Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Bill and Roy Hall Interview

Marie (Hall) Glogovsky): Tell us about you and your time here in Matewan. When and where were you born sir?

Roy Hall: I was born at Lynn, West Virginia, about two miles above Matewan.

M: And dad, where were you born?

Bill Hall: I was borned at Coal Run, Kentucky, below Pikeville, Kentucky.

M: What were your parents' names? And were always...were they always...from this area?

BH: Yes, my parents' names was W. M. Hall, my mother was Emma Hall.

M: Okay. What was her maiden name?

BH: Emma Dye.

RH: Emma Dye.

M: And, were they always from this area?

BH: Yes, from Pike County, Kentucky.

RH: Yeah Pike County.

M: Okay. Did you have any sisters and brothers and how many?

RH: Well, I had four sisters and four brothers that lived, but...they mighta been two or three more than that.

M: That's all that lived? What sort of occupations were your parents involved in?

BH: Coal miners.

RH: Coal miners. Just anything they could get when they was on strike down there at Matewan.

M: Did you attend the local schools when you were growing up?

RH: Oh, yeah.

BH: Yes.

RH: McCarr.

M: Well, were you a kid in Matewan? And was there a movie theater there?

RH: Yes.

RH: But, only silent movies at first.

M: Okay. Did you have, any vehicles when you were a kid, or just...how did you all get around?

BH: We walked.

M: Did you have any wagons, or mules, or anything like that?

BH: We had mules and horses...wagons, but we didn't use 'em where we lived. We'd walk.

RH: Well, we didn't, really. The fact about it...we didn't have any ourself though they were around.

BH: No, we didn't own any.

RH: Other people, that's the way they traveled.

M: Do you remember what it was like to work in the coal mines back in the '20's?

RH: Yes, ma'am, I do.

M: Dad, you worked in 'em, too, didn't ya?

BH: Yeah.

RH: Yeah, he did.

M: In fact, daddy got hurt in the coal mines one time, didn't he?

BH: That was at Glomowr, Kentucky, though, that was several years after that.

M: How much did they pay you all for workin' in those days?

RH: Well, at first I started at a dollar and a half a day. Then I gotta job at two (dollars) and a quarter.

M: How old were you when you started in the mines?

RH: 'Bout thirteen years old.

M: How old were you, dad?

BH: 'bout twelve.

M: How many years did you all work in 'em before you left them?

RH: Well, I worked...I put in about twenty years in 'em.

BH: I put in about twenty years in 'em too.

M: What do you remember about the passenger trains that came to Matewan everyday?

BH: Well, they...they come in pretty often, they run 'bout three or four times a day, up and down the river. I believe they had "16" in the evening, and two others that they...run...up, and three down. I believe it was three up, and three down there at Matewan.

BH: I can recall "16" in the evening, and I can recall a number "8" in the morning, I believe it was called.

RH: Yeah, that's right.

BH: Then there was "15," I believe it was, at noon time. And I can't recall the others, right at the present. (Added later when correcting - number "3" at midnight, number "15" at noon, also number "4".

M: Man, that's a lot. Did you ever know Sid Hatfield, personally?

RH: Yes, I did. I worked for him. He and I were awful good friends.

M: Well, dad, you knew him, didn't you.

BH: I knew him, but I's only about twelve years old, then.

M: Well, didn't you all say that he used to come to your house?

RH: Oh, yes. Yes, he's been to our house.

M: What...what...didn't he used to go with...Della?

BH: He used to go with my sister, Della.

RH: Did Sid ever go with Della?

BH: Yes, he did.

RH: Well, I didn't know that. You see, you're tellin' me somethin' I didn't know.

M: And then she was...she also went with, who'd you say? Bob...McCoy?

RH: One of them McCoys, uh...Bob McCoy they called him, one-eyed fella.

M: See, I never knew that before, either.

Q?: She almost married him.

M: Did you know a Ed Chambers?

RH: Yeah, I knew Ed.

M: And, uh...Hailey Chambers or Hallie Chambers?

RH: Hallie? Hallie Chambers, yes, I knew him.

M: Or Fred, or Albert, Burgraff?

RH: Burgraff.

M: Okay.

RH: Yeah, I knew them, too.

M: There's a Reece here, did ya'll know him?

BH: Reece Chambers? Yes, we knew him. That was Ed Chambers's father.

RH: That's Ed Chambers's father.

M: Didn't some of these...weren't some of these in that Matewan Massacre they talk about?

BH: They were all in it.

RH: Yeah, the old man Reece was there, and...

M: Yeah, what happened, then? Tell about it.

BH: Well...

M: What you remem...well, you, Roy, one of 'em had your coat on him when he got shot?

RH: Yeah, yeah. One of 'em had my coat on when he got shot. Clarence...what was his name? Tinsley?

BH: "Tot," "Tot" Tinsley. (A nickname)

M: They called him "Tot?"

BH: "Tot."

RH: They called him "Tot."

M: Well...tell about that Massacre, dad. Remember when I was down there and you were showin', pointin' it out to me? And about the one that ran into the barber shop, whatever, doctor's?

BH: Well, I don't know who all was involved in it, I knowed some of 'em.

M: Well, name the ones that you all remember that was in it.

BH: But we know that the "Baldwin Felts Gang" was sent...to Matewan and they was to...supposed to buy Sid off, and get him to work for them.

RH: That's right.

BH: And they were up...just about a half a mile, the Baldwin men were, out of Matewan...at...uh...a little mining town there, and they were sittin' people out of their homes; carryin' their furniture out, and if they was sick, they'd carry them out, too. Sid goes up there to find out what is goin' on. He got to talkin' with 'em and told 'em they had no right to do that, and one of 'em looked at Sid and told him, said, "Hatfield," said, "We've run men to the mountains and killed 'em in Paint Creek and Cabin Creek." Sid told 'em, "Yes, but the man that kills you'll be lookin' you right in the eye." And so they said they had a warrant for Sid, and he said, "Well, we'll have to go down and the Mayor'll have to fill bond for me." And they go down in Matewan, and the Mayor sees 'em. He comes out and asks Sid what's wrong, and Sid tells him they had him arrested. So, the Mayor...by that time, the Union men seen what was goin' on and they began to gang up on the station ground, where it happened...and the mayor read the warrant, he said it was "bogus", it was no good.

RH: That was Testerman said that.

BH: And Isaac Brewer spoke up and he said, "Damn you, you'd better wrote it on a Ginger Snap, so you could eat it," they said.

RH: Yeah, that's what it was.

BH: And he said, "What's that?" And he said, "Well, you heared me the first time." By that time, the Baldwin men was linin' their men up, facin' the Union men. And they...Isaac Brewer was supposed to have been standin' beside of Sid Hatfield...when it happened.

RH: He must have made 'em believe it, because they never did kill him after that. He...he joined the very bunch that he killed the first two...he was the man that killed the first two.

BH: That's right.

RH: Isaac went over to the other side, and yet he turned evidence. state's evidence. He, undoubtedly, made 'em believe it, or they...they did, or they'd have killed him, 'cause I know them fellers.

BH: And they say they found papers on 'em, after they were killed, that they was supposed to pay Sid a thousand dollars to come over and work for the coal companies. And, if he didn't take it, they was supposed to kill him.

RH: That was...that was supposed to be the way it was, now, I'm tellin' you...

BH: That's the true statement.

RH: He's tellin' you right, there.

M: And he wouldn't go over? Is that why they killed him?

BH: He wouldn't go over. And, uh...when the shootin' started, why..."Tot" Tinsley was a young boy, he was about sixteen wasn't he?

RH: Yeah. Clarence Tinsley had my coat on when he got shot. Why he done it, he and I had a habit of wearin' the same clothes. I wudn't there that day, if I hadda been I'd of been right down there with him...and maybe got killed, too. But, anyhow, he run and put my coat on...and went down there and was agettin' there just about the time the fight started. When he saw the fight start he went runnin. One of the detectives, I don't know which one done it, shot him in the back with a 45 auto...automatic, 45 Colt; with a "dum-dum" bullet. They claimed it knocked a hole in 'im (him) big as an egg. I know...I know, I they never did use that coat no more, and I...they may have it over there yet, I don't know.

M: Yeah, daddy didn't you say that...

BH: Durin' this time, why, Dutch Rherer was shot through the corner of the post office, that glass front there. Isaac Brewer was shot in the hand and in the lung. And, one boy (last name was Haywood)...killed one with a jug of chloreform. He run in the doctor's office to hide, and one of the Felts men come backin' in there on him with a gun in his hand ashootin,' and the boy got scared and hit him in the back of the head with a jug of chloreform. And the doctor said he woulda never waked up if he hadn't have...by the time he hit the street when he knocked him out of the door, the men shot him; but the doctor said he would've never waked up no way, he was drowned in it...almost. It was about a two gallon jug of chloreform busted on the back of his head. And that's the way it was.

M: Do you all know anything about who shot the mayor that day? I didn't...

BH: Nobody...nobody knowed who shot who, that day. Because they was shootin' at everybody that moved, they didn't have no friends there, no relatives, and they come there purpose...

RH: The fight took place on the same day they come down there.

BH: They didn't come there and stay like this movie they made shows.

RH: No, no they didn't come atall.

BH: They was...they was killed the same day they come in there. And as far as celebratin', the night...the day of the murder, that night...they did not celebrate it, but they got news that they was gonna be a gang of Felts men come in there to shoot the town up. And they was out there, the miners was, a-lay-wayin' number "3" passenger train that come through Matewan at noon, twelve o'clock that night. That was the only celebration you could call it.

RH: Yeah, that's right. 'Cause they didn't celebrate nothin' like that. They was...they was all lookin' for, uh...the town to be shot all to pieces that night, and they was awaitin' for that train to come in. Well, see...see McDowell County uh...they wasn't tryin' to organize that at that time...and they's alookin' for 'em to come down...and attack those fellas there at Matewan that was tryin' to organize.

BH: But we do know that they was...about eleven of 'em, altogether, killed there that day.

RH: Yeah, of that one bunch.

M: Well, didn't you say somethin' about one of 'em tryin' to get away, or got away..?

BH: One did get away.

M: That was one...

RH: Killed Sid, up there in McDowell's County, he killed Sid, then another nigger killed him.

M: Well, who was it you were talkin' about was tryin' to get in a barrel, or somethin', and..?

RH: That was the man...

BH: ...that got away.

RH: ...he was tryin' to hide in it...barrel.

M: Well, how'd they finally catch him?

BH: He got out and waded Tug River, and got on the Kentucky side, and got away.

RH: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he went out and waded the river.

M: And...and he did get away, then? Or...

RH: Yeah, he got away. Yeah, he got away, but, now, he killed... Sid, I don't know who killed, uh..."

BH: Chambers?

RH: Chambers. That was when they went to Welch...to stand trial.

BH: They told me how it happened, and two of the men that went up there, got away. One of 'em told me that when they...this fella ...I forget what his name is, now, who killed Sid...walked right over and stuck a rib, a gun right in his ribs, and begun to pull the trigger and shot him till he fell. And Uncle John Collins, he pulled two year over it. And his brother, Steve...they...(Pause)...and see that's where I go blank, you know, at times.

M: Well, now, Sid wasn't killed in this Massacre, though, right? He was killed...

RH: Well, no. No, shortly after.

M: Well, didn't you say that, uh...your mom tried to warn about going up there that day?

RH: Well, no. Dad tried to...warn him about goin' to where he got killed, up there at Welch. My dad did. He tried to tell him he'd get killed and...and, uh...old man Reece...Chambers, his boy got killed up there, but he didn't, he wouldn't go.

M: Well, what did they tell Sid?

BH: They told Sid not to go that they wouldn't let 'em come there and take him, but he said they treated him nice. He'd done gone up there and filled bond, him and Ed Chambers. They'd come back and they was supposed to go back for trial and, uh...they was warned not to go, though, the miners didn't want 'em to go. They told 'em they wouldn't let 'em come there and take him."

RH: That's right.

BH: But Sid said, "No, they treated us nice, they's no danger, they wouldn't bother 'em". But they did, they killed 'em. They was waitin' on 'em.

M: And didn't one of 'em send word that they would have to come get him or somethin', you said, later?

RH: Yeah, and the judge and everything was out of town and...uh ...they wudn't no court supposed to be there that day, at all. But they made 'em believe they was, and got 'em up there...gettin' 'em into the court house, they got both of 'em killed and, uh...

M: How'd you say that happened? I remember you sayin' Sid was standin' there and..? I remember you all talkin' about how it happened and how they shot him and all that.

RH: Well, he'd left his guns and...everything. And that's why...I cried when I saw and heard that big tale they told that the detectives beat him...beat him on the draw. He was a good shot and... and, uh...was continually havin' to use his pistol on somethin' or other and...I knew that was a lie. Come to find out, he didn't have no gun, he left 'em with his...stuff at the hotel.

BH: Neither one of 'em...didn't have a gun.

M: Did they go alone when they went?

BH: They went with their wives, both of their wives went with 'em. And when they's awalkin' up the path to the courthouse, they's lined up on each side of the path, the Baldwin men were, waitin' on 'em.

RH: Yeah, just a little narrow...'bout as broad as this...

BH: And they stepped out behind 'em and started shootin' 'em, and Ed Chambers's wife beat a umbrella out over one's head while they was shootin' 'em. But Sid's wife didn't do anything, she was...scared too bad, I guess. And, they said, Sid was shot twenty-two times, I don't know about Ed Chambers, how many times he was shot.

RH: And I knew that was a fake about them beatin' him to the draw.

BH: That's right.

RH: That Cincinnati Post wouldn't do nothin' but tell lies all the time.

M: And that's what they put in the paper?

RH: That's all they got. They didn't get the real news.

BH: But, before all this happened, they was a lot of shootin' done up and down the river there, especially at McCarr, Kentucky.

RH: Yeah.

BH: That's where a lot of it was...it mighta been called Alburn at that time.

RH: Well, at that time, it was called McCarr...and Alburn, they called it.

BH: And the companies, they had machine guns on that mountain there, on the side of the mountain, and they would turn them machine guns loose on the miner's tents up on that Blackberry Hill, across the river from it. Of anight, they start shootin'...

RH: They also shot all them piec...all them people's houses all to pieces up and down through there.

BH: You could find big slabs knocked off'en them houses, where the machine guns struck them.

RH: Great big fleets tore out of the walls.

M: And that was with women and kids and anybody in there?

BH: Well, Sid come to our house one morning...well, it was...right close to noon time, and mother was puttin' some...dinner on the table for us...we was just kids, I was about twelve years old...and he said, "Mrs. Hall," he had a grass sack on his back and he had somethin' in it, carryin' it...after that we knew it was a gun, a rifle, and probably a bunch of shells,...and that was.... We lived at the Blackberry Bridge, right at the end...in a section house...at that time, and dad was workin' on the section, at that time there.

RH: It was just about...considered about one mile from where we lived, to Matewan.

BH: Yeah. That was before the Massacree (Massacre) ever happened. Sid come there and he said, "Mrs. Hall, ain't you a little afraid to stay here today?" He was well acquainted with our family. And mother said, "No, Sid," said, "Why are you sayin' that?" He said, "Well, it might be a little dangerous to stay here today." Well, she...she didn't think much about it at the time, and he went...turned around and he left. And he hadn't been gone, I'll say about five minutes, till the shootin' started. And they was workin', at the time, dumpin' coal on the tipple right...oh, about two hundred yards from our house, there; and, they said, one of the guys was killed on the tipple, at the time. And that started, and it lasted for three days and nights (may be referring to the "3 Day Battle"). And it was almost...

RH: It was about seventy hours, I think, now.

BH: It was about seventy hours. And the men who had been in the first World War, was in this and they said you couldn't have told...(the difference).

RH: Yeah, and them men that was through the first World War, that is, they said they wudn't any difference in it; only they didn't have big guns like cannons, and so on.

M: But they did have machine guns, usin' 'em?

BH: They had machine guns.

RH: Oh, they had plenty of 'em.

BH: And that lasted for about...seventy hours, that way.

M: Well, now, where were you all were livin' then...was that where you all dug the hole in the floor so you could hide.

RH: Yeah, that's where it was.

BH: Yeah, that's where we dug it.

RH: I dug a hole...under my...under my house, to get in it and... Bill, I think, was the first one that got in it when the shootin' started.

BH: Yeah, I was the first.

RH: And he was tellin' me about grabbin' some of the children and puttin' 'em in the water. Water collected in where I dug the hole...and it was really on the side of the river bank where Roy lived. M: Man, that's somethin.' RH: We got outta there, and we got so we would run to the bend of the river, to keep the people...from hittin' us, anyway. Why, I found one bullet come in my house, it'd hit an old pole-ax I had there and...stopped it, and. They's plenty of lead...I guess ten thousand bullets wouldn't hold what went across my house, just over the top of it. You could hear 'em hit the railroad track, there.

BH: And some...some guy there at, uh...between...between Matewan and McCarr used to come out...what's the name...Magnolia (now called Sulphur Creek on WV side of the river, across from McCarr) some guy, I guess he's aworkin' there then, he didn't belong to the Union. He had a fashion of comin' out there at the mouth of the creek, and stand and listen at it; and he come out there, and one of 'em killed him. They didn't know who done it, it shot from off'en the mountain on the Kentucky side. So, they didn't know,... probably one of his own men killed him, his own friends, because... he was a strikebreaker, too. But, I know it was one of his own men that killed him. They didn't know him, they couldn't tell who he was...they probably thought he was a union man.

M: Boy!

RH: They couldn't tell who they was ahittin' there or nothin' about it.

BH: And I was about twelve years old and it...us kids, we all learnt to run under the floor, and get behind the...chimneys. And, some of the houses was pretty low, and we'd go under there and we'd skin our backs. My back had sores on it almost, where I'd run into the floor.

M: Sounds like a war zone.

BH: ...crawlin' under the floor so often. Every time they'd shoot, we'd run under the floor.

M: Did you ever see any of 'em get killed, yourself?

BH: No, I didn't see any of 'em get killed.

M: Well, didn't they used to call, uh,...Sid, "Smilin'...?"

BH: "Smilin' Sid" Hatfield.

M: That's what I thought.

RH: Yeah, I worked for him when he had a job bossin', at a little place called, uh...PMC, just down below Matewan a little. And... "Poor Man's Chance," they called it. That's the title they give it. They always nicknamed things so much, I never could remember anything hardly much about...what they was talkin' about, only I happen to know where it's at. But, anyhow, I do know somethin' about that shootin' there. My dad helped load those men up on their rifles, and carried 'em and put 'em...in the...train, that evening, when it come through. And, I know they's more than one or two killed.

BH: Sid was...I guess...known, when he worked there at Alburn, or McCarr, durin' the War, durin' the first World War, and they had requested for everybody to...give a day's work. And, they was a man there that was a sympathizer with the...Germany, and when they come to him to ask him for a donation of a day's work, he told 'em if he had anything, he'd give it to [the] Keiser. Well, somebody told Sid what he said.

RH: Sid had a brother workin', I mean servin', in the Army at that time, over there fightin'. I heard him say, "I'll whup that feller in the morning." And, sure 'nough, he did. He broke his nose all to pieces. Now, Sid was a patriarch man, patriarch, patriotic man.

BH: And so, the company...fired the guy, after Sid whipped him and they never seed (seen) him no more, he left there. Later on then, Sid become the Chief of Police in Matewan. And this trouble got so bad in...around in Mingo County, that the State Police couldn't do anything with it, and they called in the Regular Army. They had 'em on two occasions to come to Matewan, there, and I don't know, I can't remember how long they stayed, but it was quite a while. That's about all that we have to say about it. My name is Bill Hall, and my brother's name is Roy Hall. And if anything you can use that we've said, it's the truth.

M: Well, there's some more questions here, dad.

Q?: Now, when you worked with Sid Hatfield, how'd he treat the men around him, that he worked with?

RH: Well, he treated 'em awful good, but he was...awful bad to fight and...he...he told 'em, he says, "Now you know me, I'll loan you money if you need it, but...you better pay me back. If you don't I'll turn your nose up...and it'll rain in it." He never had any fights over these...loanin' money, they knew when time come to pay it back, they'd better pay it back, or they'd have him to whip, you know, and...they wouldn't take a chance on that. I guess I saw...'bout all the fighting, before this strike come, that he ever done. I saw him have a shootin' match with an old fella...that was he's goin' with his girl, and they fell-out some way or another and. This old man called him down to his house and he...I was out there playin' marbles right in front of his house...and when he come out of the house, he turned around and shut the gate, and I saw this old man arm, come out of the house with a big 38, shootin' at Sid. Sid didn't do nothin' but close that gate and fasten it, before he pulled two guns and begun to shoot.

Q?: Shootin' in their house?

RH: Yeah. And he shot the old woman...in the back of the neck, or in the right shoulder, and that boy in the back of the neck. That old fella just come a hollerin' for me to run to him, and I was afraid to. And I, I run behind a post and hid, until...everything was over. Sid went down the road and...

Q?: Did he shoot the old man?

RH: No, he never did hit the old man. The old man, I don't know how he...

Q?: And the old man never did hit him?

RH: No.

Q?: Not while he's takin' time to fasten the gate, or anything?

RH: No, nothin'. That's why I, I knew he wudn't no scared-cat.

Q?: No coward. Uh...what did he say about the thugs when they come in there? What'd he tell people about them?

RH: Well, he always told me that when a man got, uh...too sorry to be a good Son-of-a-bitch, he's just right to be a thug.

Q?: A "Baldwin" thug?

RH: A "Baldwin" thug.

Q?: Pretty plain-spoken, huh?

RH: Yeah.

Q?: Well, uh...didn't you, uh...when you was a child...didn't you cook for your dad when he worked on top of one of those mountains in the mines?

RH: Yeah, at Thacker,...Rose Siding below...beside of...just up above where I was born, there, a little bit.

BH: I remember just a short while after the strike was settled in West Virginia, that they was a man by the name of Bill Turner, he was a strikebreaker there at Alburn, or McCarr, Kentucky, that's about a mile out of Matewan. And he was still workin' at the mines after the strike was settled, and he was shootin' a roadway in the mines, to make the top higher, and he had taken out a $85,000 insurance...life insurance...on himself. And him and his brother-in-law, by the name of Joe Jack, they had hired a couple of men, supposedly, to help them in this work; and, they had taken them men in the mines with 'em and they had put 'em to work, and then...while their back was turned...they shot 'em. And they covered 'em up with dynamite and blowed 'em all to pieces so it would be hard to recognize who they were. And Bill had come out and he'd caught number "3" passenger train, that comes through there about midnight, and left. And his wife...collected the $85,000 life insurance on him. And, uh...he was gone quite a while, runnin' around, dodgin.' Finally, he wrote a letter back...to the deputy sheriff there at McCarr, and told him he would be surprised to get a letter from a man that was supposed to be dead; and he told his name, and told him he was comin' back, and told him where to meet him. So, he went back and met him. And they tried him and gave him 99 years in prison, and his brother, uh...brother-in-law, Joe Jack, I think they was...give him 20 years in the pen. That just goes to show you and everybody else...the kind of men that will work agin (against) labor, that will go agin (against) laborin' men that is fightin' for their rights, and he's the kind of man that done that. And now there's another incidence that taken place just awhile after that strike was going on; and that was just after the Massacree. They had this state troop patrol in there, state police, tryin' to keep peace among the miners and...supposedly. And they was a young man that lived around Lynn, West Virginia...that's only about a couple of miles out of Matewan...who they say had deserted the Army. And they was a couple of state police on the way up there to arrest this man, and they would happen to be a man walkin' along with 'em, that was up on the hill, and as they was goin' along, they was talkin' about how they would like to try the automatic rifles out. At about the time they were talkin' like that, somebody had cut down on 'em, off'en the mountain there, and he shot one of these state policemans in the thigh, cut the main artery in his leg, there, and he bled to death. And the other one run over the hill and caught a freight train that was comin' down Tug River very slow, and I'll never forget that...I was only a small child...but I remember that. I was about twelve years old. This guy was scared so bad that he was hangin' 'bout halfway on this coal car. He didn't get on the end of it, he got about...halfway on the side of it, and was hangin' there, and it was right comical to see 'im, he was scared so bad. So, he got away, but that fella, he died. I don't know who shot him, I never did know, but it was always thought that this young man done that. He had heard, probably, that they were coming to get him, maybe somebody had told him, and he shot a state policeman and killed him. And, just a while after the Massacre, there was another thing happened. We lived at the end of Blackberry Bridge, that goes over into Blackberry Creek and Almee (Alma) Thacker Coal Company. And we lived in a section house, there, and Isaac Brewer lived straight up on the hill from us...I guess about five hundred yards...and, someway, while Isaac was recuperating from the wounds that he got in the Massacree, he happened to see two Baldwin men going up the Kentucky side of the river on horses. They had been to McCarr, Kentucky. And Isaac, I don't know who shot the first time, but I believe Isaac did, and they were standing there...Isaac was on his porch,...and they were standing over on the other side next to a barn, in the mouth of Blackberry Creek. And they was shootin' back at Isaac, and Isaac was shootin' a pistol. So, they must have shot about twelve or fifteen times, but nobody was hit in that skirmish. And, uh...we heard, later on, that they was one bullet missed Isaac's head about a foot, but it didn't hit him. So, that is about all that I can tell you about that strike in West Virginia. One more thing I would like to mention. I was going to school at Lynn, West Virginia, about that time, and this happened just before the Massacree in Matewan. My teacher was named Nancy Murphy, and she was roomin' in Matewan, in the lower end of town. And, she was on her way to school one morning, and she saw Sid and another man out on the street. Apparently, they were wrestlin', and playin' around, she thought. She said, "When I give a good look at it," said, "Sid was laughin' all time," but said, "When I took a good look, I seen the blood on the other man's face." It happened that this man was a strikebreaker there, and Sid had whipped him. And that...was reason, I guess, why they always called him "Smilin' Sid" Hatfield. He would fight a man, and then laugh, all at the same time...and that's a very odd thing for a man to do; fight and laugh all at the same time.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection