Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Robert W. McCoy, Jr. Interview

John Hennen: Today is Tuesday, June 14th 1989. This is John Hennen for the Matewan Development Center, preparing to conduct an oral history interview with Bob McCoy in his office in downtown Matewan. (Mike check on number two microphone it's Tuesday June 14th 1989. Okay Just to start out Mr. McCoy could you tell me when and where you were born and your parents names.

Bob McCoy: Born in Baltimore, Maryland, Baltimore county. May the fourth, 1945. My father was Robert W. McCoy. Robert Ward McCoy and mother Henrietta Chambers McCoy.

John Hennen: Okay. Uh. What...how come your folks were in Baltimore. They were, they grew up in the Matewan area. Is that right?

BM: Yes. Both my...my father was born in Sulphur Creek uh...which may...may not have been in the corporate limits of Matewan where he was born and my mother was born here in Matewan and my sister before me, Romona, seven years older than I and my brother after me, seven years younger than I were both born here in Matewan and I was the only one born...born out of the...out of the county and uh...at that time in 1945, they were up there in the...my dad was working in the uh...ship yards uh...as a wartime effort. He was a uh...had uh...leg problem that would not allow him to be in the army and my mother, I understand, she worked in Montgomery Ward up there (tape cuts off).

J; How long did your family remain in Baltimore area?

BM: I don't know how many years they were in Baltimore. I know that uh...about a year after I was born, they, they came back which would have been right at the end of the war...came back to Matewan. I'm sure uh...after the uh...uh...war was over, they probably shut down production er (OR)...sharply curtailed production or ships and... and had to come back here to find work.

J; And what kind of work did your parents do when you returned to Matewan?

BM: You know, that's a little grey area uh...my mother didn't work. SHe didn't have any jobs uh...they were very few opportunities for women then. And my dad uh...I don't know if it was before he went to uh...Baltimore or after he came back but anyway, some time in that period he worked for the Scott Nichols bus line which was a bus company here in Matewan but uh...uh....he may have gone to work directly for uh...uh...John Anderson who had a uh... large uh...grocery uh...company here in Matewan. It was a grocery ...you know a retail grocery outlet, but anyway, when I was a young boy, he worked for uh...Mr. Anderson and then when his son-in-law, uh...Charlie Wilson took over, I think he called it Wilson & Company...took over that same business he worked for Charlie.

J: Where was that business located?

BM: It was in the uh...uh...upper end of Matewan and uh...near uh...but on the opposite side of the street of the uh...what was then the Matewan Elementary School building and that later became a part...that building became a part of the high school when the new grade school was built.

J: Now was this grocery outlet, did it uh...send trucks out to pick up produce in places like Huntington, Charleston or did it have stuff trucked in?

BM: Well, I think at that time, most of it was trucked in but they did some of that uh...my dad was uh...did a lot of things there and he delivered groceries. I remember as a child going with him sometimes and you know later on we bought that business uh...uh...when there was a terrible down turn in the economy uh...Charlie Wilson wanted to leave the area and uh...my father was able to buy the business. So...and we did go to Huntington...Huntington in particular and buy groceries from wholesale grocery companies.

J: Approximately when did your father buy the business?

BM: Uh...(Pause) I'm guessing now about nineteen uh...fifty-six. Uh...I think it was about a year before my sister graduated from high school. If I remember correctly, it may have been fifty-five.

J: And how long did that business operate?

BM: Well, we operated until uh...uh...my father became disabled uh...and uh...we were actually in that location the upper end of town...also we were flooded several times there and uh.,..at one point uh...we moved the store down here in the McCoy building. We owned a part of that building. My dad did that was uh...his dad built that building and had...had a...at one time, for about a year, we had two stores, one in the upper end of town and one right here in Matewan operating. and then at the...one of the floods uh... washed us out and we just come up here and operated this one location so we uh...we were in the grocery business from the fifty-five, fifty-six, fifty-seven, that time period to uh...about nineteen uh...uh...seventy-six. Mother sold the grocery business to uh...Wirt Marcum who...who let his son Charles, the son-in-law, Charles Eanes, operate his business. May have owned it for all I know.

J; Are your parents living?

BM: No. Both of 'em are deceased.

J: How 'bout uh...brothers and sisters. Do you have uh...siblings in this area?

BM: Yeah. My brother, David Mark McCoy, who's married to Etta Faye McCoy, reside at uh...just at the edge of Red Jacket, North Matewan and my sister, Romona, uh...Hooker married Paul Hooker resides in Atlanta, Georgia. She had uh...David has uh...two children, Mark and Elizabeth... and she has two children, Rebecca and Robert.

J; And when did you marry and what was your wife's maiden name?

BM: I married in uh...nineteen uh...sixty-seven uh...in Morgantown and to Judith Francis McConkey, and uh...our first and only child was born up there my senior year uh...uh...in Morgantown...in Morgantown.

J; Was your wife from this area or another area?

BM: No. She was from Wheeling, West Virginia. Her mother worked for Wheeling Steel and both of our parents worked for Wheeling Steel as a matter of fact.

J: What schools did you attend up until...obviously you went to West Virginia University, how 'bout from the very beginning?

BM: Okay. I went to Mate...uh...Matewan Grade School uh...I think uh...the first year for certain I was in the old....what we all call the old grade school building that had the two stories and a finished basement and uh...uh...for at least one year, maybe two years, there and then we moved up to the new grade school building uh...which is still the grade school now in either 1952-53 and uh...went...finished the grade school there and went on to junior high and high school at Matewan High School and uh...after graduating from high school in '63, I went to Marshall for one year and uh...decided to go up to West Virginia University so I...the next year and the subsequent years I attended Marshall...uh...West Virginia University and graduated there with a B. S. in Business Administration.

J: And that was '67?

BM: No sixty uh...I was a year behind that was I graduated in sixty-eight and I went from...I was in the ROTC program and uh... was commissioned after graduation and went in the army for a little over two and a half years.

J: And, where were you stationed?

BM; Well, I went to the uh...first I went to the uh...army... armored officers training school in uh...Fort Knox and after that I...I went to Germany and served with the third squadron second armored calvary. First as a reconnaissance uh...platoon leader and then uh...I ended up in uh...the S-4 as a...assistant S-4 and uh...I guess I was there for the rest of my days in the army there in Amberg...A.M.B.E.R.G. Germany in Bulgaria.

J: And then you returned to Matewan area?

BM: Yes. Actually my father became ill and uh...I got a hardship discharge come back here and help in the family business. My mother was operating the business by herself uh...but I only stayed there I doubt even a year because really the business...I was married and uh...the business wasn't really big enough to support two families so uh...an opportunity became available for me to... and I...with Persinger Supply Company and I went down there and I was assistant...assistant credit manager at the beginning and uh...I also helped back here at the store uh...in the evenings and weekends as I could until we sold the store but I was with Persinger Supply Company for nine years uh...uh...and then I was credit manager and when we were moving our home office, Persinger Supply Company was moving from uh...Williamson to uh...uh...Prichard, West Virginia uh...an opportunity came available here to buy this insurance agency and I...I since it was gonna require me to move and I had some rental properties and I had a home here I... uh...I was reluctant to move so I went ahead and bought this business and...and came here in nineteen...

J: In...oh, okay.

BM: Yeah. I came to Matewan Insurance uh...uh... in 1979 and of course I've been there since ten years.

J: Okay. Okay. We have a general outline of your personal history now and later on I will be asking you questions about your terms as mayor and uh...the business here in Matewan today, but I want to back track to some...and fill in some areas here. Now you have family connections to some of the most well known names in the area, anyway, the McCoys, the Chambers' and I believe the Buskirk's, is that correct?

BM: Yes.

J: Could you take me back a generation or two and sort of outline your family genealogy?

BM: As best as I can, it's uh...uh...my uh...on my father's side his mother, Emma, was a Buskirk and she was sister to R. W. Buskirk. Robert W. Buskirk who happens to be my father's namesake. I'm Robert W. McCoy Jr. of course and uh...they had the Buskirk's, uh...I can't tell you much about the other Buskirks but you know they were brother and sister and for the most part as I understand they..their...they were from Logan County or at least recent in recent before coming here than Logan County uh...my father, Sailor, he was born in Sulphur Creek and uh...his relatives uh...puts us of course right on the edge of Matewan uh...I think most of them grew up right there in the Sulphur Creek area. We...our McCoy's... when I was a child, I was always told that we weren't a part of the Hatfield and McCoy feud course later on because of the notoriety, I took advantage of that and professed to be one of the feuders you know but the fact of the matter is and uh..that was uh... just recently came to light I read an obituary uh...who was uh...it was Uncle Kay uh...McCoy who was uh... Sailor's uncle, I believe that was the relationship who died in Sulphur Creek and he was uh...I think his given name was W. G. McCoy. and uh...he had...he was born in uh...Sulphur Creek in 1839 and so that takes us back to my family here in Matewan then and probably uh...certainly years before that so it puts us...we could have been right here in uh...this valley in the late seventeen hundreds you know. Maybe after uh...the revolutionary war. We...I haven't got any further back than that myself and uh...but uh...Sailor uh...he was pretty tight lipped about all that and it's true that our family did not uh...uh...were not involved in the...the feud...the Hatfield and McCoy feud uh...as a matter of fact Kay, Uncle Kay, as he is affectionately referred to uh...he was in a....down a valley uh...worked for Devil Anse uh...I guess they had uh...the certain economic ties but they were a lot of McCoys and a lot of Hatfields that didn't participate in the feud as were there other families that didn't carry the name of Hatfield or McCoy that participated. I'm no expert on the Hatfield and McCoy feud at all uh...and quite frankly it's become...my lack of knowledge has become embarrassing so I've began...I've begun to study these things uh...so that was my father's side uh...my mother, her mother was uh...uh....boy, it's already slipped by...uh...Howell, I'm gonna...Florence Howell and uh...I'm trying to...and her...Florence's husband was David Howell, he was a uh...I would...I don't know how to...he was some sort of enforcer for the companies...coal companies...uh...probably company "thug" would be appropriate for him.

J: Now his connection to your mother was?

BM: Uh...my grandmother...my grandmother, Cora Chambers, I should should say, her mother and dad was...okay, okay,...I have confused the issue. My mother's mother was Cora Chambers. Cora Howell Chambers and her mother was David and Florence Howell uh...and he was uh...a company "thug". He was noted for his shooting ability and I...there still one stories told about him from the old timers they...he could sit on a horse and shoot uh...and throw up a marble and shoot it you know with a small caliber pistol and that was saying something you know a horse doesn't sit still and but uh...he was a gunslinger and he was later uh..assassinated down in uh... Williamson. They shot him in the back uh..from a second story window. And it's a story I been told. George Howell and my cousin who's uh...at ...tells me it was handed down to him that uh...he lay in the street down there after he was shot and 'til dark because no one...no one...wanted to be associated with helping him. That was how notorious he was uh...but after it was dark, they picked him up and took him to the uh...uh.. ...uh...room and he eventually made it up...they were living at that time up Pond Creek above Belfry what is now known as Turney Hollow they sold that property to Turney Land Company for nothing but uh...uh...he died after a few days. One of the things uh...he was pretty rough I guess and he was pretty rough on his family too uh...supposedly on his death bed he was uh..Florence was uh...poked ...roll him around and giving him a hard time you know maybe trying to get him to do this and that she said...he says if he ever gets up from here... is this bed, he was gonna kill her, you know, that was in his dying...(laughter) right before...Right. But he never got up, lucky for her cause he may have (laughter) you know, uh...my uh...my uh...I told you that's Cora CHambers, that's his, her parents, my mother's father was Hallie Chambers and uh...they separated uh...uh...Hallie was one of the people indicted in the Matewan Massacre. I didn't know that really until just recently uh...one of...you know, that's one of...I think...it may have been part I'd say anything embarrassed by what...you know his participation. I'd say my mother would have been. Knowing her uh...so they was never much said about it, you know, that part uh...he was a pretty rough character too, but, I think he may have hardened because of the uh...his life uh...he had been...I read an autopsy report after he died uh...he had been blinded early in life when he was a very young man from a rock fall in one eye and later, when he died, he had a detached cornea in the other eye so he was virtually blind you know and he died he was just fifty-two I think uh...but he was uh...the impression that I've gotten that after the...that...uh...the Matewan Massacre uh...he, he never had a job in the mines again. I think those...those people that were indicted and others that were so called trouble makers were black listed and never worked in the mines so his ability to earn income was very limited. He was a...I understand, for awhile, was chief of police in Matewan which was a no paying job anyway you know and so you really couldn't. It was tough for him to earn a living and they ...my grandmother Cora and he separated for years and then divorced. Years later uh...really...

J: Did he...was he deceased before you were born?

BM: No. He died, I was a very young uh...kid though. I'd have to think about...when it...the years but I was just a child uh...I probably not much more than six years old uh...fifty-two or something like that and my brother hadn't been born uh...so uh...and actually they...he died...he was an alcoholic and uh...died in the Huntington hospital up there, you know, the...I guess it was a mental hospital.

J: On twentieth street.

BM: They was some question...he was probably murdered you know, they think. He was...

J: In the hospital?

BM: Yeah. It was never investigated or such. He had a hole in his head so you know it looked like he'd been hit with a hammer as I understand it but uh...he was uh...uh...his circumstances was pretty, he had a pretty pitiful life as did a bunch of people you know.

J: When you were a boy growing up in Matewan, did people talk about the Matewan Massacre at all?

BM: Never mentioned that I can recall. Now, I can remember uh...the name...the Baldwin-Felts, you know those...they were the notoriety of those animals uh...was...I can remember that back as far as I can remember. But, I can't remember much about the massacre. Only vague uh...mentioned and recollections on my part really, you know, it was never discussed uh...so there's some vague recollection from years ago the Baldwin-Felt name has always been in my mind, you know, but I can't remember too much...I don't remember anything about it.

J: Do you ever remember seeing uh...old man Reece Chambers around town?

BM: I don't...but I'm sure he was around when I was a little kid, you know, uh...so I probably...I don't remember him. I don't have any recollection.

J: Who were some of the people you hung around with when you were a kid?

BM: Well uh...when I was a child..now let me say this, I grew up, I didn't have a house uh...we didn't live in a house until we bought that grocery store up there so I lived in apartments here in town, and more particularly right here in the McCoy building. That's where we lived. Upstairs so my back street was the railroad and the front street was the main street of Matewan but there were lots of children in the area at that time when I was growing up uh...and we never had problems finding someone to play with uh... David Stewart uh...whose family at that time was a good friend of my mother uh...and they had a small dry cleaning company in town. I used to play with him in my earlier years. They lived in an apartment at that time close by and then later they bought a house up in the O'Brien addition so I didn't see him very much after that uh...Larry Chambers uh...one of Ed Chambers' son uh...Butch Chamber's son uh...lived right up the street here in the house that we later bought uh...caddie cornered to the uh...Matewan National Bank and uh...uh...John Fullen who's currently the mayor uh...the Bowling children who lived in the back alley behind the Baptist Church uh...those are the children that come to mind most uh...that were my ages you know. Robert Allara, of course, was my cousin who lived up in the O'Brien addition. We...we...we played..really after uh...after uh...in grade school we were uh...associated more with each other. He was a good friend all through high school and currently is uh...Robert Montgomery uh...Carl and Mary Montgomery's son whose uh...works for the EPA now. Good friends.

J: What sort of things did kids do for recreation in Matewan area?

BM: Well, at that time, we didn't have any...

J: Legitimate or illegitimate...

BM: No. We didn't have any uh...one of the things...one of our dreams and one of the things was discussed annually was our swim... our hope for a swimming pool. We didn't have that until I was in town council and uh...Dan Moore was mayor so to go swimming my mother would never let me go into the river so but some people went in the river but uh...there was swimming pools in Ragland which was pretty fer piece away and down in Williamson you know so maybe twice a year we would get to go swimming in one of those places if someone else took us. My parents didn't have a car until the uh... middle fifty-six or fifty-seven. Fifty-seven I think so we always had to depend on somebody else. A relative or a good friend who's taking their children somewhere, would take us along uh...so we just ran up and down the front street here, we played a little uh...we played lots of baseball and just little sand lot kinds of games and football the same way, you know, and uh...basketball. We played a lot of basketball. We didn't have any facilities, we uh...literally used a basket you know nailed up against a building or whatever, so we We uh...we just...but we never lacked for anything to do 'course we had the theater in town and uh...I'd usually get to go to the movies on a Saturday. The matinee and uh...which was you know, just a dime I think then. Later it became a quarter but I think growing up I remember a dime and uh...you know, your school activities and the church was an important part of you know, our life then. It's not so much now but it certainly was then so those were the...you know that's how...that filled up our lives of course, we didn't have television in the earlier years again, we didn't have a television until fifty-six or fifty-seven uh...fifty-six I'd say. Right around there and uh...uh...I remember when uh...in the fifties there I would uh...in the middle fifties before we had one, I used to go up and with uh...Bernie Hope and his wife uh...my mother's best friend I'm trying to think of her...Kathleen Hope, who lived in Warm Hollow and they'd invite me up for Saturday nights to watch the television. THe whistler and uh....the things that I recall. The whistler uh...and uh...maybe I Led Three Lives may have been on Saturday night then and uh...and uh...uh...the detective uh...story for years...what I'm tryin' to think of the uh...well, I can't think of it.

J: Peter Gun?

BM: No. No. Peter Gun was years and years later. That was in the sixties. (Laughter) In another words uh...the police department, you know, uh...Joe Friday and that gang.

J: Oh yeah. Dragnet.

BM: Dragnet. Yeah that was on then too so we...I think...those are the...those are the ones that I vaguely recall. But, television uh...they always would fix some popcorn. Have a soft drink and that was...uh...I always..I went up there many, many Saturday nights to watch tv and as a matter of fact our first television, we bought their old television when they got a new one and uh...that was our first television uh...back in fifty-six or fifty-seven.

J: Now I know back in the, oh I guess in the thirties, maybe earlier, there was a nine o'clock curfew on uh...kids under a certain age. Was that true when you were a child also?

BM: Yeah. At different times they had curfews yeah but I...I can't imagine what I'd be doing out there at nine o'clock at night, you know, cause I had to be home before dark. Yes they had curfews and we even had uh...curfews when we had some problems back when I was mayor so from time to time it was difficult, you know, when some younger...some older guys..kids...not really children but older uh... young adults would start raisin cain out there we enforced a curfew.

J: Okay. I have some more questions about your political career later but I want to...couple other things I want to tie in first. WHat church did your family attend?

BM: Well, my mother first started I think in the Matewan United Methodist Church but I can only recall the Matewan BAptist Church when it first got started so that's my earliest recollect...recollection of going to church and we met in the...I remember this uh...very clearly we met first in the uh..the old community church which is...which was washed away in seventy-seven flood and probably the oldest structure in Matewan uh....where...as a matter of fact everyone of the churches in the immediate area got their start there uh...first meeting there. ANyway, we met there and I recall uh...on Sunday, in Sunday School, uh..we would have...there would be so many people, we'd have to meet in the yard outside the church with different Sunday School classes would meet around the uh...church and different places and uh...I'm sure of a reason that left impression on me cause I enjoyed that you know sittin' outside. It wasn't quite as structured. You didn't have to sit on a hard seat and then they built the new church uh...uh...Dr. Reeves was the pastor then and he was a character and uh...a real uh...uh...and they built a real nice facility which still stands of course uh...here in the middle of Matewan and uh...we moved into the new church building in uh... and all through high school I attended this church there. My mother did and then later in the...I think seventies uh...mother started going to the United Methodist Church but I never really attended that church uh....it's...so I haven't really attended church since I was...left and went to college.

J: Did the uh...did the church feature homecomin' meetings and revival meetings?

BM: Of course we had revivals every...every once a year we had revivals. Maybe more often but at least once a year but we didn't have too many homecomings because you know, it was a relatively a new church so uh...you know,they wudn't a uh...any reason for homecoming...all those people were here...we lost uh...uh...in that early time, a lot of things happened economically or three floods we lost a lot of families over the years so you know in those...even those former years of the church.

J: Were the revivals traveling evangelists would come through or local folks...would...

BM: No. They had, naturally had someone from a church over the hill, you know, somewhere out of the immediate area. Although we'd have someone from Williamson on occasion, that would come up and have...conduct a revival. I should also say one of the...our church...our church...the Baptist church always had a uh...uh...full time minister that was trained and currently in seminary or you know had been trained in recent years, they haven't had you know.

J: So, how would you, you classified Dr. Reeves as a character. What...was that an illusion to his preaching style or his personal eccentricities.

BM: Well, yeah. He was...I remember uh...some of the things...I don't know that uh...he was a mis...kind of on a mission sent in here to organize the church uh...because of...maybe our reputation. I don't know that but I know he used to hit all the gambling halls and the uh...everyplace else and go in and invite people to church, and that was...(laughter) that'd catch peoples attention.

J: So was you ever to make...ever able to make any converts?

BM: Oh yeah.

J: Did you make trips into the gambling halls?

BM: I don't know about that but I know he...he went but one of the interesting stories that comes to mind...when he first came here to organize the church, he lived with the uh...uh...the Stanley's. I'm trying....I can't think of their first names but they lived right across then...the bridge..the Matewan-Buskirk bridge on...as you go across the bridge on the right hand side and they had an old chicken house down there that they...he kind of made into quarters. I remember him living there and then later on, he and his wife built a house and uh...Hatfield Bottom up on the hill there was a masonry block house. His wife was always uh...I always remember she was always an invalid. She had a diabetes problem later lost her legs and but uh...she some how came to church. Maybe I can't ever remember coming to church. She was always sick.

J: Was she with him when he was living in the uh...chicken house?

BM: No. I think...he brought her up later uh...those things just come to mind you know that's uh...uh...because I should...one of my good friends I didn't mention, Stanley Linsey, his mother, the daughter of the Stanley's there uh...uh....was right across the street and I used to visit them and play with them alot.

J: Now. We're starting to touch a little bit on some of the social life in the area, religious and social life. What about these gambling halls? Where were they?

BM: Well, I don't...I don't even know of two of course...no, I take that back, behind the old bus terminal uh...there was a...one that I used to as a young boy, I'd go by there and I'd see them playing cards and I understand the Browns owned it. It was a long low building right behind the old bus terminal and then in the bus terminal though uh..my Uncle John, he used to have a card game too there. Uh...I...I... seldom ever got back in the back room where they...or never probably got back there where they were playing cards but there was always a card game goin' on on weekends there uh...and then the other place that I uh...uh...uh...Carey's uh...called her affectionately uh...some referred to her as Niger Carey but that was not meant to be a racist slang, It was affectionate, that was Niger Carey or Aunt Carey plus it was right beside city hall and she...she had cards there but I never really saw people playing cards there you know but I know that they did and she...I think she sold drinks and had a...no telling what else she had. She may have had ladies and everything else, you know, but as a young...I never saw those things but I just heard about them but I used to deliver her groceries in her later years and uh...in that same house.

J: How did people manage to run these gambling or bootleg operations uh...without running into the law enforcement agencies?

BM: Well, I don't know. Back then, I think you could probably do just about anything for a price. I don't know that uh...I don't really know that for fact but I'm sure they had to...it was well known and widely known but these people...these establishments were there and they'd been there for years and years so it...they were recognized parts of the community and I think that's uh...Dr. Reeves, getting uh...leading to his, you know, I think that's one of the, he was trying to turn that around the...(laughter)

J: So the places were pretty much tolerated as long as there wasn't a whole lot of trouble coming out of 'em, I guess?

BM: Yeah, that's uh...I think they...that's probably the police had an arrange..that's what they did was keep from having troubles, you know, and make sure there weren't any big trouble that would uh...cause a stir.

J: Were these...were these establishments expected to support their local police financially?

BM: I don't know. I would assume that they...you know, first of all, it is and even now, they paid those police men nothing. There is no way that you could expect them to live on what they paid those uh...those people. Even when I was mayor, we...it was pitiful uh...what we paid and expect as person to live on. We just didn't have the resources and I think when you don't pay people enough, then you expect them to do something you know...you would expect them to do something else to make a living, you know. I don't know that that was uh...but you encourage, you know, that I think so this little town probably couldn't support the police like they should be and they may have, they may have, but I don't...I don't really...I can't say that for a fact.

J: Uh...one more question about the games that went on in the bus station, were these pretty much exclusively local people that would gamble there or did people come from other towns as well?

BM: I heard that they come from other places way out you know, big time gamblers would come in here. They...now they...I heard that there was thousands of dollars at a time on the table you know. Big thousands of dollars you know. Twenty, thirty, maybe more you know. So you can expect...there was some big time gamblers that came in there.

J: Okay. Jump back to your personal career now. You became involved in local politics. Was...were you still in the grocery business at that time?

BM: Yeah. I came..right after I came back from the service I gu (guess)...I don't know if I'd been here six months or long...it wasn't long and there was a city election coming up or...time to register for election and Dan Moore and uh...George Tanner who ...Dan was mayor then and George was the town councilman came over and talked to me and ask me if I'd run of course I was uh...flattered that they'd even consider me and I did run I uh...on that ticket and you know we won. There was some uh...I can't remember...the opposition then was Willis Fields was uh...the mayor...a candidate for mayor...I understand...I can't remember who the other people were but at least one person from the other ticket, Frank Morrell, who was a long...had been a town councilman and had recorded the town for years and years and years uh...won, was uh...elected on our ticket. I think that's the only person that was. I think he may have been elected as the town recorder.

J: Now would you have been uh...referred to as a reform politician do you think?

BM: Well I think Dan was...I was...Dan had already done that so I think...I don't know how many terms he had been mayor before that. At least two. This was probably...It may have been a second term or third term. These were two year terms. But he was definitely a reform uh...mayor and he turned things around and uh...stopped you know...there were no more gamblin' halls. There may not have been even before then uh...uh...but there were a lot of changes and uh..they...government started to be run as a business, you know, although as little as our money would allow us you know.

J: Now, how many terms did you serve as mayor?

BM: Well, I served...I'm trying to think...I don't know how many terms I served as councilman uh...It may have been uh...two maybe I uh...and in my second term or maybe right after my first Dan said he...he wudn't...he couldn't run again. It was too much of a...he'd be happy to serve on the council but he no longer could continue to be mayor and he had a side from...excuse me...aside from in the bank, he was also a...had a business that was beginning to grow...Superior Electric so those...those were the reasons he gave so he had to step out of the mayors job as a matter of fact the only reason I became mayor is because is that everybody in the room, they went around the room and ask well you know can you be mayor and everybody said, I think everybody had a good reason you know and I...it got to me and I didn't have a real good reason not to be mayor. I tried...I didn't tell of course at the time I wasn't prepared...as far as I was concerned...I wasn't prepared to be mayor uh...but I..I ended up being the candidate for mayor because no one else would be in that group and as a matter of fact, my first term as mayor, I ran unopposed. They just assumed...everybody assumed that Dan Moore wouldn't run and I think we waited right to the eve of the registration and uh...uh...there was no contest for the mayor or any of those other positions maybe but the next time, it became pretty heated you know. Lots of competition.

J: And you won. Was it a tight race then?

BM: Well, it was uh...uh...I don't know if it was so tight then but I had some tight races I have to say for the most part my uh...my Uncle John McCoy, I think he ran against two times and uh...they were all...they'd pull out the stops and the county politicians were involved then you know trying to defeat us up here. But they never did. It was close though. One time, I think I only won by nine votes or something like that.

J: So your opposition would it be fair to say it came from sort of an old line political machine...

BM: Oh. Yeah. No question about it. Yeah it was definitely...they had...they pulled out stops and bought votes and everything. We...we always pride ourselves. We never did that although we hauled some people but we never...I don't think we paid people to haul 'em you know, we'd go out and we would have our voters list and I would actually get out and pave...pound the pavement. Dan Moore would go with me. We'd knock on doors. Shake hands and tell them what, you know, ask them to support us uh...and then uh..the other bunch did the uh...handed out the...five dollar bills and whatever and had paid haulers and you know...did the same old one, two, three, for Mingo County politics you know.

J: I've heard a slogan that attributed to Mingo County politics that your vote was worth two dollars and two swallers. (laughter)

BM: Well, its worth a lot more than that now, it may have been yeah. I can remember...always as a child I used to...on election day up the grounds you'd see a lot uh...and I talked to people that worked in liquor stores. Man they would haul the unbelievable amounts of whiskey out...the little...the little pints that later they actually give them two swallows. They would serve 'em uh...you know in little paper cups out of the back of a car. They had a bar on wheels so to speak and pay it but then uh...later on when votes became more valuable you know with inflation, they started...they gave them little uh...snowballs of whiskey...the cheap stuff you know. Those little half pints and uh...and uh...I've heard recently...in recent years, before uh...this bunch went to jail they were giving you know, twenty dollars or depending how big your family even fifty dollars for a family maybe, you know so I've heard some crazy numbers but it's uh...it was...it has been a definite problem and it's uh...but you know that's always uh...embarrassed me but uh...someone said uh...that this has been...you know, people have done business like this politically since uh...since this country was a country. Now I..I don't believe that uh...but it could be you know.

J: Now, the election days you're talking about when you were a kid would Ira Cooper have been the mayor at that time?

BM: I didn't remember town elections so much then. They had town elections and he was pretty much unopposed that all I can remember so he was uh...I...I have heard stories about him carrying a pistol down there. I never could believe that as a young kid because he was always...I considered him one of my friends. Now I was just knee high to whatever, you know, then uh...but he...I guess he could be pretty rough and he was a character to I..I...but those stories...I didn't know that as a child. I'm...I'm talking mostly of county elections and, you know, state wide elections and national elections.

J: Uh-huh. Let's see. There's couple things I want to ask you about...that took place during your terms as mayor. Now you mentioned a little while ago about a curfew that you felt it necessary to have in Matewan uh...at particular times. What was that about?

BM: Well, it was just really a bunch of kids out raisin' hell you know on the front street. People lived...this community is somewhat unique in, you know, it's a pretty old community. These building's are old and uh...people live over top of these retail stores in Matewan. Now, in most communities, where that was....that was the way it was a hundred years ago but uh...in recent year you know over the last fifty years really, they...usually the retail stores would buy the building and they would store stuff upstairs in the apartments so they never you know, no one lived on the so called main street you know in most communities so we had people that would live right over these retail establishments and when there's a bunch of kids out there raisin hell on the main street you know, people couldn't sleep and uh...uh...course they'd complain and then we'd have to do something about it you know. Speaking of Ira Cooper I'm goina jump back so I can. One of the things...I just want to... comes to mind...when I first came uh...became mayor, my first term I think we paid out a bond for the city water system and uh....the reason that it meant something to me then was the last bond these little clips uh...they would clip the bonds and send 'em up after we made the payment. Ira's name was on it and I think this...this back to the thirties now and Ira Cooper and uh...Mr. Chancey, I can't remember his first name. I'm trying to think of it but he was...he was a important person in this community and as a young man when I delivered groceries for our family business he was still alive and lived in absolute poverty over here on...on the hillside uh...in the curve going to Black(blackberry)..up forty-nine going to the O'Brien addition. He lived over the hill there and he lived with a woman who took...kind of took care of him and he...but he had been, at one time, he was principal of Matewan High School, I believe, and uh...superintendent of the schools. He was the town recorder for years. He started, I think this uh...Ford Motor Company over here and he lived..he was destitute though and an alcoholic I think too. In very poor health and my father for me it made an impression. I didn't know who he was and I was uh...I think I was more or less a poor boy lived you know when I delivered the groceries but my father had great respect for him uh...and he was still highly regarded...and he was highly regarded even though he was..his later years they were less than uh...respectable probably, you know. He was probably at his lowest edge but he was uh...a highly regarded person. Had...and had made a mark in the county and in the community and uh...he died destitute really you know that was uh...I just thought of that when I...when you mentioned Ira Cooper but I wanted to mention him. I think it would be worth while to know a little bit more about Mr. Chancey. He built a beautiful home there in Matewan uh...that was uh...where the solo station is now uh....the Montgomery's owned it in later years, Carl Montgomery and Marion Montgomery. I remember because it has a conservatory or sallarium in it you know. It had lots of glass. It was really the loveliest home in the community I think at the time but it was flooded many times and had to be torn down.

J: He...he had served as superintendent of schools?

BM: I think he was superintendent. Vinci Morrell could tell you more about him. They had...there's some real stories about uh....but he.. I think he was also uh...uh...he may have been principal of Matewan High School but he was an educator uh....a highly regarded educator and he was a business man too. And... and uh...town record...recorder.

J: Now while you were mayor then the uh...the...the...the community built a new water works uh...water system?

BM: Well, that would...In nineteen uh...let me say this. 1974, we had a uh...a small flood that was...well it did some damage...it did some damages and we were able to be declared a disaster area. I say that as a...uh...coming up from that so I had some experience in handling disaster monies and how to go about. That was an education for me but uh...what grants were available un...for disaster relief uh...so in seventy-seven when we had our very large flood, the most devastating flood in the history of our community, we had many floods before that too. We had over...nearly thirty floods uh...or maybe we had had thirty floods uh...from the forties through the seventies at that point and uh...anyway this...this flood washed us away literally and that...that street where the water works was and the old community church and lots of homes and Mingo Lime and Lumber and what was then...we had a brand new uh...medical facility and couple hundred thousand dollars. That whole street was washed away and our water works building was...it was literally...the top part was washed away and all of our equipment was damaged.

J: Was this the old water works building that had been there since the teens I guess?

BM: Right. Been there since the thirties...Yeah the thirties I think and it had been updated uh...in the uh...in the sixties it had been updated uh...and of course we had a new sewer system that was built just when Dan Moore was first mayor so it...it... it....had been built in uh....sixty-eight or somewhere around there so we had a part of a sewer system we'll say a treatment facility was a...and it was washed away so we...at that time we had the opportunity uh...because of some uh..uh...disaster grants and then uh...some other agencies kicked in monies uh...I think it was uh...uh...uh...economic community development uh...and we had two grants basically them and the uh...federal disaster assistance Grants uh...paid for a brand new distribution and treatment facility and uh...also a new storage facility tank facilities too so uh... we were able to build a new water system and then really, some money was given for the...that came along for the...in a couple of years we were able because of that flood to...with disaster monies and grant money...other grant monies and a large farmers home administration loan, we built a new sewage system to and it was a new catch...it was a new uh..lines and treatment facility.

J: Would you classify that as the biggest community accomplishment uh...while you were serving as mayor or are there other areas as well?

BM: Well, we were able...because of the funds...we were able to build a library of course when Dan Moore was mayor and we finished up when I was mayor uh...uh...Dan Moore's administration started the new park facility which built the pool that we had talked about for thirty years and never had you know so we still have a nice swimming pool uh...water, sewer, we have a small...small library facility here uh...those were uh...I would think uh...we've done some beautification projects which I'm proud of that are uh...that were really...the monies were made available really through the bank and the Magnolia Improvements when I was mayor and all those things you know uh...I take personal pride in you know I was a part of it uh...bit I would think those...the most lasting uh..things that uh...since I was you know...I guess since I noted that Ira Cooper and Mr. Chancey had signed off on those bounds and I signed similar bonds for the sewer works and I was around you know for forty years later, I...I paid for it so the facility is still around so maybe, my most lasting mark on the community might be those uh...those facilities yeah.

J: Uh...most people that you talk to and in Matewan eventually get around to...to saying something about the 1977 flood. Now I really haven't been able to get a recreation or the...the sequence of events of the flood on tape yet. Would you...explain that period to me?

BM: I'm trying to think if it was April the seventh or May the seventh or there uh..May or April the fifth, I've forgotten. We had another severe flood in eight-four but let me...the day of the flood...let me say this I had gone to work and I recall this uh...oh gosh and it was...it had rained a day...days before this and we were having the rains and the river was coming up. I don't know what...and I got a call early in the morning I think from my mother who worked in town hall there uh..said that uh..the river was really coming up so I..from time to time during the day I'd check back and uh...and determine that looks like were going to have a flood so I think early in the afternoon I went ahead and left...left work down there at Persinger Supply Company and came home and just as I got here uh...I went down to city hall. Water was coming over the bank. It was an unusual type of flooding for us because usually we have...when it gets up that high, the river really slows down and begins to back up and we have...our flood is the result of back waters, you know. The flood...the waters are impeded somewhere and they start backing up into our community. Back up up Mate Creek and and then get...eventually get over here in town some you know but this river was coming up and it was flowing rapidly I mean...

J: Still raining?

BM: Yeah. Right...wasn't rain so much...Yes it did rain though it was raining but uh...it was raising rapidly and flowing very fast so it was uh...unbelievable situation for me I...I recognize...having watched the river for years, I...I immediately went up in the city hall and I called the state disaster office. They didn't know up from down. I said we are getting ready to have the biggest flood this community has ever seen and I said I want you guys to start helping us get ready, you know, for some disaster relief...

J: This in Charleston?

BM: Yeah. Course they didn't know what to do and I think the...the...and the state really got an education on the disaster relief with the seventy-seven flood. They were absolutely unprepared uh...you know they just...just ...nothing they you know just didn't have anything uh...and that river kept coming up...coming up and finally you know we...we at that point...we were just running from the river we....everything...we were always uh...uh...behind..usually we could anticipate the rising waters and would move things and whatever, but uh...we were just...we got out of city hall...waded out of there knee deep and uh..started helping people uh...at that time...helped some people on the back streets move out. I know that uh...uh...uh...Ernest Ward and his wife and uh....Louise uh... Darwin and Buster Darwin who uh...a black family. He was in a wheel chair. He couldn't walk and they moved them into our mother's home uh...thinking that it was gonna be uh...they'd be...okay, there which we were right across from the bank and it never flooded there before and uh...several other people came up uh..uh...and were staying with...with...there at my mother's house and we were moving people out that were in these flood hazard...what was before flood hazard areas and moving there stacking there furniture up and whatever else you know uh...and the river kept coming up...coming up so uh...uh..at that time, we were ready...we had uh...Hatfield-McCoy Ford had moved a bunch of cars over here from the uh...by the railroad on this elevated platform and behind town here which was so called high ground and uh...the police cruiser was right here in this area too and that was...at that point we had already lost communications you know...knocked down some telephone lines and whatever and that was our only communications with the radio with the county so uh...we decided were gonna have to get our police cruiser at least across...across the railroad to...so we can have some sort of radio communications and uh....uh...Roger Gilliam, I think he had his back hoe there and we pulled up some railroad ties off the spur line there and...and put them across the railroad...the main line there and made a little uh...road across the track and we moved that...our police cruiser across and with...and damaged it a little bit and small automobiles...

J: Was Roger Gilliam the fire chief at this time?

BM: Yeah. He was the fire chief and uh...superintendent of...no, he wasn't superintendent of the water works then, he was the...I guess he was uh...Tony Carrico's uh...uh..right hand man. He also drove a bus for the county at that time to make a living he had to do a bunch of things when he worked for the town of Matewan but we got the police cruiser across and the water was coming up and at that...it was starting to come in these stores on...on the high side of the street and it had never flooded any of those places before so these merchants had...they had stacked merchandise as it was coming in on their highest shelf expecting that to do the job and uh...it seemed that it was no quicker than we got that car...cruiser across the highway then water started coming in my mother's back door. Of course it had never flooded there ever and we ran over there and uh...started moving my mother's things upstairs. It was a two story house and we were fortunate to get most of her things upstairs uh...there was quite a few pieces of furniture we didn't but we had all these people, old people in there that water kept coming and coming and coming and it got to I think about the second to the last step and this upstairs uh...the house and I had my daughter who was just, she was just a young thing uh...she was just a kid. I'm trying to think how old she might have been, six years old or so in seventy-seven. SHe graduated a couple of years. She was older than that. She was just a child and we had my grandmother, my mother and some other old people uh...Ernest Ward...who was...he walked on a cane and at that time the water...it got...I thought maybe it might get up in the second story and cars were ramming into the house and uh...the house was creaking and I thought it was gonna you know very good possibility that the house might be washed away because this...this river was continuing to come right down the main street. Were talking about a torrent not a back water like we'd had before but a torrent of water that was carrying automobiles and all...all kind of things. Furniture uh...earlier in the day we had seen a dog on top of a dog house go down the river. Houses were going down the river. I mean you could just see you know the...it was unbelievable uh...the...we would hear uh...a building like the clinic break away from its foundation and uh...huge crack and bang and it would go...you know it would tear away and go down the river. This was dark uh....one of the things that scared me most and may have been less dangerous so we had a large propane tank uh...rolled down the street and hit the house and hit...the valve came loose and made this terrible noise. I thought there was going to be an explosion and uh...also, on top of that we had all these gas tanks in Matewan here, they had uh...dumped their fuel in town and we had all this gas and you could really smell it and there was a possibility that had someone maybe uh...it could have been ignited you know laying on top of the water. very very strong so we were concerned about that but late that night, I don't know what time, uh...a boat uh..came by and we were able to get these people out of the house. I was always...thinking all along that I was going to have to swim for our...you know swim for life and I was trying to decide well who was going to go you know and Judy, my wife and I and my mother could probably swim for our...we were strong enough but uh...Kristen and uh...the older people you know I just didn't see any hope for them makin' it and I'm not so sure I could have made it because it was uh...it was very strong current and lots of debris in it but we got a boat down in and took us out And brought us over to the uh...warm hollow where I live.

J: Was this a power or a row boat?

BM: It was a power boat. No way a row boat could have made that through that. It was uh...all that thing could do to stay in that you know to keep the current from washing it down the street. Excuse me. So we shuttled these people over in Warm Hollow and took 'em up to our house and we had all kinds of people up there. Three people in the bed you know. I slept on the floor. Judy and I did uh...the next morning, of course we were out of power, out of heat, and it was cold to. The next morning we got up and it was snowing and real cold outside. Real cold inside. We had a bunch of old people and they were cold you know and uh...so we...

J: Was the state on the scene by this time?

BM: No...no...no...no...no...no...the river...I don't know when the...I'm trying to think when the water went down uh...late that evening or the next day and it may have been uh...but the state, they were the last people here you know, as a matter of fact as I recall the first people that had really come to assist the damages were the telephone company and the utility companies and the state was the last of course the state was damage...you can understand they had so limited...their resources were so limited and the damage was so wide spread and.....

J: OKay.

BM: Continuing uh....but it was uh...the aftermath of the flood...it...the damage...the damages..we had never seen anything like this in our community. Most of the damages in years past were just...you'd have high water. The floors would buckle, and eventually, after a number of floods, the houses would just virtually rot down but this is the first time uh...in the history of the community, we had...the community literally washed off and we had uh...so in Main Street there was all kinds of automobiles turned over and on uh...and ruined uh..houses were and businesses uh...I can remember in the upper end of town, Benny Accica's uh...grocery store uh...was off its foundation sitting right in the middle of Route forty-nine and uh...the other...another...several other houses literally right in the main road. THey had to be bulldozed over to get through town and then uh...at the same time uh...you know within that couple days the state came in here and they condemned a bunch of properties that had been severely damaged and many of them were burned right in there...where they were you know especially up Mate Creek, there was a lot of substandard properties that were badly damaged and the state just torched 'em and uh..that became a problem later on. Some of those people were belly aching of the owners of the property but they...they were worthless you know uh...

J: How did uh...you go about rebuilding?

BM: Well let me say...while I'm thinkin' about it...let me say this, we didn't have any...we didn't have any water. We didn't have any food here and we didn't have any power uh...so we had to for...eventually the uh...National Guard came and set up kitchens so people could eat and I remember once a week we ate out of the National Guards's uh...uh...uh...you know out of...they were right over in Warm Hollow so we ate out...ate out of their mess uh...they were here to feed us and we did that and uh...we couldn't get a shower and man I tell you, after about a week one of...the first...I think the thing I enjoyed most was getting a shower and we, Judy and I went up to Dan Deaton who was president of the bank then uh...he invited us up to take a shower at his house. He was on the Red Jacket water system and they had a gravity system so it...they also had power so they...they were able to...we took a nice hot shower, and that was uh...we really enjoyed that and uh...you know those...it was a week or so before we got water in Matewan so...or longer. I can't remember but it was a long time and there's people didn't have...you couldn't wash clothes or anything you know uh....so there was a lot of hardships suffered in the cold...cold temperatures and it was uh...really cold. By that time of year, ha, I can remember that and I had to wear...we had to wear winter clothes and uh...we had an old fireplace in our house that we used to...to...it was very inefficient but we burned some old logs and carried water from off the hill to flush...flush the toilets with and uh...things like that so it was a hard life for awhile and I'm sure it was a lot harder for other people that were you know living as guests. I can't remember what you asked...asked...what was the question?

J: Yeah. Well, I asked...asked how did you go about rebuilding. I will also be interested to know did many people just not come back after the flood?

BM: Well, I think over the years that had been...every flood over the years, we'd lose people you know and the fifty-seven flood was probably in that respect may have been the most devastating flood uh...cause we lost a lot of good families that just left the...the flood hazard areas just left the community. People that had lived ...owned properties, taken care of the properties, had pride in their community, were members in the church and various civic clubs, and we lost those people. Those good families that could leave left and those properties fell in the hand of landlords you know. Slum lords instead of having a nice home that was painted frequently and the grass taken care of, we had a lot of properties that were owned...lived in by tenants and that were very undesirable you know...properties and we had to look at those for years uh...so but rebuilding the community uh..first we had a lot of help initially the...some of the coal companies pitched in with heavy equipment to move houses out of the road and clear the highways so we had a lot of...Old Ben Coal Company I know uh...uh...I can remember they sent down some equipment so other people had equipment up here and they cleaned off the streets so we could get through and then uh...later on disaster systems came in you know. We started hiring people uh...with disaster help to...to clean the mud off lots and debris and...and restore some other facilities...sidewalks and whatever so it took us a year to do...took us longer than a year but a year to do most of it....did most of the things you know rebuilding. It was a long time cause were talking about extensive damages and then even longer than that to build water you know water system and sewer system. We pieced together our water system and made it work and uh...

J: Did you have federal help for that?

BM: Well, disaster systems money yeah. But, we had to bring in parts and all kinds of stuff you know they flew in things that we need to put tax assistant together and build a temporary shed over the old...over the water works you know but that was...that was you know that's an important uh...community service utility...uh...that water utility. It took a long...it took some time to get all that back together. It was a long road back you know. Our businesses of course they had to borrow a lot of uh...most of them had never been flooded before and never saw the need for flood insurance so most of 'em were not insured at least the ones that were...had never been flooded before and the ones that were, we had flooding insurance available in this community. Alot of places didn't even have...they had never been flooded before and never saw the need for flood insurance so we had uh...some people had some flood insurance but a lot of people didn't have any so they had to borrow money. The SBA loans were made available for low interest rates and uh... for awhile you know they rebuilt their businesses and they looked pretty nice you know but they were heavily incumbered with uh...SBA uh...debt and still and all of them are now. THe ones that are still here.

J: Now, as you were involved in the process of rebuilding, how much of that was set back then with the eighty-four flood?

BM: Well, we were...

J: Was it as devastating as the seventy-seven?

BM: Well, it uh...wasn't...it wasn't...lets put it this way, it was similar...it like uh...eight feet less water but still our second largest flood in the history of the community but, through the years, so much had been washed away that probably the fifty seven flood which was many feet uh...uh...less that the eighty-four flood was more devastating because their was just more at risk...more property at risk so we lose uh...over the years of flooding, we lost all the homes that had been damaged in fifty-seven and businesses were no longer there, washed away. You understand what I am saying? Why the...the level of flood was greater, uh...the damage was less maybe in fifty-seven because these properties weren't there anymore so in eighty...in seventy-seven though we lost one third of our our building stock in the community. One third of it and uh....eighty-four was not nearly as devastating in that respect but it was uh...next you know for those people that were doing business in Matewan, at uh...you know damaged the buildings and contents. (Long Pause) My own building that I'm in right now and my uh...office building here. MY lower level was completely in..invaded with water and but I didn't get water here on my...in my office itself it missed it by eight inches. Eddie Nenni, next door, my building is about eight inches higher than his. He had about that much water...about probably about six inches water. A little bit less maybe but he had all the other businesses on this side of the street had water in them and mine was the only one that didn't because mine was just up eight inches higher. If you will look outside, there's one step that comes up to my floor level here.

J: Now you're very active with the Matewan redevelopment campaign uh...I'd like for you to explain what that is and what you all hope to accomplish and how you intend to go about that?

BM: Well, it started several years ago, really, in a discussion at rotary uh...and we were talking about across the dinner table, just about problems in this area and I think at the time, we may have been talking more about the liter problem and then we got into uh...our other problems which were a part of the education and economic development and all that and Dan Moore mentioned that he said you know, "If we , he would be willing to put some dollars into a uh...a really...an effort to try to change things." Now he said (tape cuts off) I should say Dan Moore, he was...when he said that he would be willing to...he was talking about the Matewan National Bank. He would at least petition them for an effort and...and he wanted a uh...a professional...you know a approach that would be over several years uh...look at a lot of problems and uh...uh...do something so really the Matewan Development Center evolved from that and what happened uh...we first decided that we...well we don't really know how to approach these problems and we thought maybe uh...we should have a study done and John Taylor had carried a a uh...article that he had read about a community, no unlike ours, as a matter of fact we uh....was out west and it was a lumber community and we...after reading it we said, everywhere they mentioned lumber we'd say coal and the community name we'd just stick Matewan in the circumstances were exactly the same and it was uh...an organization uh...in Colorado uh...uh...that uh...had done a study about economic revitalization and they did uh...they worked at uh..they were kind of a people level organization. Worked with people not with uh...in the abstract but talked you know...talked to people and about the problems and how they thought they could change...change things and in the end, uh...the uh...Matewan National Bank and uh...Rawl Sales and Processing, a local coal company, got together and said that they would commit money over five years to try to...as a redevelopment effort for the community. Each one pledged twenty thousand dollars. In the first year, we...we hired this fund to conduct a study uh...and address these....more particularly, I think we were looking at economic community development but other aspects of the community too such as the problem of littering and how people solve that problem and uh..so forth and so on and they was a lot of other elements that we were concerned about but in the end it became more or less economic development plan and from that study uh...as a...and having an office in the community a the center probably developed and uh...it we decided that we wanted to perpetuate that effort on an ongoing basis and the Matewan Development Center came about and after that study was done, we decided that the best thing to do at that point would be to hire a director and try to uh...continue forward on this uh..ideas of economic and community development and uh...I wasn't...I interviewed one that was a part of an interview for one, but of those people interviewed, Paul McAllister was interviewed and it was later decided that uh...that he had the credentials that we were looking for and he became the first director of the Matewan Development Center so uh...since he's been on board for just over a year now, just barely over a year, we have uh...our thrust has been to kind of uh..I would think uh...economic development. The restoration of our business community which is uh...sorely needed through exploring perhaps our historic elements of our community. The Matewan Massacre and the Hatfield and McCoy feud and doing uh...historic renovations and...and...and pursuing some other areas to try to bring some economic vitality back to the community.

J: Where does the Corp of Engineer project fit into the redevelopment plans?

BM: Of course it is real important and that...that...that I should say that the year...the frustrating part of this uh...was that uh...we...Matewan had...as I was mayor and before that as a town councilman, there had been a number of problems...studies done by the Corp of Engineers. Feasibility studies for different kinds of projects that would provide flood protection for the Tug Valley and of course for Matewan and uh..over the years, I'm gonna...I think uh...maybe not in this order but uh...we had Knox Creek uh...an impoundment that was supposed to reduce the amount of water and the flooding down stream from Knox Creek. Panther Creek was a similar uh...was a down Panther Creek up there near Iaeger uh...and then uh...uh...right before nineteen-seventy...and nineteen seventy-four after those smaller floods uh..there was uh...consideration for a main stem dam, I think it what they called it...right on the main and that was done in. Not feasible from a cost and lots of other reasons and then after seventy-seven flood when the whole valley was uh..flooded and uh...uh...a lot of people that weren't interested and didn't care about flood control became very much uh...concerned about it and things happened you know the politics so...so then the uh...idea for these local protection projects I think is what they and flood proofing which uh...entails building uh...local projects around some of the community centers like Matewan and Williamson and and Kermit at that time and flood proofing...raising and elevation homes in the area other area that were effected. Flood proofing those structures and became the plan that were under right now and of course our...our project has just now, after many years of planning, gotten off the ground and they had the property owners meeting uh...in May and were just starting you know but it is going to e very important. It's gonna provide several acres of flood free develop...developable land down town. It's gonna provide uh...uh...a residential development area in Matewan...up Mate Creek and it provides an opportunity for our community to grow and...and...and have nice housing and businesses that don't have to be threatened by floods. In the seventies, if we had this in the early seventies, coal boomed uh...uh...we would've...had we had this opportunity then, this, no telling what this community could've been. It could've really grown and been a substantial community as it was in the twenties and thirties.

J: This area as other areas in West Virginia and Appalachian as well have been largely dependent on coal economy through out their history do you see...what do you see the...the future of the dependents on a coal economy in this area?

BM: Well, you said largely, it has been the single you know...there's been some lumbering but those the number of jobs have been minor you know, it's a major industry but number of employed people it's just absolutely mining so everybody either produces coal or provides services to coal miners or to coal mines you know so its and absolute...its a coal driven economy and I don't...for the near future I don't see any hope for uh...diversification or any change from that and with the decline now and the number of employees required to mine the same amount of coal, or more coal uh...we see a declining uh...uh..work force and we see a large number of pensioners that are spending...that are still around you know either that resulted from Workman's Compensation or elderly so uh...we the number...I can only see a decline in uh...the population and uh...and the number of miners. I think it's bleak and I think we are going to continue uh...for the uh...for the near future to be dependent on coal and I only hope in our own community is...is perhaps to tap this uh...our history and hope for a little tourism and uh....how successful we'll be...remains to be seen but uh..at least we have a glimmer of hope there...

J: That leads right into the...my next final question, your...your obviously a man of vision but you also strike me as a practical analysist of economic situations, give me your perspective on the best case scenario for Matewan in say the year two thousand.

BM: Hm...well with, let me say one thing that we have...one little bright outlook now, the...the President of the United States just announced, President Bush, the clean air act which is going to move utilities away from high sulphur coal to low sulphur coal. For our immediate area, we happen to be a coal field that has those characteristics that the...that the market place is gonna demand. We had the so called high BTU low sulphur coal and were in the heart of that and this new development up Mate Creek is prime and uh...so our immediate outlook in that regard look good so this immediate area you know. That means that there will be some jobs and lots of coal will be mined in this immediate area uh...although I think its a...its...its overall the coal...the demand for coal whether not methanol uh...conversion plants are put in and that would be a possibility for uh...is another possibility as a result of this legislation but I think it looks bleak...looks very bleak. All I can see is that uh...the retired people as they die of course there's not going to be...not gonna to be replaced, I see fewer demands for housing. I'm talking about maybe in this region uh...fewer...fewer jobs, fewer demands for services and so forth. Right on down the line. I don't think it can be any other way. However, Matewan is gonna to be a desirable place to live in the coal fields of Southern West Virginia. I see that. Were gonna have uh...nice housing stock. We're gonna have the possibility to have a really nice community. A planned community with the flood wall so we might be able to overcome these problems uh...with the and...and maintain a..a community that still has some bright uh...uh...vitality by being a kind of an oasis in this uh...uh...this desert that..that the coal fields may become, because of the lack of jobs so I'm hopeful uh...but I'm not overly optimistic because it's uh..it's uh...it will be a you know, were years down the road from flood protection and uh...although those things seem to be pretty much assured now, there not absolutely certain you know they...we won't see, I'm not gonna...I won't believe it 'til I see it all there you know but the possibility is very good so we have...we have some uh...I think Matewan has some...has some future potential you know, I think we have uh...we can be...continue to be a community that's going to be vital but uh...it all hinges on flood protection on and all those other things that must come along to make this community work uh..so I'm...I'm concerned...I think the possibilities there but it's...there's no guarantee that could be tough sleddin' like its been in the past.

J: What are the possibilities for a highway access in this region?

BM: Well, that's probably our single...we are uh...that's why the Hatfield-McCoy happened that were so...it's why so many other problems we have. We are so isolated, uh...there's not a...you know we have to drive twenty, thirty mile to a decent highway so uh...there's no plans in the near future for a...even an upgrade on these roads which are terrible so I don't see in the near future, the best we can hope is for a four lane, a completed four lane within twelve miles of us which isn't terrible uh..as far as tourism goes, I think that we could probably overcome the problem but it is...it does create a problem for us that lives here you know these roads are rough. Curvaceous, poorly maintained. Coal traffic is keeps 'em disrepaired.

J: So as...at this time there is no formalized plan to overcome the...local roads anyway? BM: It's just a problem...no, I think were gonna have to just mitigate that problem by uh...uh..maybe playing up the...if were talking about tourism uh..uh... make, you know, this is I don't know how many people will be coming here frequently. I think maybe we might just make one trip down to Matewan but, uh...you might mitigate that problem by just saying there's no roads like it anywhere else in the world (laughter). Some of them might just want to come down here and drive to Matewan to be on the worst highways in America you know.

J: I survived a trip to Matewan.

BM: Yeah. right. I think that's uh...and thus far that's about all I can say period is I survived living in Matewan maybe.

J: Is there anything we haven't discussed you'd like to include uh...

BM: Uh..right now nothing comes to mind but I'm sure there'll be some things that uh...that may uh...it seems..it's hard to say having lived here for forty, uh now forty-four...lived here forty-three years I'm sure that it would be hard to discuss all that in an hour and a half or two hours like we have now so there has to be some other things in there. Maybe we will come back to them later.

J: We got plenty of tapes. Thanks.

BM: Okay.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection