Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Eva Cook Interview

Becky Bailey: 1990, I'm in the home of Margaret Casey, and I'm going to interview her mother. My first question Mrs. Cook, what is your full given and when and where you were born?

Eva Cook: I was born in Rush, Kentucky out...outside of Ashland...

B: Uh-huh...Okay, and what year was that?

EC: That was um...1918, October 31.

B: Okay. And what was your maiden name?

EC: Eva Bates.

B: Okay.

EC: B.A.T.E.S

B: Okay. Where....where your family, was uh...your parents originally from Kentucky?

EC: They were all from that area...around Ashland...in fact, I think my daddy was the only one that came up here.

B: Uh-huh...Okay, what did he do for a living?

EC: Miner. He came with Fortune Coal Company.

B: Uh-huh. And was this to the Matewan area did...

EC: No, that was in Hardy, Kentucky, just on the Kentucky side.

B: What was your mother's name?

EC: Her maiden name was McCoy.

B: Uh-huh, and what was your father's name?

EC: Bates.

B: And what was his first name?

EC: Salmon. He always...he always used...Salmon Hesley, he always used S.H.

B: Uh-huh. Okay, how did they meet do you know?

EC: I know, they were from the same area...down at uh...they lived on farms outside of Ashland...they probably went to the same church.

B: uh...huh What church was that, what religion was it?

EC: I believe it was Baptist, because my mother was baptized in Baptist church when she was eighteen, she told me.

B: Uh-huh. Did they ever talk about when they went to school, do you know how long...how long they stayed in school when they were little?

EC: Um...they had eighth grade in McGuffy books, and that's about equal to I don't know what now.

B: You wouldn't, do you remember when they were born, or how old you were when you were born?

EC: I got that up home.

B: Okay.

EC: Howard and mom, she died in '80 let's see, she was eighty-eight. So uh...

B: 1895, Okay. Where your parents the...the same age or was there...

EC: My daddy was about three years older.

B: Okay. And you where their first child?

EC: No, I had a older sister.

B: Okay, older sister.

EC: That died when she was sixteen.

B: Did she get sick or...?

EC: No, she had blood poison on her face...Of course we didn't have antidoles or anything.

B: Uh-huh. What had happen did she have a accident?

EC: No, it was a pimple like thing and she picked it...and she got blood poison.

B: Um...Okay, how many children was in your family?

EC: There was six, they'd lost a baby two years old, and my sister was sixteen years, there was four of us grew up.

B: Uh... Did the baby get sick or?

EC: I think he had uh...uh-huh, what was that? it wasn't (Daughter, Margaret Casey speaks:) it was like a shingles,

EC: it was like uh...(Daughter Margaret Casey speaks:) some kind of a rash they said if it went all around his body it would kill him...I can't remember what it was, it was some kind of uh...skin rash. Daughter speaks: somethin'

B: Okay, did any of your uh... parents uh...brothers or anything did the fight in World War I that you know of in the first World War I?

EC: My dad was to leave and he got a deferrment [sic] until I was born, and the war ended...while my mother was in bed with me....in November. Then, I don't...they just allowed him a couple months or something 'til after the baby came.

B: Uh-huh. Did they ever tell you about the influenza epidemic of 1919?

EC: Uh-huh.

B: What did they tell you about it?

EC: My mother was in bed with and she said uh...course the hearses was hor...horse and buggies with lanterns, and she said that uh...so many people died, they would bury them after dark...and take 'em when...you...when you saw that coming with the four lanterns and the horses you knew it was an influenza death, and she had it while she was in bed with me...but she got over it.

B: How long when you say she was in bed with you, how long was, did you have a difficult birth or?

EC: Back then, they made you stay in bed ten days or so.

B: Uh-huh. Do you remember anything else they'd make women do when they have a baby, like did they have to cover the babies eyes or anything like that to keep light off of 'em or did you ever heard of that?

EC: No, I never heard of that.

B: Okay, did she have a mid-wife or a doctor?

EC: They had a doctor that use to come, in a horse..a horse and buggy.

B: Uh-huh, Okay. Did your father ever tell you about when he worked in the mines, this would of been in the early years, did they use mules and things like that workin' in the mines?

EC: No, it seems to me that, he did all kinds of work inside of the mines but, uh...I can remember when he went to work about 4:30 in the morning, I don't remember what he did...he had...I don't remember what he did...he had, I don't remember, I don't remember if he had, I remember what he ever did.

B: What did he think about the union an...and stuff like that?

EC: He belonged to the union...but, it was already established when we moved here, so he wasn't in any of this uh...he just joined, he was I think it was at Cabin Creek...Uh...up above, near Charleston. And uh...he was already, the first time I heard him mention the union he was already in the union.

B: Uh-huh...Do you remember when that would of been because they unionized up in Cabin Creek before they got...

EC: Down here...

B: tried to get it down here...

EC: I don't know what year it was. I just know they had, when he moved up there they had a lot the company had to let a man go, I don't know what year that was, the company had let a man go and he moved in that house, and there were some sort of argument about it...and the man said he didn't, reckon my dad didn't belong to the union, and he said and that's when he told us he already belonged and you know, belonged up there.

B: When did you all come to this area?

EC: Well, let's see, I have to have a pencil. (laughter) Uh...I say it was uh... I can't remember, I couldn't of been over 4 or 5, so uh...it would of been about sixty-eight years ago...at least.

B: What are some of your first memories of this area, you were such a little girl when you came here, did you come by train or?

EC: We use...that's how we traveled, we...were on the train,

B: Uh-huh...my mother use to tell me stories about traveling on the train, gettin' water and stuff like that what do you remember about those train rides when you were little?

EC: Well, we uh...I know one time we went to see our grandmother, at Grace, Kentucky and we had a coal run, I believe it was and cross the ferry, at coal road to...to go to Ashland...Um...and then uncle had bought a Nash car...and that's what we traveled around from Hardy to Williamson and to Pikeville in the area.

B: Uh-huh. On the train was it long enough for ya'll to pack lunches, or was there food on the train to buy?

EC: What did...what did they call 'em they didn't call 'em bus boys.

B: Porters.

EC: They came through the train with uh...food...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and they carried it on the train. I don't remember carrying anything.

B: Did you start school here in Matewan?

EC: No, I started...started school, I started at Hardy, and we moved about nine times...and the last year went to Williamson, I went to Chattaroy and change the district to Williamson, I went to Belfry...Uh...

B: Why did you move so much during the Depression?

EC: Well, the work got bad, as soon as, the work got bad, work got bad, my dad wouldn't stay 'cause he wouldn't uh...because he thought all the W.P.A. and the C.C.C. and all that was charity......But he moved to where he could make a living.

B: Uh-huh... Was that still workin' in coal or uh...?

EC: Coal, uh-huh.

B: During the Depression we heard men would work maybe two or three days, every pay period two or three days every couple weeks, how much work did your father get?

EC: That's what he would do he would work, and he...alot of times the people, the work would be so bad, they'd go to visit families that had farms, part of the family or some and uh...he would double back, they call...and he'd work the day shift and the night shift and maybe the third day. Uh...take all the days he could get...

B: Uh-huh....Okay.

EC: and I can remember, when it was it was, when they didn't have... when they was beggin' to work. But, my mother sewed and she sewed for other people and she always made some extra money...She always had a few dollars...

B: Did she make your clothes?

EC: She made all of our clothes.

B: Uh-huh. What kind of outfits did you wear when you was a little girl?

EC: Oh, this like this, cotton dresses, and she, I can remember fabric was about oh...19 cents a yard, sometimes 15 cents, and uh...and she would buy enough to make everybody dresses.

B: I don't suppose little girls wore shorts back then. Why was that? (Telephone rings, it's unintelligible if she answered).

B: How 'bout uh...shoes, my mother said children didn't...got their shoes takin' away from them for the summer, did you wear shoes during the summer?

EC: Oh sure we had shoes, we always had shoes, I remember that, but we...we couldn't wait for the first of the May so we could go bare footed, Alot of kids went bare footed early. My first memory was a doctor up in Hardy, and I had Diphtheria, when I was eleven...but he always, I can...that's the first doctor I can remember, but he was...we always had a doctor up close.

B: Do you remember being sick with that? What was it like?

EC: It wudn't fun it was, I...I thought I had a cold or sore throat or something, and when I got home...I...the teacher sent me home from school, I shivered, and by the time the doctor came he said it was Diphtheria and uh...and I was in bed my eleventh birthday.

B: Uh...How long did you stay in school did you graduate from high school?

EC: No, uh-huh...I stayed the second year, I finished the first...

B: Okay...Why did you leave school?

EC: Well, it was, at the end of the Depression, I had a chance to get a job and I pleaded with them to get a job, and go back the next year...And uh...my dad got killed before Christmas that year...

B: Uh-huh. Wha...Was it an accident, how did he...?

EC: He was killed by the train...

B: Uh-huh. Was he walkin' along the track or?

EC: Well, we lived behind the tracks, up at North Matewan, you know, where the track comes up and all those houses...we lived back there, he crossed over and went to the grocery store, and on the way back they blocked the train and he got killed. Now, it would be one of those million dollar lawsuits...then it wasn't.

B: Did your mother get any kind of help or?

EC: No, uh-huh, we didn't ask for anything, the um...(Daughter Margaret Casey speaks:) Three weeks before Social Security went into effect)...he was, it went into effect, the first day of January, and he was killed in December.

B: So did you, when you went to work, did you help support your brothers and sisters?

EC: Yeah, we all, uh-huh. And my brother worked uh...after school and on Saturday...at a service station, and we all worked, we all did.

B: Uh-huh...Where did you come to work when you first went to work?

EC: In a grocery store, in a food market up, up at North Matewan, it was up at North Matewan then...

B: Uh-huh, who owned it, do you remember?

EC: Uh, there was a man from Huntington, tha..that was Mr. Bill Dial and a man from Matewan that was, they was partners, uh...Mr. Lean(?).

B: Uh-huh. What did you do, where you a check-out girl, cashier?

EC: Well, we did all, you did everything then, you helped clean the produce and you did whatever had to be done...

B: Where did they uh...I'm sorry go ahead.

EC: but, after so long, by the time we moved down town...I did mostly the register.

B: Uh-huh, Okay. What kind of products did you all sell back then?

EC: Everything, all kinds of groceries and produce, meats.

B: Where they all brought in by train?

EC: Well, by then we had a lot better transportation, you know we had trucks...our produce people all of our produce was brought in by truck.

B: Uh-huh, Okay, did...did the meat come from around here locally, or was that brought in too?

EC: We had the Armours company in Williamson and they, they were the meat distributors, and we had swiss...and we had uh...Montgomery's had a produce company...the...the father of the man the owns Montgomery store now...(Daughter tells Eva to tell Becky how she got back and forth to work and how much you made a week). Well, I worked at North Matewan for a long time, 'course that was real close, but then I walked from Matewan to North Matewan...and we...we'd be there about eight we got off at six. But we had breaks during the day and hour for lunch...

B: Uh-huh... How about on the weekends, I heard the stores down town were open pretty late at night on Saturday nights?

EC: Ten o'clock on Saturday night, uh-huh, we we're just open one night late and then Sundays, nothing open Sundays, I think everything had a blue law?

B: Uh-huh. Okay, did you have to work every Saturday shift?

EC: Uh-huh. But it wudn't hard.

B: Uh...how much did you get paid?

EC: Well, I think that I started with ten dollars a week and finally after we moved down town, I got twenty, now the next highest paid girl in town was eighteen...(dollars) and uh...I know the union, our boss told us, to go ahead and sign for the union if we wanted to...and uh...but he told me not to say anything about what I made...because, I already made the...union wage was thirteen dollars.

B: Uh-huh. Who was the next highest paid girl in town?

EC: Uh...her name was, I guess it's alright, her name was Pansy Willis and she worked for Shaffer Brother's and had been workin' for a long, long, time.

B: Okay, when you all moved down town, do you remember the names of some of the stores that were down there at that time?

EC: Well had a Shaffer Brother's and Nenni's were there...and at one time we had a Kroger's...

B: Uh-huh... Where was that?

EC: It...was uh...I can remember if Kroger's moved out before Margaret was born or after...It must of been, you know where the old Post Office was?, were the bank is now...(Margaret speaks: unintelligable) it must of been the first one this way so that would of been the Hope Building, I believe it was, I don't know if it was the Hope Building or not. Some other people could verify, some of that...some people that's uh...

B: Uh-huh, okay...Was Frank Allara's theatre there then,

EC: Yeah the theatre was there. Um...I don't know what year it was, I went to, to the movies when, before I was married, and I was married at nineteen so it was there a long time.

B: So you got married in 1937? Okay, um...was that Mr. Cook?

EC: '38, 1938, Um-hum...

B: Okay.

EC: Um...Um...

B: How did you all meet?

EC: Well, I think he stopped at Lucille's house to tell Mrs. Urias that his girlfriend was here from Tennessee...then after that he called me.

B: And this was on the telephone, did he call you or uh?

EC: No, he..can...uh...we didn't have a telephone, until, and there was only two telephones in North Matewan, I think...at that time you didn't have, there wanted any on Pigeon Creek, but he came down or sent me word or something...

B: Uh-huh...What did you all do for dates when...when you all dated?

EC: Went to the movies.

B: Went to the movies.

EC: That's all they would let us do.

B: Was his family from this area?

EC: His family, they were all from Wyoming County. They lived in Wyoming, (unintelligible)...

B: Uh-huh, Okay, Um...how long did you work did you work after you got married?

EC: Uh-huh, I worked, uh...Margaret was born four years, after we got married, and I worked until I was pregnant.

B: Okay, did you uh...quit work because you got pregnant?

EC: I quit, being you didn't go down around town pregnant, big as a cow. Kids don't pay any attention to it nowadays, but back then you didn't.

B: Uh-huh, Did you tell your boss that..that's why you were leavin'?

EC: Eventually.

B: What happened...I mean?

EC: Well, I keep makin' excuses why I wasn't going to work anymore, when he said, uh...wanted me to work part-time and uh...I just keep makin' excuses and finally one of the men of the bosses said, he guessed that's what it was, he said if its twins name it Mr. Layne's name was Harmon by that time Mr. Burnmeister in Williamson owned half of it, and his name was Horse...he said if it's twins name it Horace and Harmon, I was embarrassed to death.

B: Was that...why...did women just not discuss, being pregnant?

EC: I...I don't know, you didn't discuss it...it was sort a of private...it was a personal matter, by the time you carry a baby nine months you got used to that, but when young you...

B: Uh-huh...what did you know about uh...kinds of facts when you were growing up, how did girls get told about the facts of life, when you were growing up, was it was open as it is today?

EC: Oh, heaven no, you...uh...my mother, and I'd love to have that book now because it was an oldie, it was really better plan. It told, and she got for my older sister, she let me read it...

B: Uh-huh, that was uh...how old were you then?

EC: Well, I had to be at least twelve, 'cause my period started and all that, I had to uh...go to her with everything.

B: That was pretty progressive back then to show you a book like that. Okay, how about when...when you got pregnant, did uh...did uh...did you go to the doctor to find out that you were pregnant or did you? Okay, what kind of test did they run back then?

EC: Very few, they just took all the, 'course they took all the, very few...they just took all the 'course they checked all the vital signs and everything and uh...the day of your period and so on and they just examined you. Um...and that was embarrassing...

B: Uh-huh. Did uh...you have any problems, any complications giving birth?

EC: Margaret was a had birth but it was not we really didn't have any problems she was fine and so was I. (Margaret said she got too fat). Almost ten pounds.

B: Bowling Ball.

EC: Eat, eat your eating for two, you know, uh...and I knowed better by the time I was pregnant with Dave he weighed 6 pounds and a quarter.

B: Uh-huh. Did the..did they doctor come to the house or did you have him at the hospital?

EC: I went to the office for my exams but Margaret, I had decided that, but a lot of people did. So, I'd be home, alot of people did, I thought I'd be sittin' right up with my baby I didn't know, but uh...I went to the hospital with David.

B: Uh-huh. How long where you in labor with Margaret?

EC: Well, it started about eleven at night and she was born at four the next afternoon.

B: Was the doctor with you the whole time?

EC: Well, we didn't call him til almost six next morning, you know...When you start you know, you not sure that's what it is, it's starts with a back pain.

B: Uh-huh...okay. Some of the stories I know that you know, one story had told you about her mother or grandmother killing Indians in this area?

EC: I don't know that she killed 'em...she didn't put it that way, they came here from Virginia and settled up, up at the Alley Farm, I think some of the Alley's are still living, that could be checked, too. She was a old old women when she told me. But she said her daddy built a cabin or a house of something up there and he had to go back to Virginia for something and she could remember her mother shooting at the Indians across the river, it's real close to Matewan it's uh...you know where Frank Smith's big house is? Just on the other side of the log house, that...that the cemetery is in it, the Alley Cemetery.

B: Okay.

EC: Um...and she was the one...she told me that.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: She, now when we first bought that property here there was, we could the kids would find arrows and uh...arrowheads, and all kinds of that stuff out there next to the river, and Mr. Ferrell that we...use to own this property..said that the Indians use to be here in fact, I have heard the rumor that there might be a burial ground but if there is I've never....we never seen any evidence of it have we. (Margaret said: other than the arrow heads and things like that.) You see, we bought this from the coal company, they bought it from the Ferrell's or Hatfields originally, I think it was a Ferrell.

B: Uh-huh. How long did your father work in the mines..Oh I'm sorry that's right he got killed. I knew that. Okay. Something else that (tape cuts off)

B: Do you remember...what's one of the floods that you remember?

EC: I believe the flood in '35, if I had known you were coming, I have a box of old pictures, that I haven't gone through but some of those flood pictures might be in there.

B: The flood, that you mentioned in 1935, was...?

EC: I think it was in '35 because I think that was on the pictures, by that time they dated 'em...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: you know, the film was dated.

B: Was that North Matewan?

EC: Uh-huh...

B: What's the name of the creek there?

EC: it's Mate Creek.

B: Mate Creek. Okay, How bad of a flood was it?

EC: Well it didn't do damage like, it was just property damage mostly, because we had the hills. Um...the end house you know like the road bridge is here and the railroad bridge is here, there's a row of houses over here...and this end of the house the creek comes this way, underneath the bridge underneath the railroad bridge, and it took this end bridge out, 'cause we, we went down there, but I can't remember where we stood, evidentially it didn't get all the way up in the road 'cause I don't remember, uh...But I can remember when it flooded in Matewan, upper end of town. For years, it flooded upper end of town and didn't flood down town...In fact, '77 was the first flood downtown? Um, it use to get around B & C Oil and there at the underpass but it didn't get down town.

B: Uh-huh. Howard Sutherland said that his father's market flooded in...in '57 was that the end of town that would flood?

EC: (Margaret Casey speaking:) Yes, yes it did flood in '57, it got Hope's and all of 'em, that was then the Buskirk buildin'.) Oh, yes it did...Was it '57 or '63? (Margaret Casey speaking: Don't you remember we got the Nenni's down to stay with us because...) yeah, but that was lower in town though, see what we're talking about is up in the business section. (Margaret Casey, it got into Hope's and all those buildings, it got into the lower part the back side of the theatre, which is my building). (Margaret Casey speakin') uh...all the Buskirk buildings, it didn't get on the other side of the street, '77 was the first time ever in that side.

B: Okay. How long would it take to clean up after these...these floods, do you remember?

EC: It didn't take, of course we didn't know anything about it until we went through it, seem to me like they'd be washing streets in about three or four days wouldn't they and they would be getting cleaned up better...you know, better fast up town but it took uh...where we were about a week or more, we had...to get our basements, where all the river mud went into the basements, you know, and settled. It settled upstairs in '77, at least a week to pump the water out, we had to shovel out the mud and carry it upstairs, 'cause the drains wouldn't work, It's uh...it took Hope's quite a while, cause I remember washing machines in our wash tub. After '77 they condemned wash tubs didn't they. Merchandise.

B: Why was that, where they afraid of disease?

EC: Everybody said that it was dangerous, typhoid, when I heard that some of the doctors said that you have to drink alot of the water to get the typhoid, you know...children got it on their hands and rub it in their mouths,

B: An...uh... I'm sorry go ahead.

EC: I know that everybody took that shoot after '77, we didn't because, did you? (speaking to Margaret Casey who responds) I didn't.

B: Uh, did the Red Cross come in, in the earlier floods, or just the '77 flood, or did you all get any outside assistance?

EC: I don't really know, about the earlier floods. Did they? (Daughter says, in '57 they were here) they did...they certainly did after '77 flood.

B: Uh-huh. How well do you remember Mr. Nenni, because a lady was telling me today that he would travel around and take people's shoes and resole 'em for quarter a pair of shoes?

EC: Well, I think, by the time we knowed about it, he used to go up Red Jacket, and Peddle and I heard Ran talkin' about it the other day, and he...Ran would would ride with him when he was boy, and it...I think he put soles and heels and they just looked like new shoes for about seventy-five cents at that time...but see, he had been doing that long before...that was...that was Eddie's grandfather, now...that's up town now. Eddie, might know more about that...

B: Uh-huh...What about Pauline Roberson and uh...Aileen Phillips are roughly your age, why did you go to work in the store instead, of the bank?

EC: Well, we lived at...we lived at North Matewan, and there was no way to travel...And the store was straight across from our house. In fact, I never applied anywhere...except there. By the time Margaret was born, we was in business up there, we put in saw mills.

B: Uh-huh. How did you all get that started?

EC: Well, we just, Ran was interested in lumber...and we traded my car and I got, when I didn't drive anymore, when I was about eight months pregnant, (unintelligible). So we traded and uh...we put in a sawmill and we took her with us. We had a little trailer, it was a little camper trailer...down on the job, it was down Laurel Creek. And we'd go to Charleston to buy supplies, and they, sometimes we would make two trips a day...that was before seat belts or baby things in the car, and I stood her up on my shoulder and (unintelligible).

B: How long of a trip was it at that time for?

EC: Laurel Creek, you just went up, like the new road goes now, you went from Laurel Creek, to Danville...and into Charleston, you went in by the Capitol, you didn't uh...you didn't go all the way around, go in by the Capitol and go around the boulevard and down...and buy most of the supplies and equipment in Charleston...

B: Uh-huh. Did um...did you all get any financing from the bank did you all get loans or anything?

EC: Yeah, sure...

B: Who did you deal with at that time, was Dan Chambers still?

EC: We borrowed from The Matewan Bank, when Dan Chambers was here the biggest loan we ever got was from (?) Bank in Charleston. I think we borrowed a hundred and fifty thousand. And paid it back in about two years.

B: How bought uh...was it lumber that you produced, who bought it off of you?

EC: Well, we...he'd buy boundary timber, by everything on this mountain, you know, and that's what we had, up near Charleston, we had a boundary timber, and of course they....when we applied for a loan it went straight through, I guess it was uh...we had good credit rating. And we got a good boundary timber...and so as we shipped the material, we sold it all over...we bring....alot of it went to the shipyards. And a lot of it went to North Carolina to a furniture company...We sold, all the poplar and the good, and the material that could go on ships...to the government that went to Norfolk.

B: Was Mr. Cook drafted or?

EC: Uh-hun, he tried to volunteer but the work was essential...he was turned down.

B: It's amazing the company done so well as young as you all were and you...you got, did anybody have to co-sign for you?

EC: No, I don't think we ever had a co-signer...if we did, I don't remember ever anybody signing for us...The first, I guess the first loan we borrowed three thousand dollars from the Matewan Bank and Dan Chambers was there and he said, and he told me I'm going to let you have it but actually, I know you'll pay it back...to build a home usually, I don't know, you were supposed to have a water supply to start with...when the fires on...but he said he was going to sell it on a expenditure. (Daughter says she also bought and paid for a house before she was 20 years old too.)

B: How did that happen?

EC: Well, the man was going to let the bank repossess it...and it was just a little house at North Matewan, and it uh...and my boss, I wasn't old enough to sign for a bank note and my mother didn't have a public job, so he said, if you wanted it now, he said he would go ahead...I was going to buy it...my payments was less than the rent...so we bought it in a little bit, a room...let's see we built two rooms in the back and the back porch...it was real little, but we managed with it, it was just us, mom and the kids.

B: So uh...when you were first married then, your mother and your dad, did you have any brothers or sisters living at home?

EC: Well, I had...I had a brother and two sisters.

B: Was that common for a young couple to live with some...with one family or another?

EC: Well, I'd say some people did you, but we uh...when we first married, we were at a apartment, we didn't stay maybe three or four...few months at moms, the house I bought was put in mom's name and uh... 'cause I was just about, I wasn't nineteen...and so we rented in the stone house where Varney's where I lived up on the hill...we lived upstairs in that and we still lived there when Margaret was born. That was two apartments upstairs so it's three family house then...

B: Uh-huh.

EC: that's well, he played at...Willright, Kentucky, I think it was up Cabin Creek...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: I don't remember if they had a ball game team on Pond Creek...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: but, Fortune Company was a good company and the money was good back then.

B: Uh-huh...so your father was a baseball player?

EC: Uh-huh, he played for Ashland, and I got one of those pictures...I got a picture of Paw on one of the Ashland team, that somebody had sent to mom in only a few years, (unintelligible)... and he had an a offer then to play for the Reds and mom didn't want him being a ballplayer.

B: But, uh...alot of times him being a ballplayer would help him get a job?

EC: Well, I'm sure it did, if...most of the coal companies had teams, you know, but Red Jacket would bring boys here from everywhere and they played for Red Jacket...I don't remember when dad played ball much, I can remember the ball, I can remember his uniform...

B: Uh-huh... So you don't know what position he played or? Okay.

EC: But it might be on that paper...

B: Did it help him get a easier job? Because Venchie Morrell said that Red Jacket would give the ballplayers an easier job.

EC: I think they did in later years...I mean my dad worked like a...he worked all the time....from what time I can remember.

B: Do you remember um.. how far back it was when he actually went to work in the mines, how old he was when he went to work in the mines?

EC: But I'd say, I have no idea...I don't know. Some of his brothers work for Armaco Steel in Ashland, most of them stayed down there in that area...but he, but he uh...I think made enough money, so we...he went to the mines.

B: His brothers that worked for the steel company, did they keep a farm or did they?

EC: Their grandparents stayed on the farm...my grandparents, uh...and as the children grew up they got jobs, you know...

B: Uh-huh. Okay, Margaret was uh...telling me before dinner that uh...your husband has been a Republican all of his life, and that hasn't always been easy in...in Matewan, especially Mingo.

EC: My family too...

B: Uh-huh...why was that? Did they ever explain why they were republicans instead of democrats?

EC: I don't know. My father was a hotheaded Republican. Actually the democrats, it was pretty even until, I say about Rosevelts [sic] ... administration. A lot of people begin to lean toward democratic, because if you got a job around here, you if you could depend on politics, you had to and made it easier on us not depending on anybody else for work or jobs. He always had a wonderful time at election time didn't he? and he, his and my friends, all of our friends (are) nearly all democrats, but he never works against anybody, see he just works for them,

B: Uh-huh... Was your father still living when Roosevelt was first elected? What did he think about Roosevelt, I know a lot of Republicans at the time didn't care for Roosevelt, did he say?

EC: I don't think the younger generation realizes, but we're still paying for the debts, that's why we are so far in dept. Uh... I think...I think, I know my dad loves, maybe maybe at least once, because he said that it bad time to change presidents...It...it was during the Depression...It was a bad time, there wudn't very many times I know of him crossing his ticket...

B: Uh-huh...What uh...Margaret was telling me before dinner about some of the practical jokes that use to go back and forth with T.I. Varney and Mr. Cook...?

EC: Oh, they used to...they thought it was very funny, one time they had a uh...they caught a mule and they put Republican signs on his side, didn't they? and send...took up to Varney when we lived up on the hill and we did too. They took it up there...they just had a good time. They were always friends and also uh...I know one time Ran come home and said T. Varney paid for the lunch, it was election time and he said he...come on I'll pay for it, let the Democratic party pay for it or somethin', they got to sayin'. They had there lunch on a democrat or something like that.

B: Uh-huh...What uh...Mingo politics has been kinda notorious, for some of the things that have gone on, I was wondering if people like, Noah Floyd and that and Blind Billy Adair and those kind of people made Matewan kind of notorious around the state did you ever meet any of them?

EC: Uh-huh, I've met them but uh...those things go one they, they go on today...they go on from the presidential level and down, I don't know, um...Noah Floyd has always been nice to us. And we were different party and I really don't know anything about it, (Margaret speakin': we never did treated the same) Uh-huh, (Margaret: people maybe, maybe they were treatin'...it did depend on their state of their jobs.

B: Okay. What about some of the, since you worked in the downtown area, we've being hearing from people that the police, really ran it kind of tight, so there was a curfew for the kids at night do you remember?

EC: We didn't live downtown, we lived at North Matewan...of course the kids then...we weren't home when we got off of work...I think they did have a curfew, one time...I don't think it effected us... because we lived at North Matewan and we didn't, and we let, they were never out any way. We could go to the movies, but we always went with, you know...grown-ups, or somebody, three or four of us...after we were teenagers...parents were alot more strict then, children...

B: Uh-huh. Say when you were a teenager and...an obviously you were workin' but uh...my grandmother is a bit older than you, but say she wasn't allowed to cut her hair, because only fast girls only cut there hair, where there any kind of things like that around here, did...did you start cutting your hair, when you were...?

EC: I never...I always had my hair cut..my mother cut it when I was real young...because I had stiff, long thick hair, and it was... my sisters now had, let her hair grow and they had long curls down to here...but uh...she always keep mine cut.

B: How 'bout smokin' or drinkin' where girls allowed to smoke and drink when you were...?

EC: My mother said a girl...she use to have a little ugly saying, that a girl that would smoke would do anything (Margaret speakin': she let me smoke in later years) but then she outgrew that...and drinkin' was unheard of...among the people I know.

B: Uh-huh...Was this out in public or even in home?

EC: Even in home, why I never, had a drink in my life.

B: Okay, Well, last summer, Mrs. Nowlin told me a story about dressing up, I think it was Halloween, and sneakin' in one of the bars to see what it had looked like in town, so I guess then, went to the bars in town and uh...and uh...?

EC: the bad girls.

B: I was going to say did the...I don't suppose the nice girls....

EC: the fast girls...I don't know, I never...

B: What kind of customers did you have in the store, where people come in that were off the train or...?

EC: No, we had people from all over, uh...there was a lot of Red Jacket people, there was a lot of people from Phelps and up the Kentucky way...that came uh...alot of people came to the bank, 'course they bought their groceries while they was there.... In Matewan. The bank, there was a bank there at Freeburn and the Matewan bank bought the Freeburn bank...so it was uh...everybody came to Matewan to the bank...

B: Uh-huh. Where they still issuing script at that time, did...did you take....

EC: Well, the coal companies did...

B: did ya'll honor script or did you just take cash?

EC: We...uh...sure we took the script, but we took it at a discount...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: We gave seventy-five cents to the dollar...

B: Uh-huh... Okay.

EC: We were...(unintelligible)

B: Uh-huh...This was a story about the different kinds of girls on Saturday night, who sat on the porch swing?

EC: That's where we were...(laughs)

B: Was that the good girls?

EC: Well, yes...that was just a remark that was made.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: (Margaret speakin': Tell her the remark again because she didn't have her thing on). She said, I don't know, I don't want to, but my baby sister said all the whores are havin' fun but the decent girls are sittin' on the porch,(laughs) of course they laughed about it because it was so unusually for her to sayin' anything like that.

B: Where uh...I think it was, Geradine Reems before she passed away, and Edith Booth was were tellin' me that big bands use to come and play in the 1930's and '40's.

EC: Uh-huh...

B: Do you remember any of those, where their dances did you go?

EC: I didn't go, some of the girls did, (unintelligible)

B: Why didn't you go?

EC: they would never let us go to anything hardly, we could go to a movie, (Margaret speaks: and sit on the porch). We go to the movie on Sunday afternoon if we went to church on Sunday morning...

B: Uh-huh

EC: if we didn't feel like going to church, then mom said you can...can't you won't be able to go anywhere else...

B: Uh-huh. Okay, what about I know for a long time Marcum Bardberry was wearing alot of make-up, but make-up, was a big girl allowed to make-up?

EC: I was sixteen, I couldn't wait to get sixteen so I could have lipstick...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: 'course I had a little before then.

B: How, did you sneak it and wearin' it?

EC: Yeah, sure I wear...I wore it...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: then you can...tangy, tangy made a lipstick that was kind of pink...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: I'd get that.

B: Did you like music when you where young?

EC: Uh-huh...

B: What kind of music did you listen to?

EC: Buddy (?) was on the radio, that was all you hear on the radio.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: There was a awful lot of country music...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: it was awful bad, awful bad...(unintelligible, the tape has a scratching noise.)

B: Um...let's see, do you remember the first time you watched television?

EC: Uh-huh.

B: What...what do you remember about early television?

EC: Well, we got the...a television in '51...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and they gave televisions earlier than that, in the flat countries you couldn't get here, you would have to check it around to the top of the mountain...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: they put antenna on top of the mountain...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and I believe it was Bill Collins that let us hook up to his line, when we first got ours. (Margaret speakin': and we had the third television in North Matewan) I think Cleatis Collins had the first and maybe Bill had the second and maybe ours was the third I don't remember, Russell Varney had one, he may had the fourth one. But it was, it wudn't good it was covered with snow.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: Uh...(Margaret speakin': the wind blow and the wires would go together and) we had to get somebody on the line...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: If a branch blew off and touch lines.

B: What shows did you watch?

EC: Well, I don't remember much, uh...what were some of the shows? (Margaret speakin' Howdy-duddy).

B: This is tape two and we are discussing early television, you say Jack Barr was one of your favorites?

EC: Uh-huh, we always, stayed up to watch Jack Barr...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: he was great.

B: Uh-huh. What kind of you moved around alot, and you have different live style, but did women ever use herbs, or anything like that to...to doctor say little children with colds, do you remember anything like that, did your mother do any of that?

EC: Uh-hun, my mother, she...she always doctored us when had colds and things like that, you didn't take your children to the doctor ever time they had a cold...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: she had uh...but she doctored with caster oil and castoria...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: uh...vicks and that kind of things...

B: Uh-huh....

EC: I don't remember her doctoring...

B: Uh-huh...Did she ever uh...my grandmother would never drink use whiskey and toddies for when the babies where teething, did...did you mother do any of that?

EC: I don't remember that, I remember uh...I...I had think they used paragory(?) for the teething...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: when uh...I believe mama just rubbin' it on that babies gums...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and it had, I don't know it's like uh...kinda of numbing effect...

B: UH-huh. I know you say you weren't', you were just an infant, plus, you all was just in this area when the Matewan Massacre and all that happen, but you would of known some of the people that were involved as they were older, Do you remember Clare Overstreet?

EC: Uh-huh...

B: What do you remember about him?

EC: He was the postmaster, when I knew him. I never knew anything about, I didn't even know until that book came out that he had anything to do with the...during the Massacre...

B: Uh-huh. Okay...

EC: Until I saw those pictures.

B: Okay, he really didn't, from the picture he doesn't look like he fit in with the rest of the bunch, he looked kind of mink and mild mannered, what kind of man was he?

EC: Was a nice man, a good man. Uh...

B: Venchie Morrell remembers Reece Chambers from when he was a little boy, was Reece Chambers still in town?

EC: I don't him...

B: Okay. How about Broogs Chambers did you ever know him?

EC: Uh-huh, yeah he was the Sheriff.

B: Uh-huh...Some of the police here in town, I've...I've interviewed Dutch Hatfield, what kind of police chief was he?

EC: I guess, okay, we never really had any trouble with the law, but Dutch, Dutch is a good man and....

B: Uh-huh...

EC: Ernest was a good man. Dutch was a...after Ernest wudn't he? Ernest was chief police...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: (Margaret speaking: Dutch retired from the mines he had been retired, when he took that chief police job).

B: They, they...he...he told me that, he said want to you want with an old man like me, being police.

EC: I guess he done a good job, I...uh...heard of any criticism...

B: Uh-huh, okay. How 'bout some of the restaurants in town do you remember any of the restaurants that were in town when you were workin'?

EC: They had, it used to be called the Matewan Cafe, wouldn't it? and it was uh...they sold beer, which let me it...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: but alot of the men, ate lunch there and I know one time we went over there and she had oyster stew and Mr. Doyle(?) said it was fabulous to go over there and he paid for our lunch and we went over there...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: some of the girls and had lunch...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: but it was um...and they had...in later years they had...a place called the knotty pine, did anybody tell you about that?

B: Uh-huh, just a...

EC: and it was nice and clean and Matewan is not big enough to support...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: there's not enough traffic in Matewan to have a really good restaurant.

B: Uh-huh...did you uh...I think it was right across the street, some people, I think a lot people forgot it because the similarity in name was the Matewan Restaurant was I think the protestors to the I think the Knotty Pine, it was in the building were the Development Center is now, supposedly it would of been in the '40's, do you remember that?

EC: I don't know.

B: Okay, so you say the Matewan Cafe because they served beer, you wanted suppose to be in it?

EC: Well, well at...we didn't go, you know, there was always, the Matewan...is there anything there now is that where Steve's Place is? (Margaret speaking: Silver Dollar). That's where Silver Dollar is straight across the street, down a little ways and uh...um...(Margaret speaking: that store was in there either where the Development Center is or in where Little Vience is, the building, the Hatfield building...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: ...that's where she worked in the store.)

B: Oh, okay.

EC: Duey Hatfield had what was the name of his? (Margaret speaking: Smokehouse) Yeah, Smokehouse I believe.

B: The other name I think was Duey's Playhouse or something like, or Duey's Place or...

EC: Well, Smoke...they might have called it Duey's Place but I think it was the Smokehouse,

B: Uh-huh, okay.

EC: Grace is still living, have you ever talked to her?

B: Uh-huh, I interviewed her, she was my first interview last summer.

EC: Uh-huh.

B: She was a really sweet lady. Okay, how 'bout uh...did you know any of the Burgraffs that were involved in the Massacre, Fred or?

EC: You know what, I don't...uh...what Burrgraffs was in the Massacre?

B: Fred and Albert, I think was it Albert?

EC: (Margaret speaking: Daddy's) he's daddy's second cousin. He daddy's...(Margaret speaking: Albert is the one that is grandpa's cousin) Uh-huh. Was he in the Matewan Massacre? (Margaret speaking: Yeah, he was a defendant in the Matewan Massacre) Well, I didn't know that, have you talked to Houston?

B: Uh-huh...

EC: Well, he's got a son...

B: I think we talked to....Okay, What did uh...did people ever mention the Matewan Massacre in town when?

EC: No, years ago, I use to hear, when we first moved to North Matewan, that Mr. Collins had gone to the penitentiary, that's the one that Bertha told you all about her daddy.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: But that's, it was all over when we came here, and it wasn't talked about much was it? there just brought all the stuff out in uh...later years.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: (Margaret speaking: after all the defendants were dead).

B: Uh-huh....

EC: Uh-huh.

B: What about he Hatfield and McCoy feud did they ever talk about the Hatfields and McCoys or anything like that?

EC: Uh-hun, I use to hear, Lucille's grandfather was uh...he was a little boy when that was going on,

B: Uh-huh...

EC: ever once and a while he mention it, but actually I don't, you just didn't hear much about it, until you started reading lately.

B: Uh-huh.

EC: And my mother was McCoy, but it's a different family...

B: Uh-huh.

EC: uh...

B: Okay.

EC: And did Pauline, you...you interview Pauline Roberson?

B: Yes,

EC: Well, her daddy was a union organizer.

B: Uh-huh. Can you think of any people that we should interview other than the people that you've already mentioned? Say any old timers, that you remember that might still be living?

EC: I don't know, what about Mad(?) Allara?

B: Uh-huh, okay we got her...

EC: Have you talked to her?

B: Yes, ma'am. Okay.

EC: She's uh...they were McCoys too, was her family in the feud? (Margaret speaking: there...there, de...yeah, their descendants of Randall McCoy).

B: I think the uh...

EC: Josephine Hope did you talk to her?

B: Just last week.

EC: See, they...they were here all during that time, I don't know that uh...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: I say that their families were here during the, the uh...not...not the Hatfield and McCoy thing 'cause that was a generation before them.

B: Uh-huh.

EC: But, I'd say, some of them may be here during the mine strike.

B: Uh-huh...

EC: Jenny was, Jenny was a little girl, (Margaret speaking: Did you talk to Jane Bowes(?)).

B: Not on tape, she wouldn't let me tape her, okay. I guess my last question for you then is, it's hard for people now to imagine what Matewan use to look like, what was, what did Matewan look like in...in the 1930's, say when you were a young women, working?

EC: Well, the...where the bank, where the new, where the road goes down, the Baptist Church is the first building, now isn't it, this side of the Baptist Church was flower shop?

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and there was uh...it was too different was it?

B: We just heard, people us to say oh, it use to be a pretty little town?

EC: Oh it was, it was lovely and all the lower end of town it was beautiful homes and upper in town, was real nice homes...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: but they all, evidently they all took them down one at at time after the flood, they were just...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: they were ruined, after the flood, so many times. The lower end of town was where Rose Chambers and the Nenni's and the Methodist Minister and uh...and what was that? Inn(?) family, Hoskins, there was several homes down that way, real nice homes...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: and they were all flooded so many times there, in fact, Nenni's built the big house, that was a new house wudn't it, Margie lived in the other house, they had a smaller house, the end house on the right, as you go down, and they built a big brick here...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: just almost at the...just below the end of the bridge.

B: Uh-huh, what was the uh...was the bridge still a swinging bridge when you were first in Matewan or had they put in the new, old bridge? The bridge that got lost in the flood.

EC: It had to be the swinging bridge because they, you...use to travel to Buskirk in a boat...

B: Uh-huh...

EC: everybody, uh...I was thinking about Euliss(?) Moore and his wife but, those girls they know all about it because, how many of them are still here, Virginia Wicker, if you could talk to her she lives at Red Jacket.

B: Uh-huh. Well uh...unless we have anything else to talk about, uh... Mrs. Cook, I'd like to say thank you for talking to me this evening.

EC: Alright.

B: Okay. Thank...

EC: Your welcome.

B: Thank you.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection