Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Charlie Elliott Interview

Becky Bailey: Matewan Development Center I'm interviewing Charlie Elliott on July the 10th at a quarter 'til four in the afternoon... no July 11th, 1989. Mr. Elliott the first question I have for you is when you were born?

Charlie Elliott: I was born in 18...1887, September the 22nd. A long time ago.

B: It sure was.

CE: Uh-huh.

B: And you say your family was from Floyd County, Kentucky?

CE: Yeah, that's where my people come from, Beaver Creek, Kentucky over in that area.

B: And what were your parents' names?

CE: My daddy was named John W. Elliott, and my mamma was Sary (Sara) Bell Elliott. She was a Hall before she married. I'm a half Hall.

B: Okay. How many brothers and sisters did you have?

CE: Five sisters and no brothers.

B: Five sisters and no brothers you say?

CE: Um-hum.

B: You were the only boy?

CE: Only boy.

B: Where did you fit in your family? Were you the first baby or were...where did you fit in? Which number child were you?

CE: I was the second one.

B: The second child.

CE: Uh-huh yeah.

B: Did your mother have a mid-wife to help her with the birth or...When you all were born did you know who came and helped her have the baby?

CE: Yeah I believe at that time it was, yeah. Uh-huh.

B: Okay. When did you all come to this area?

CE: In nineteen and three.

B: Nineteen and three. Okay. And before we were talking on tape you said that your father came cause of the lumber business?

CE: In the lumber business yeah.

B: Would you tell me about that?

CE: He worked...he worked for Long's Pole Lumber Company up here at Iaeger. That's in McDowell County.

B: And what did he do for them?

CE: He run the mill. Run the steam mill. Yeah didn't have no electric in them days you know.

B: Um-hum. How did he learn how to run that steam engine?

CE: Well they owned own. His daddy they sawed for his daddy. Over in...back in Floyd County. They cut timber over there.

B: Who was his father?

CE: George Elliott.

B: George Elliott.

CE: Uh-huh. And he was the busiest old man uh...and when we worked this track out up here they transferred to Honecker, Virginia and we worked our track out there. Cut the timber all out there. That's where I started school. That's been about...uh-huh...I was about six years old then and they worked that out and the company got a track of timber down here, down here below Matewan and they worked that out. Worked all the timber...that finished up the timber... that saw mill went out of business.

B: I don't know anything about the timber industry so when you say they worked it out what did that mean?

CE: That meant cutting all the timber out. A big enough you know. Have to wait on another to growth and that takes seventy-five years.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: Yeah.

B: Okay. Now what kind of uh...what they'd do with the wood they cut? Was it pulp wood or...

CE: Oh, it's lumber. You know they shipped it, they built houses out of it. Shipped it into the cities. Yeah.

B: How much...do you know anything about how much your father made working for the lumber company?

CE: How much he in them days?

B: Uh-huh.

CE: Well we had an old book over there, now they made about twenty-five cents an hour.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: Yeah. Worked ten hours a day got two dollars and a half. That's what they started off with. And they may have raised him along a little bit I don't know you know.

B: So uh...you say you started school in Hon...Honecker, Virginia?

CE: Honecker, Virginia yeah. And the school teacher's name was Edith Davis, a little blonde headed woman. (laughing)

B: What do you remember about your school days? What stands out in your mind about what you would do at school?

CE: What I did at school?

B: Uh-huh.

CE: Well, I don't know hardly what I did do. I didn't learn much. (laughing)

B: Did you all play games?

CE: Yeah we played base.

B: What was base?

CE: I don't know. I forgot hardly how you did play it. But that was our big game of playing base. Uh-huh, we played softball you know. Just like all other kids.

B: Did you all let the girls play or was it just the boys?

CE: Oh yeah, the girls all played, yeah buddy. Uh-huh.

B: How long a day...how long was your school day? How long would you stay in school? Like how long did you stay in school? Like what time did you have to be there in the morning?

CE: Well we went uh...had to be there about eight o'clock and stayed 'til four. A hour for dinner.

B: Did you all have to go home to get that or did you carry it with you.

CE: We had to carry a little lunch with us. Oh yeah, back in them days uh-huh.

B: What kind of lunch did you get?

CE: Uh...just whatever they had to eat. I forget what it was. Maybe beans and taters I don't know. It's not like it is today. You didn't have no light bread you had to have biscuit bread and back in them days.

B: Um-hum. Okay. You say you knew Sid Hatfield. Let me ask you about him right off. What did you know about him?

CE: Well uh...he's a little older than me. Uh...he was out of school...I went to school with his youngest brother. He lived up on the creek he lived about three miles from where I did and his daddy uh...was the only pensioner in this country. He was a Civil War veteran and they drawed a pension. They had money they lived good but what other people did you know. And uh...he was a good moral feller. I never did know too much about him. Seen him many times. Growing up he was uh..really uh...a good nice guy he give you a smile ever time you looked him and I never knowed him doing anything bad 'til he got to being police down here at Matewan you know that was in later years. I wasn't here I was working over in Logan when that Massacre was down there I wasn't even here. He was alright, you know a ordinary man.

B: Now when you knew him was he a young man? Had he already become a ladies' man by that time?

CE: Oh yeah he...yeah he was about twenty-five years old uh...he was a lot older than I was. Now I don't know too much about him. Cause I hardly ever seen him. I went to school he might have been a working somewhere you know. Hardly ever seen him then 'til later years when he got into being police here at Matewan. I've seen him a few times. But he was always a nice guy.

B: Okay. So when you were in school...when you were a little boy did you ever play marbles?

CE: Yeah...buddy it played marbles. Yeah buddy what you are a talking about? Use to play for nuts. You'd have three holes and we'd shoot in and go in them holes you know. And if you got beat you had to put your fist down in there and they'd shoot it against in there it hurt.

B: Did it hurt?

CE: Yeah it hurt.

B: Did you lose much?

CE: I was pretty good. Pretty good marble player yeah.

B: Um...How many years did you go to school?

CE: I just went to the eight grade. Then I went to work. I went to work in 1917.

B: What'd you do?

CE: I helped uh...my daddy at uh...the power plant where they made electricity for mines. I shoveled the coal in them boilers to make them hot. Worked...I worked hard buddy. Shoveled about two ton of coal a day. Yeah. And I've been a working...I've been on that payroll seventy-five years and still on it.

B: Really? How come?

CE: A lot of people retired when they were sixty-five years old. I call that a dirty word, retirement.

B: Really.

CE: Still working. Still a butcher, I cut the meat here. Used to cut a lot of it here.

B: How'd you learn how to cut meat up?

CE: Well just picked it up and uh...salesman helped me...they give me a big chart you know show the cuts and show how to cut it. Then I ordered me some books and uh..studied and I made a pretty good butcher. Been a butcher for 49 years. Uh-huh yeah. And I worked in the mines twenty-nine years.

B: Really?

CE: Um-huh.

B: Tell me something what do you remember about World War I?

CE: Well I wasn't quite...I was just ready...I was eighteen years old when it...about the time it got over. I remember me and my daddy was uh....we had to register I was eighteen and he was forty. Yeah that's how close I come to the war. It got over me before they called me. So I missed the first World War and I missed the next on I was too old for the next one. I didn't want to go no how.

B: How come?

CE: I'm afraid of them bullets.

B: Did you know anybody did any of your friends go in the war? Did you know anybody that went to World War I?

CE: Well yeah. I knowed a few around here. Knowed them...didn't know but one that got killed.

B: Really.

CE: Uh-huh.

B: What was his name?

CE: Buddy hey uh...that's got me right now. Charlie was his first name but I cant' think of his last name. Lived down below Matewan here.

B: Did any of your friends ever tell you about what they saw and did in the war? Did they ever talk about it?

CE: Oh, they told me few of them tales but I didn't believe half of them. (Starts laughing)

B: Really. What kind of things did they tell you?

CE: Oh, they tell me abut being down in them dug outs and take their uh...cap and stick it up there a way and a German would shoot a hole through it.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: Yeah.

B: Tell me something how did you all celebrate holidays when you were a little boy? What did your family do on holidays? Say on Christmas?

CE: Well buddy we had an old Santa Clause. I loved Christmas. Yeah I thought there was a real Santa Clause 'til I was really grown back in them days. Yeah we'd get little toys. We'd hang up our socks you know. You ever hear tell of that?

B: Yes sir.

CE: Had a big fire place you know and hand them up on each side boy they'd be full of candy and things you know. Oh buddy, couldn't hardly go to sleep.

B: How about the fourth of July? Did you all celebrate?

CE: Oh, that was a big day. Yeah buddy we took that...hung up a flag all the time and we had...got ice cream and pop then.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah buddy what are you talking about? That was the days. They don't uh...they don't celebrate it like that now. They have that everyday you know. We just got things like that uh...when they come around once a year.

B: How did you all get ice cream? Where did you all get it from?

CE: Well uh...these big old kegs they come in and had crushed ice around it...hid (it would) hold five gallons. They made it down here at Williamson and they'd ship it up here on the train. And we'd come down there and meet it on that morning uh...from car or wagon. Didn't have no car way back. And it'd last all day with that ice in there. And then later years we got that dry ice. You could put it up...I sold...they put off a hundred and twenty-five gallon one fourth of July morning. And people come...five o'clock they'd come here and getting it go picnicking you think about that.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: And it would last all day. They had dry ice around there... keep it out in the field any way you want to all day long.

B: What kind of pop did you all drink?

CE: Well strawberry and well we liked strawberry and orange. Boy it was good. It was a lot better than it is today. We thought I don't know might not have been. But I don't drink it now. Ain't drank a bottle of pop in ten years I don't guess. Nah.

B: So how old were you when you got married? When did you get married?

CE: Well I got married one time when I was about uh...twenty-five or six years old. But I didn't make a go of it. Then I married another time uh...19, and I was 37 I believe. Married and didn't do very well with it. Been married twice and ain't got naryin' now...dead. Maybe just made an error of marrying.

B: So did you get...

CE: Well I got in trouble by the first girl and married her accidentally...had to marry or thought I did in them days, you know didn't live with her and this other one I lived with her for about twenty-five or thirty years. She was staying with her mommy, her mommy got sick she lives five miles across the hill here and when her mommy died she give her the place. She stayed there two or three years with her before she died, I stayed by myself. And uh... whenever she died she give her the house and she got a beauty shop in it and she stayed over there and beauticianed, I run a little store and she's beautician. She stays over there and I stay over here. That's been thirteen years ago since she...so I ain't got no woman and don't want any. (laughing)

B: Can't say that I blame you. So you say you had to marry your first wife?

CE: Had uh...two children one of them died. One of them got killed over in France, yeah. Other one...they live down in Huntington way down...a hundred miles down there. Still a living...she's ninety years old (he's referring to his wife). She will be at her birthday. And sick too just about dead.

B: So you say your son got killed in France, was that in World War II?

CE: Yeah, my boy yeah by her. Yeah he'd been to a party and uh... naturally he got to drinking and he come back...a boy told me his buddy was over there with him said he come around a curve and there was a basement? built of logs and things on the back side of it and he hit it so hard and he slammed agin (against) it and it killed him. Having a wild party.

B: Did anybody you know get sick during the flu epidemic that followed World War I?

CE: Oh, they died I dug graves everyday buddy...every day I had to help dig graves. They died four or five at a time around here every night. Yeah I knowed plenty of them.

B: Did you get sick?

CE: Yeah, I had it but it didn't hurt us. We never lost a one of our family. Just like having a bad cold.

B: What did you all take for it. Did you all take any medicine or did you just go...

CE: Yeah we had a doctor...yeah Dr. Coleman. He was a good doctor. They'd come to your house then and they give us medicine for it. Just like having a cold it wasn't bad with us. But boy quite a few people died it was awful.

B: Did they...

CE: They'd find whole families dead you know uh...out in the area.

B: Did that happen around here where they found whole families?

CE: Yeah all around yeah. All around.

B: What time of year did it hit here? You say you dug graves I guess it wasn't too cold then if you could dig into the ground?

CE: No, it was in the summer time like (when) most of them died. I remember it was warm summer time. Lasted quite a while you know. Yeah I work in the mines of the night and dig graves of the day. Somebody did yeah.

B: Do...did you actually go into the mines to work? Did you ever go in and pick coal? I mean or...

CE: Oh Lord yeah, I worked in the mines. And done dangerous jobs too. The good Lord was with me I never did get hurt. But Lord I had close calls. The good Lord was with me or I'd done been gone. Oh, I'm a telling you. Nobody knows and they wouldn't believe it.

B: Slate falls or something like that?

CE: Slate fell one night and I'm telling you I never paid much attention to it then. That's been several years ago but after the good Lord in latter years that all come to me what he had done for me. Went up in a place and was a coming back out drifting and it dark. You couldn't see your hand in front of you. And they put timbers across like that and this slate had fell down resting up here and just solid, and I'm telling you, I could have reached out and touched that uh...and it was just a sitting down in that motor it took me a minute to got out of it. I don't know how I got... that's the only time I ever did jump out of one. But I got out of that thing it just filled that place up right where I was a sitting. Oh, just like that...He saved my life. Oh. Is nothing impossible for the Lord. Hit a took me a half minute to get up out of that motor sitting way down in...couldn't see nothing. Just slammed up plum full of that rock it was about two inches thick. Oh, it would a left a sound bone in me hunt-uh...(meaning no).

B: Lets see you worked in the mines twenty-nine years?

CE: Um-hum.

B: What mines did you work in?

CE: Well I worked most right here in Red Jacket. Worked there twenty years, right there. Then I worked four years in Pike County when I first started out working yeah.

B: Were you a union man? Did you belong to the union?

CE: We didn't have no union back in them days. That's from the big Massacre was down here they tried to organize but they failed. They didn't get it going.

B: Okay. Did any organizers ever try to talk to you about joining?

CE: Well now later years now Red Jacket there was organized union when I quit work. I quit work in 1940 you know.

B: Okay.

CE: Yeah.

B: What do you remember about the coal mining wars? What ever... did you ever...

CE: Oh yeah, I lost a real friend in that coal...in that big war. Now buddy they really had it them days. Over...back over in Logan County and over in them back counties you know. Yeah, he got killed....Captain Brockus was the captain that shot him. Uh-huh. I don't know what the trouble was.

B: Say...

CE: Said it was on the railroad crossing. Right there...had the troops in there you know. They was big gangs of them. Them union men you know and they had to have an army in there to control them. I don't know what he done to the man but he shot him and that's... lost a friend in it.

B: Do you...what was your friend's name do you remember?

CE: Uh-huh. It was Greer...Greer he was a German born...but he was...American born but his daddy was from German. Bill Greer.

B: Bill Greer.

CE: Uh-huh he was a young feller he was about twenty-seven years old something like that. And Captain Brockus shot him.

B: Okay. Some people say they can remember the troops trains going through when they were bringing troops in to uh...put down the miners. Do you...what do you remember every seeing anything or...

CE: Doing what?

B: They brought...some people remember when they brought the troops in you know when they brought the troops into Logan the army troops.

CE: Yeah.

B: Do you remember any of that?

CE: Well that was the time that they had that big uh...old Mother Jones she was a women that uh...made speeches all the time it happened then. That was when they were trying to organize first time you know. But they failed they never got by with it.

B: Did you ever see her?

CE: Yeah. Heard her speak one time down here at Matewan.

B: Really?

CE: Oh yeah, she a little bitty woman. Had the ugliest talk that ever was...cussing and a talking.

B: Even during her speech?

CE: Yeah...in her speech, yeah. They'd be the awfullest lot of people...right when you come through that underpass that there's where she...they had a big platform there and that's where she talked. Man they's people everywhere.

B: Uh...you say...did she well did she cuss? Is that what she did?

CE: she talked yeah she'd make a speech, buddy, talk about the operators you know how dirty they was and so on. Yeah, old Mother Jones.

B: What did people think of, what she was talking about?

CE: Oh, they though that was it you know. You know how anyone for the union. Miners they was somebody. Old Mother Jones.

B: What did they think about her being a woman and making speeches?

CE: I don't know. She was from over there somewhere or this side of Charleston some coal camp over there. They brought her over here having a big blow out here you know and you got her to come over here...she was a speaker. Man she was in the awfullest gangs you ever seen come to hear Mother Jones.

B: Oh really?

CE: Yeah.

B: Well what did people around you say when they heard her cussing? Did anybody ever...

CE: Oh, they didn't care. Yeah, they was a cheering her all the time.

B: Did uh...did miners talk rough back then? I mean what kind of...

CE: Yeah, them miners was rough. Got half-cracked most of them... about like myself.

B: Now when you first went the mines you all...did you wear the soft cap with the carbide light?

CE: The old soft cap uh...well I didn't use the oil in it. Just before me we used the carbide lamp. Carbide put in it and it made a good little light. Yeah we thought and then it...I worked on it 'til the batteries come in. We had a battery then and had to wear it on your belt. Made a good spot light.

B: When you went in to the mines did uh...did they have people come in and put the timbers or did you all have to do that yourself?

CE: Oh, that was the crew that done that. The timber men and it was their job. They timbered it up, ahead of us you know. Yeah.

B: What other...can you tell me some about the equipment that you would use? What kind of equipment did you use?

CE: Oh, we had the rough kind back them days. We had...had to push a drill...well the first one you had to wind it up like that they bore you hole. Post drill with an augur like that to wind it up to bore the holes. Then later we got an old big...weighed a hundred and fifty pounds and you had to carry that thing and it would feed the thing, electric you know. Then after that we got a little what they call a butterfly drill one you pushed yourself. You just got to get it...me and another man and we'd push it in so you could bore the holes. Then after that they got them on a track. They'd run up there...boy you didn't have to do nothing but work a switch. All of my work was manual work. Hard. Yeah hard work. And I worked night shift most all of the days.

B: Okay, just a quick question about Mother Jones again, do you remember what year it was when you saw her speak?

CE: Well I'd say it was nineteen and twenty.

B: Nineteen twenty.

CE: Uh-huh. Yeah, well as I remember it was in the fall of the year like. It was warm. 1920.

B: How about Bill Blizzard? Did you ever hear anything about Bill Blizzard, and Frank Keeney and them, the union organizers?

CE: Yeah I know a little bit about them not much. Not much about them no.

B: How about Charlie Kiser? Did you know Charlie Kiser?

CE: Charlie Kiser I growed up with him. He was my number one friend, buddy, Charlie Kiser.

B: Really?

CE: Lord yeah what are you talking about? Yeah.

B: Well tell me about him if you would.

CE: Oh, Charlie was a good guy, buddy. He was a smart bird he was a German boy. Thoroughbred him a German yeah...Kiser. Uh...yeah he had a Ford Agency down here. I bought a Ford from him one time and he done my mechanic work...I bought a T-model Ford 1923. Oh, me and Charlie was real friends, what are you talking about?

B: Now was...he was involved in the union too wasn't he?

CE: Oh, he was a big official of it, buddy.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah, big organizer. Yeah, he made big money out of it. Yeah. he went to...went to Detroit and worked a while down there and he win fifty thousand dollars while he was down there. Win fifty thousand dollars, a sweepstake. And he come home and brought it home in a grip. Yeah, in an old suitcase. Fifty thousand dollars of cash, yeah. And he bought his girls automobiles, he had grown girls then. And spent that money, boy, he was a good man I swear he was. But, he finally took up with a pretty gal and left his wife. He married a German girl over there. That was pitiful, I always pitied...oh they had some fine girls. Yeah, I knowed them Kisers', worked with them yeah. They was alright, good people.

B: Did people say anything to him about his name during World War I? You know, you said that he was a German boy did they uh...

CE: Oh yeah, he was uh...his daddy come over here and was born and raised over here but he fought maybe some of his cousins over there you know he didn't know none of them, but, his people all lived over there. Yeah, his daddy come here and married a American girl and raised a big family. Whole big family of boys.

B: Okay.

CE: Yeah.

B: Are there any stories that you could tell me about him, I mean what kind of person was he? What kind of things would he do?

CE: Oh, he was just a very friendly coal mining boy when I knowed him. And he was a good talker. He would uh...uh...would have made a good lawyer. He...I had a case or two in court about something other and he'd represent me. He's a speaker you know. Yeah. Oh, he was a smart guy.

B: I uh...I interviewed his sister Stella Presley.

CE: Who?

B: Stella Presley his sister.

CE: Yeah.

B: and she said that she used to write out the relief checks for him. For the people that lived in the tent colonies...

CE: Yeah...yeah.

B: Do you ever...what do you remember about the tent colonies?

CE: Yeah, I don't know much about it honey that was down here at Matewan and I lived uh...two miles over in Kentucky.

B: They never...they didn't have any of them over there? They didn't have any people living in tents or anything?

CE: Not over there no hunt-uh...no.

B: Okay. Did you ever come to town when people were living in tents? Did you ever see them?

CE: Yeah I come down but I never went up there went up there where they lived. I'd come down to Matewan once in a while.

B: We uh...we heard one story about the Massacre and you may have heard it or you may have heard opposite to it, we heard one story somebody said that the night of the Massacre people in town celebrated, did you ever hear anything about what happened the night of the Massacre?

CE: No I don't know.

B: Okay. Uh...let's see how about uh...the Great Depression? What do you remember about the Great Depression?

CE: Now it was a rough one honey. It was a rough one.

B: Did it effect your work in the mines? How many days a week did you work?

CE: We got two or three days a month. Oh yeah.

B: What company were you working for then?

CE: I was working for Red Jacket then.

B: Uh-huh.

CE: Red Jacket Coal Company. Oh, it was a hard time buddy.

B: What did people think of Herbert Hoover?

CE: Of who?

B: Herbert Hoover the president?

CE: Oh, he got the worst name on earth. Oh buddy, and buddy if they'd...all of them a went a long them a went along like him it would have been good our government would have been in good shape today. He didn't believe in that give away you know. They marched on him up there and everything, The White House. He wouldn't give them nothing. Let them live theirself the best way they could.

B: So...

CE: When Roosevelt went in he give...giving them things you know. Everything opened up then. I don't know in it...the Government's been in debt ever since you know that. And we're in bad shape today.

B: Uh-huh that's true.

CE: Yeah, you know it.

B: So what did you think about Roosevelt?

CE: I think he was alright. He done a good job yeah. He helped get the social security in so everybody could lay them up something to live on you know. He done good, he's alright. Of course I was a republican I never did tell much who was for a democrats you know ways I love them all but you know. Always thought we had the best platform makes a difference in them they got so they all go on the same way now a days don't they?

B: Oh, it sure does seem like it.

CE: Yeah, got all of these giveaways, give that money away. Heard they gonna give Poland a hundred million dollars. And us with all that money in debt. I don't' know why...how they can do that, do you?

B: No.

CE: Government donated them a hundred million dollars, what Bush is gonna try to do now he's put it before Congress I don't know whether they'll let him do it or not. I don't see where they could borrow it at.

B: This is always seems like we heard that it's been a democratic area since the turn of the century?

CE: It is. Oh Lord yeah, yeah.

B: So what has it meant to you to be a republican down here in this area?

CE: Cause my Daddy and Mommy was I guess that's the way everybody is you know. She was a democrat and he was...my daddy was a republican. And I can remember they used to try to get us you know my mommy would try to get us to change over to her and every time they ask me what I was I'd say repub...I was a republican. And it's just like religion and everything else you know with children generally grows up like their parents.

B: What does it...what did it mean to you to be a republican? What does it mean to you? What do you think being a republican stands for in this area?

CE: Well anymore I don't even study politics. No I...I hate politics. I do...I don't go for it.

B: How about you...say your mother was a democrat and that was before women could vote right?

CE: Oh, I'd say it was...it was way back there. Oh, they'd argue around I can remember when me and my sister we'd begin to notice little things like that you know but she finally turned over and uh...the time they got ready to vote she was a hundred percent republican.

B: Oh, your mother was?

CE: Oh yeah.

B: So did your mother vote when it was finally allowed for women to vote?

CE: I don't believe she ever did no. I don't' believe she did. Wasn't too much interested when they got older you know like it was back when. What's your politics your mommy and daddy?

B: Republican.

CE: Sure enough are they? Alright well good honey. Yeah you are my real friend.

B: Um...

CE: Oh, I loved democrats my best friends are all democrats. Yeah I never paid much attention to politics nor religion or nothing else.

B: How about your sisters? Did your sisters vote with the women?

CE: Oh, yeah all of them vote yeah they vote. Uh-huh.

B: How about some of the stories that we've been hearing about this town is stories about bootlegging. Did you ever hear anything about people...

CE: About what?

B: About bootlegging?

CE: Oh Lord, uh...I've hauled their stills took them and hauled them up to the head of the creek and go back and get them. They'd go up there and work at it. I had a car and nobody didn't have one when the first cars come out around. I got the first ones. Yeah up on them old big stills and take them up there and then go get their moonshine.

B: Who was that?

CE: Yeah and take them somewhere where they sold it. I didn't fool with it I was just their taxi. I had a little T-model and I taxied go up and down the rough places. I don't know I liked to drink a little bit of moonshine too then.

B: Who made the best moonshine around here back then?

CE: Oh, everybody nearly was into it. Oh, mankind and they had uh...where they made this uh...they had uh...let it sour you know chop crack corn and stuff they made it out of and they dump it out, they'd come hogs...them hogs would smell that a long ways and they be gangs of them come there.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: And they'd eat that and get oh...they'd go to fighting one another.

B: The hogs would?

CE: Yeah. And them revenue men they got them a little black Poland Chiny (China) sow to go with them. And they'd go up a holler and she could go wherever, if they was a still in that hollow they'd go straight to it buddy. Yes sir.

B: That's how they would found the still?

CE: That's the way they found the still. Yeah.

B: Do you remember any of the revenue men that come through here?

CE: I...no I didn't know of them down here and some of them a talking down here about certain places. Down here at Stringtown that's down here below Matewan here. Now he said that was a bad place to come in I said they'd shoot us nearly every time. In the woods you know. Two or three places said they'd shoot and then they'd have to leave. Go to shooting them hid back in the woods you know. I heard them talking down at the barber shop one time.

B: Uh-huh. Uh...did you ever know any of the moonshiners by name?

CE: Any of the what?

B: Any of the moonshiners by name?

CE: Oh, Lloyd Sullivan, yeah, Estil Sullivan he was one of them and uh...uh...the main one was uh...oh where's my mind it's so slow.

B: How about Jim Backus?

CE: Who?

B: Jim Backus?

CE: Now Jim Backus I...he was into but I didn't know much about it. He lived over on this creek and I live over here. Now he's a nice guy I've know him all the day. Uh-huh Jim Backus he was a fine...did he give you some information?

B: That's...he told the other guy that's interviewing people he told him about...

CE: Oh, he's my friend. I've been meaning to go off and see him since he got since he got out...he's wife's dead and a sitting on that porch waiting to die...just about like me.

B: How about that uh...Glen Allum robbery? Did you ever know anything about that? Did you ever hear about that?

CE: Just to know when it happened is about all honey and my brother-in-law come in here from Ohio on Number 16 train come by about five o'clock and he...there was a down train come down and he got off of 16 and this local train had stopped all along the road. Them men was in that they throwed them up in that baggage car and he said they was just piled up across one another and that blood a running out the doors and him just a coming to this area that's the first thing he saw.

B: Was it Italians that they shot?

CE: Italians yeah. There was a feller that come in here about a month ago and he had a paper and a picture of that thing, Buddy where they captured them. They fixed a little place back up in the mountain and hid. Revenue men they come in from everywhere and went up there and shot every one of them and killed them. It was a great shock for him, he was just piled in there he said "just throwed cross ways and everything". Yeah. Just for a little old payroll.

B: Yeah. How about the uh...somebody said something about there was an Italian here in town that people thought was the ring leader of that.

CE: The what?

B: The guy that was the ring leader of that was an Italian here in town, did you ever hear anything about that?

CE: I never heard that honey. No I didn't know them. That was about eight or ten miles up this way where that happened. Yeah.

B: How about Aunt Carrie's?

CE: The what?

B: Aunt Carrie's, did you ever hear of a lady called Aunt Carrie there in town, she was a black lady? She was a bootlegger, did you ever hear anything about that?

CE: Who?

B: Aunt Carrie.

CE: Oh, Aunt Carrie yeah...yeah I knowed Aunt Carrie. Yeah, Aunt Carrie was a bootlegger. And her man worked at the same mine I did. He was a fine little guy to. This woman was here while ago her daddy killed him. Mary's daddy killed him. He was a police then. Yeah, went out there to arrest him and uh...John Henry didn't want to be arrested. I don't...they got in an argument and he beat him to death with a pistol. Oh my...my it was the finest little dark feller you ever knower to.

B: Was this Aunt Carrie's husband?

CE: Her husband, yeah, uh-huh. Yeah I know Aunt Carrie. She run a bad house there in uh...sold whiskey, yeah.

B: When you say a bad house what's does that mean? Did she have girls there?

CE: Had girls there, yeah, uh-huh, yeah.

B: Were there ever any more of those places in town? I've heard that the uh...that there were some other places in town that had girls?

CE: Yeah I can't think of that place now. It fell...it was an old dilapidated building. It's been so long ago I forgot all about them. Yeah just a little bit before my day much. Yeah.

B: One of the uh...the interviews talked...John this guy that I'm here with he talked to a guy about a Sheriff Ackerman or Police Ackerman getting killed in a shootout in about 1912, did you ever hear about anything like that?

CE: Oh, way back, yeah it was just a little bit before my day yeah. I remember hearing him talk about that. Now Jim Backus could have told you more about that buddy.

B: I think he may have been the one that did.

CE: I'd say he did cause his uh...his sister-in-law...his sister-in-law's was uh...husband come in this area about that time. He knowed all about that. Yeah, Jim could tell you about...and I just heard them talk a little I don't know a thing about it.

B: What was this town like when you were a young man when you were living here?

CE: Well it was just a little uh...plank buildings there where this uh...big long brick building there...Bob Buskirk building. There wasn't nothing but plank buildings and uh...sidewalks was out of placks and wagons and mud was knee deep out in the streets. You'd get stuck anywhere without a team. Couldn't hardly cross the road the mud was knee deep. I used to go down there when I was a boy my daddy he'd go in...Saturday night he let me go to town with him once in a while. We lived a mile away from town and he'd be in them places a drinking and I'd be running up and down the street waiting on him be about eleven or twelve years old you know. And everybody in there a drinking and a talking and you couldn't hear your ears you know.

B: What kind of places in town did he go to when...go to drinking?

Do you remember any of the names of the places that he used went to?

CE: There was just two saloons in Matewan. That was Bob Buskirk's place and Matewan Liquor Company over on the other street. Yeah that was the last open saloons, they soon voted them out 1913, something like that, they voted them out yeah. Hey, Lordy it's a lazy day you know it? About to go to sleep a standing up.

B: Oh goodness. Let me ask what kind of religion? What's your religion? What were you raised in?

CE: Well uh...Baptist church. Yeah Baptist. And is your folks religious people?

B: Kind of back and forth.

CE: Well my mommy was but my daddy in late year and me to but I've been uh...a good believer all of my days ever since I was born I was a good believer. And then the later days it just come...the good Lord got to working on me honey and I got saved and I...they's many different kinds of religion you know that. All kind of holiness and all kinds. But that good book is all I want. That good book and all at once...reading that Bible one day and he said uh... God said you must be born again. He said you must be born again. Well I read about Nicodemus you know that was a preacher back in the Jewish days. He asked Jesus that you know what to do to get to heaven you know. He said you must be born again. He thought he had to be born physically you know. I got born the right way buddy I read over that many times. Just then it'd get set on me buddy it said uh...it come on you just like the wind a blowing and it leave you just like that. And buddy it come on me and I'm a telling you everything changed every way in the world. I've read that book all of these days and you know didn't get too much out of it, couldn't remember it. But after that every line of that meant something or other buddy. And I'm a (starts speaking to someone else) What do you say buddy-o. (continues on with the interview) I've been regenerated and born the spirit of God and I've become a living son of God now. I'm a living son of God and it's impossible for me to backslide. I can't even think wrong now. And I can show you right in that book where it says it to. And you hear them talk about people sins a little bit every day but now me I don't sin. Now I used to love the girls...loved wine and women that's it but now I love them...I love you especially,

B: thank-you

CE: But otherwise I don't think nothing about. Adultery and that way a talk. No it took all that away from me and I'm just a waiting and he'll come. Heaven and earth shall pass away and what I mean it will come down here a burning.(phone rings) With fevered heat it will burn up every thing that will melt just run into a lava and melt. I'll float out of here and meet Jesus right up there. Huh?

B: Then good.

CE: Float it out of here. I'd love to see it I've been here so long. Wasn't for my friends and people I'd just love to see him come any minute. Yeah.

B: How's your health been all your life?

CE: My what?

B: How's your health been?

CE: It looks like it's pretty good. I've been here ninety-five years and still a working right now.

B: It must be pretty good.

CE: I ain't seen a doctor in fifty years.

B: Oh, my goodness.

CE: Wouldn't have seen then but I had a little cyst come on my little toe and it got pressing out and I had to have it cut off. I wouldn't have seen him. Never had a check up in my life.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: Don't know what a check up is. I eat properly and I take care of my health. Un-huh. I talk exercise every morning. I spend an hour when I get up a getting fit.

B: Well good for you.

CE: I eat food I've got my same uh...school girl figure all my life. I weight a hundred and fifty-two or three pound never no more than that. Now ain't that a pretty good record?

B: I think so.

CE: And I don't want no doctor. I don't care when I get sick I want to die.

B: Let me ask you some names of people and see what you remember about them?

CE: Of who?

B: About some people...I'm just gonna name some names and then if you remember something about them you'll tell me.

CE: Yeah uh-huh.

B: Okay, how about Ed Chambers?

CE: Now I know'd very little about Ed I did. Very little not enough to tell you anything. And I was down in uh...in a army camp down at Louisville, Kentucky when that happened. And I know we went out on a tour it was five hundred of us and we stayed under little tents and the news had come that day and uh...a officer slept with me. Remember the moon shining and warm and he all he ask me questions on top of questions about that had happened you know all about it. I had to tell him about that strike up here you know. And I...I was down there when it happened. They'd went up to Welch here when it happened. I don't know too much about that.

B: Why were you in the army? Why were you in the army at that time?

CE: I was in a military training down there only thirty days. Lord they give us the main thing they wanted some troops you know. They wanted us to join. Uh...to get us down there they said bring your bathing suits and have a good time and everything and I'm a telling you they hiked us all day and talk to us of the night 'til ten o'clock.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: Oh buddy you never seen no peace buddy. Yeah.

B: How about uh...how about Mayor Testerman?

CE: Who?

B: About Cable Testerman?

CE: Oh, Cable Testerman?

B: Uh-huh.

CE: I know'd him and Lou that was his first wife when we was I was just a little boy. Up at uh...up at that lumber company. He was up there then. He was a watch fixin' he fixed watches and uh...he never worked. That's the way he made a living you know. And I remember his first wife she's a big tall skinny red-headed woman her name was Lou. I don't know what happened to Lou. We moved down here and he come down here. He'd left Lou and come down here and he had a pretty young woman. And they said that's the one Sid got to courting his wife.

B: Was it Jessie? Jessie was her name.

CE: I don't know what her name was but anyhow that was the news and she was a right nice looking woman.

B: Mary.

CE: Now the first wife I don't know what become of Lou.

B: Mary Ward said that her father got shot...that Cable Testerman shot Willard Smith over Jessie, did you ever hear anything like that?

CE: No.

B: My goodness.

CE: He might of shot him slightly but he died a natural death, Willard did.

B: Uh-huh.

CE: Uh-huh.

B: Okay how about uh...Billy Adair? Blind Billy Adair?

CE: Blind Billy I've seen him a many a time. Yeah he was a bootlegger and he had money. Uh-huh he fooled with the Board of Education and all that kind of business. He was a businessman, buddy. I know my buddy he, Looney was my buddy's name and he said uh...he'd been gone a long time and he run into Billy one night he met him on the road and got to talking and he said, "do you know who I am Billy?" He said yeah I know you Vince Looney, uh-huh, he'd never forget nothing. And he bootlegged he said he'd hide that liquor all over the hillside then hid (it would) get dark he'd get you a half a gallon at a time.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: He fooled with the Board of Education some way I know he come over here on Sunday and see him and Dan Chambers and him a talking down there he run the Board some way or another. You get a good teaching (job) you go see Blind Billy. Give him a little money.

B: Oh, is that how it run?

CE: Yeah I know Blind Billy.

B: You had to give him money to get a job.

CE: He was blind that and he had scars all over his face where he was born that way you know.

B: How about Noah Floyd? Noah Floyd?

CE: Noah Floyd ah I don't know I just heard them talk about him. Noah Floyd don't know a thing about him. Not one thing.

B: What kind of things did people say about him? Do you remember?

CE: No I sure...no I don't. But he was uh...

B: I think he was Billy's nephew wasn't he?

CE: I know. Up right now I forgot what he is...what he was or anything about him. Noah Floyd I've heard talk of him.

B: They say he uh..he was in the Board of Education to.

CE: Yeah he was in that. Yeah I don't' know anything about him.

B: How about when you were a little boy here how did people get in an out of town? Was it the trains? Is that was how people...

CE: They walked or rode a horse or a mule. Walked. They'd walked. Before we moved over here my daddy worked up here that on Saturday, worked six days a week. At dark they'd leave and they'd walk way beyond Pikeville 30 or 40 miles. They'd walk all night until next day they'd get home up on Sunday. That's the transportation they had in them days.

B: Um...it wasn't road? What kind of road was there?

CE: They'd go to short cuts they'd go across the mountains and it night that's some hard times back in them days wasn't it?

B: Yeah. How about...I heard uh...Stella Presley said a long time ago they used to bring things up on boats.

CE: That's right. That's all the way they lived. They'd uh... drift down to Ohio River down Cattlettsburg Kanawha there. Load their salt and sugar and bacon and everything then they'd push they'd have men and they'd push that boat all the way up to the head of this creek and that's the way we got sugar.

B: Did you ever see any men doing that?

CE: No that was...That was one...your little bunch a head of me honey. But there was talk abut it a lot then you know. And I worked with an old feller. He said he went on them push boats they'd drift down and push back you know. They'd pay them so much these merchants would you know for bringing it up.

B: How did they push them back? Did they go along the river bank or...

CE: Go down the river...drift that boat...ride that boat back down the river, coming back up didn't have no motor boats then you know you had to push it. Wade the water and push it.

B: Oh, in the water?

CE: In the water yes sir.

B: Did he tell you how much he ever got paid for doing that.(That seemed like it would be a hard days work)

CE: Oh, then you never made over a dollar...no time. But you could buy something.

B: How about the movies? Did you ever go to the movies when you were young?

CE: Yeah used to go to 'em Matewan they had movies there yeah.

B: What's the first theater you remember?

CE: Oh, I can't hardly remember honey but they was silent pictures you know. And I remember one little feller done forgot his name. I can't turn my T.V. on for 13 years I haven't had time.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: I read all the time. I read the papers and the Bible and everything (phone rings) I never...literature, my mail a big pile of it every night.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: I'm behind with the times. Anyhow, I was somewhere off when the talkies come in and some dude I heard him all the time and he rode up home a little old mule and turned his foot up over the saddle horn and come commenced a talking. And then I saw him at a circus after that here in Williamson. Little short feller. Uh-huh and he done got old and fat and he'd try to get off of that horse and get back on it. He just barely could. I forgot his name though.

B: It wasn't Tom Micks was it? Or...Gene Autry or any of them? Was it a cowboy?

CE: It was a cowboy a little cowboy. A little short feller. Oh, I thought never thought of, was his name that I can't even think of nothing to start with it. But it sounded so funny commenced talking you know. I was used to them silent pictures. Mary Pickford (?) and them older way back there were the stars in them days.

B: How about parties and dances? I hear big bands used to come in here like Tommy Dorsey's band and people like that used to come in here?

CE: Never did go to them honey.

B: Never did go to the dances?

CE: Nah.

B: Huh. How come do...did you never dance or...

CE: No there wasn't no dancing around here then where I lived.

B: Okay, Well I was wondering if I could come back sometime later this week and talk to you some more? I know it's getting kind of later in the afternoon and it's hot now. Could I come back later on in the week and talk (to you some more)

CE: Yeah, if I know anything else I could tell you honey.

B: Well I've got plenty of more question but I think it's getting kind of hot for us to be talking right now. So I'll call you..

CE: Here it's five o'clock isn't it?

B: Yeah.

CE: Nearly five o'clock.

B: Yep.

CE: Yeah that's alright honey. Any ime [sic] I love to talk to you.

B: Cause that way I found...

B: This is tape two of Charlie Elliott's interview from July 11th, 1989 today's date is July 12th, 10:30 in the morning. I'm at Mr. Elliott's store.

B: What do you remember about the jail? Do you remember where the jail in town was?

CE: The jail?

B: Um-hum.

CE: Yeah.

B: Where was it?

CE: It was over the back of the railroad down there where the station used to be. Yeah they had a little old jail there. I never did get in it but I ought to have been in it a few times.

B: Is that that little block building...

CE: Yeah that...that was it.

B: Okay.

CE: Yeah that was it. That was the jail yeah.

B: About how long ago? Do you remember was it...say that jail in the early '20's would you say?

CE: Yeah right in the early '20's is right, '21 or '22 along in there is when they had that jail right.

B: Okay. How about Greenway Hatfield? Do you remember Greenway Hatfield?

CE: Oh, I knowed old Greenway Hatfield, he was the high sheriff of Mingo County. Had a big farm down here at Hatfield Bottom there wasn't a house in it. It was all uh...had a big Silo over there. Had cattle all over the hill he's a good liver and he worked convicts on his...arrest them and let them work out their fines on his farm.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah there was watermelons. That was...yeah I knowed old Greenway he ruled the area at that time.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah.

B: What do you...what else do you remember about him? Do you remember any stories about he ruled the roost? Do you remember how?

CE: No, I don't honey know much about him. Just what I'd read. I've seen him a time or two. He was always big tall square built feeler. Nice looking feller yeah. Don't know too much about him only what I'd heard. Seen his farm.

B: Okay.

CE: Uh-huh.

B: How about any of the other uh...police officers in this area? We were looking for some information on the police force. We uh... we heard a story of once that the police chief in Matewan had to be able to whip everybody in the county. What kind of men would they have as police chiefs around here?

CE: Well they had some pretty bad characters they's Maynards... Maynards. They started out in Matewan and they wound up in Williamson. Uh...they moved down there and they uh...Bevins...Bev was one of their names, Bev Maynard. And uh...a Howell he was a bad man. You heard of him ain't ya?

B: Uh-huh.

CE: Uh-huh. When he come to town he'd be a drinking and policeman's all head out. He'd ride his horse right in the saloon and get him a beer.

B: Really?

CE: That's what he done. And they shot him on the corner there where the drug store is from uh...there's a back building just across the street. They shot him from upstairs. He was on...he was on the corner there where the drug store. Waylaid and shot him and killed him right there.

B: Police did?

CE: Police did, yeah.

B: How come? Do you know?

CE: They was afraid of him...they couldn't arrest him. They were afraid to approach him.

B: Un...and what was his name?

CE: Howell...Howell...Howell.

B: Okay.

CE: I can't think of his first name right now.

B: Okay.

CE: And all of his boys died about last year they woudn't [sic] finished up. They tried to be bad characters but they...they wouldn't bad no.

B: About what time was he running around in town? How many years...

CE: That was around in the early '20's.

B: Okay.

CE: Uh-huh. Oh, when they seen him come to town buddy everything got undercover.

B: Okay.

CE: That was a bad man.

B: How about the Burgraff family?

CE: Burgraff's...I knowed them all. I knowed all the Burgraff's. I knowed they had one sister and she was a bad character. She worked at a bad house down there. That's one thing right at the where you come across the underpass...where you go under....big building there....ah...now that's come to me. They run a bad house there for years. They did that too. People come there and lodge you know, stayed all night for a dollar you know. And Babe Burgraff's was the Burgraff's girl. One of them that I knowed, of the women, there was anymore of them that...the men they gambled and they didn't work much you know, kind a rough family. All I know about the them. The Burgraffs there is a few of them up North Matewan now.

B: How about...how about baseball around here?

CE: Oh it was...it was a big thing back in them days buddy.

B: Really.

CE: Yeah. Me and uh...I chased around with the doctor drinked with him a little bit. Me and him they had a...he loved baseball and uh...they got uh...game with the Cincinnati Reds.

B: Really?

CE: Yes buddy. We went me and him went to it you know. And I'd tell you what's the living truth. We thought Williamson had a good team but they wouldn't a one of them that could get to first base. They just played with 'em and they have got nothing. The Cincinnati Reds.

B: Did you ever play any baseball?

CE: Yeah a little bit.

B: Really.

CE: I wasn't a very good one. No. Hit at it and miss it.

B: How about the uh...the Red Jacket teams? Do you remember anything about the....

CE: Yea buddy they had a team too. Ah...buddy I remember that was uh....when I first started driving I had a big Rickenbacker. Eddie E. Rickenbacker. He went into the car business. He was a big flyer in the first World War you know. And I bought one of his cars and uh...Rickenbacker. And I remember a state police wanted to go up there he didn't' have no car that's back in the early days that was about 1923 I believe. And uh...I didn't' have no operators card didn't have none in them days I didn't know you needed one. The feller that sold it to didn't even tell me I did. And uh...he wanted to go up there and I had been up there and come back and I...I wouldn't take him and buddy he ask me if I had a operator's card and I didn't know what he was talking about. So he told me I had to have a card. Well I told him I'd get one then. That's what I remember about...oh everybody man they would be lined up there playing baseball. This girl here you saw her that big tall girl here yesterday her...her people was better people ball players. Her daddy and her uncles and everything man they was players.

B: Really?

CE: Yeah buddy. Yeah had good teams back in them days. Yeah they played good ball.

B: But you uh...you said your family was involved in the timber industry, did you ever hear of the I.W.W? Were there ever any...

CE: Not in this area...I know about them. I worked through the harvest uh...back in 1920's along '22, I don't know about '22 I guess it was. And they was mobs of them kind of birds. They'd lay in the parks. They didn't...they'd just work a few of them and they all eat...they's two of them come out there where we was a working. I was five miles out from a little town where we was a working and they uh...stayed there a day or two and left...slept of the night in big barracks you know a whole bunch of them. And they was hard to get along with. And uh...one of them done something to me one night and we had a little cussing out spell next morning we told the boss about it and he fired him. Sent him back to town yeah. They wasn't no good ah...them men was something.

B: Where was this?

CE: Chapel Nebraska where it was. Uh-huh I worked there through the harvest in 1921 or '22. Yeah.

B: Okay. Alright were you...a little earlier were you gonna say something else about the Burgraff family? I thought I might have cut you off.

CE: I swear honey I don't' know a thing much to tell you about them. Only I remember Babe she was a nice looking girl. Black hair medium size with a smile every time you looked at her. But they said she was a bad character. I wasn't hardly grown when they lived there. Real young boy that's a long time ago to think 90 years ago, 70, 85 or something. I'm thankful for the mind I've got. Ain't got much.

B: Okay. Well if...if you don't mind maybe I'll come back in a week or so maybe we can talk again if there is something comes up that I...else I want to...

CE: Yeah anything that you might want to think about or ask me about that I could tell you honey everything that I know I will.

B: Okay.

CE: Yes sir.

B: Thank you...Tape cuts off

B: Did you ever hear about a group of men called the wild catters?

CE: The what?

B: The wild catters? They were a bunch of miners apparently that if a boss wasn't being good to his men the wild catters would go have a talking session with him. Did you ever here of any of that?

CE: Never happened around here honey.

B: Really?

CE: No I don't remember it.

B: Okay. One of the men that I heard was a member of that group was Mose Adkins. Do you remember Mose Adkins?

CE: No. Who told you that?

B: Rex Harmon.

CE: Old Rex told you that?

B: Um-hun.

CE: I don't know where he got it at.

B: Really? You never heard that? Okay.

CE: Sure never.

B: What did you know uh...I mean how well did you know John Brown?

CE: Oh, I knowed John Brown ever since I was a boy honey. He was the finest old colored feller. He was just about half and half yeah he was mixed with those white you know. Every time I'd see John I'd run into him maybe down at Williamson and wanted to borrow two or three dollars every time you'd see him. But he'd pay you back every time yeah. And he'd go to the house and pick up your laundry you know and you'd pay him and buddy he's grab that laundry and you's hollering wait...wait...wait a minute John get it next trip...that's alright save me your business. Oh, he was the finest old feller that you ever knowed. I growed up with colored people I loved them got along with them. Never had no trouble with one in my life.

B: They said that he and Mary uh...his wife raised a lot of children.

CE: They sure did they'd take them in. Yeah raise them colored... you know colored people's bad for the man to run out and leave them you know all the time. Yeah they was good now they was good. Is Mary a living yet?

B: I think so.

CE: She's just barely though. Her mind's bad yeah. Oh yeah, knowed them from a generation honey. Yeah.

B: Okay. Uh...

CE: I don't know nothing about them wild catters. I don't know much about them honey.

B: Okay.

CE: We never had no trouble back in that day. They had...there wasn't enough natives in here to run the mines. They had to ship them in here from old country. I remember seeing them get off of 16 down there little tallies (tallies=Italians) buddy. A whole rows of them. They took them up Red Jacket with little packs on their backs. And they wore little short coats you know. And learn them to load coal.

B: Uh-huh. Did you ever work with any of them?

CE: Ah...worked with them yeah. What are you talking about? Had many good little friends. They was smart. Good people.

B: Really.

CE: We had all nationalities here then.

B: What other kind?

CE: Polish. Them old big polish they were tall people. Yeah. Uh...they robbed them up here these uh...uh...Falloways they was drinkers. Laid around never done nothing and one payday night they...they went there and shot there winders out buddy and shot some of them shot from a shotgun hit them in their feet in the bed you know. And took out their little paydays out. What little they just drawed about thirty five dollars for a half them days you know. But, they caught them and sent them to the penitentiary buddy. They stayed in the penitentiary about a year or two.

B: Uh...

CE: Yeah I bet them Polish people thought this was bad country gonna shoot.

B: I bet. When you say they got paid thirty-five dollars for half. Was it half a month or...what did...

CE: You make about thirty-five dollars for two weeks pay they paid 15th and the 30th you know closest Saturday to the 15th or twice a month. You done good if you drawed thirty-five dollars a half. That'd be seventy dollars a month. Buddy, you could buy all you wanted for just a little bit of money. You what a soup beans are don't you? You know what soupbeans are, pintos and so forth? You've eat them ain't you? You could get a hundred pound bag of them for three dollars.

B: Oh my goodness.

CE: And you'd get a bag of that flour right, now, cheapest you can buy that is $4.95. You could get that for .38, and .39 cents. Wow...wow...wow.

B: Things have gone up haven't' they?

CE: That's right. And through that depression me and my daddy and another feller was up there in the back alley a talking and a feller went up through there with a big...big load of red apples. He went up there a hollerin' three bushels for a dollar.

B: Good grief.

CE: Three bushels of apples for a dollar. They were .33 cents is worth.

B: Good grief.

CE: This old dude he said how could they buy a bushel when there said when they didn't have money have money to blow the whistle he said. Oh, wasn't that...the depression days or something.

B: Yeah.

CE: Well I didn't know that you could have asked me before you hooked me up here and saved you some time.

B: Oh, okay.

CE: Uh-huh.

B: Well that's okay. I got some more information from you in the end. What other nationalities did come in here? Do you know?

CE: Well we had Italians and uh...a lot of Spanish. Spaniards they's good. Good people yeah. Uh...we had nearly every nationality a going for a while. Hungarians we had lots of Hungarians they was good people too.

B: Now did they mix with other folks?

CE: Oh, they good mixes...boy they was one of them, Joe Laundell, he worked out a fortune honey. He worked out over a hundred thousand dollars. Now he'd work... starts talking to someone else) "What do you say Fred?" Alright. (another voice inters into the interview) "How are you today?"

CE: Pretty good. (starts back to the interview) ...He'd work uh...all day and go back and work that night, all night long. All the time. And he'd go in there of the days they'd the miners wasn't run clean up the right away and things like that. Worked all the time. And he worked in that mines 'til he got...he couldn't bend up. Low coal you know he had to walk around like that. You see George walking like that. He got mad at his father-in-law how come he over here he said. His father-in-law was wealthy and he didn't have no money. He come over here to get more money than him and he...he lost a thousand dollars when the banks broke during the depression. But he didn't tell he went right on...worked right on and he worked out of portion, but didn't do him no good. Time he quit he was so greedy he was too old I don't even believe went back to...over there.

B: Really?

CE: No.

B: Huh.

CE: Joe Loundell...He worked out of portion.

B: How do you spell his name?

CE: Well buddy you've got me here. Joe Loundell.

B: Okay.

CE: Everybody knowed Joe Loundell. Huh-uh...he was smart. Oh buddy, he was a smart guy.

B: Okay.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection