Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

James Curry Interview

John Hennen: Sound check on microphone 1, interviewers microphone, June 29th, 1989. Sound check on mike 2, narrators microphone, June 29th 1989. This is John Hennen of the Matewan Development Center. Preparing to conduct an oral history interview with James Curry at his home in North Matewan it is approximately 10 a.m. June 29th. It is a Thursday. (This interview is with James Curry in his home at Red Jacket, West Virginia) Okay Mr. Curry what I'm basically going to do here today is ask you some general questions about your life personally and the...and the social life of the area. So I'll just start out with a couple of background questions to establish your basic facts about your upbringing here. Tell me when and where you were born and something about how your parents got in the area here.

James Curry: Well my parents came to West Virginia from North Carolina in 1917. and uh...they uh...stayed with my grand parents who were already here and uh...then my father moved to Sharples. Where me and my sister...I have a twin sister she's deceiced now. uh we were born in Sharples over there in Madison, West Virginia the county seat at that time and in later years they added Logan County. It had been changed from Boone it was Boone County then and they changed it to Logan County now. But in 1920 it was the 2nd day of February. So we...my dad came back here to Red Jacket in 1922. and started working here for Red Jacket Coal Company. They worked here for a while and then they left and went to Fulcan where he worked for the superintentent there P.J. Weens(?) He worked ther until 1926.

JH: Is Fulcan West Virginia or Kentucky.

JC: um...

JH: It's West Virginia

JC: It's West Virginia, yes sir.

JH: Okay.

JC: and then we come down to McCarr, Kentucky. and we moved up there it was named           Thacker then. It's McCarr now Kentucky and that's where I first went um...my schooling.

JH: in Thacker

JC: uh...huh Almer Thacker, but it's McCarr, Kentucky now.

JH: you and your sister went to school there

JC: yes

JH: okay. now was that...did you go to school with the white kids or was it all black school

JC: Well it wasn't about six...or seven children up there yeah they were black and white. you know...you know I mean they didn't have no...it wudn't you know the way they did they'd get a teacher in there for about a couple of months and the kids would go you know I couldn't say exactly what...it's been so long...my mother taking me to the school and uh...we set there maybe a couple of hours and she'd come and get us. It wudn't like a real enrollment. They had to pay out of their pocket for to get a teacher to teach us. So ordinarally I wudn't you know I wudn't like I said it was intengrated {sic] in a way that actually I don't remember but then I knew here I knew I was raised up with the white kids. And they was a few...oh I think they was somewhere around five...six black families up there and the rest of them white. And we all knew one another you know and they associated together you know. At that particular time I didn't know nothing about no racial bribes or nothing like that I just knew them and they knew...we played together and so forth. And then after my dad he uh...moved over on the           over there near Glen White over in Beckly [sic]. So he worked there for a while and then he came back to Red Jacket in 1929. We moved up Mitchell Branch and we stayed up there...he worked then we moved to Matewan. That was in 1931.

JH: Who was he working for in Mitchell Branch. Do you recall...

JC: He was working for Red Jacket Coal Company

JH: Red Jacket okay. And then you moved into Matewan when.

JC: In 1930...31 right in there. We lived there.

JH: now did you live right in Matewan or

JC: Right in Matewan.

JH: Where did you live there

JC: um...you know where the ????, uh....come in uh...to... comin' comin' out of Matewan there at the ????

John Hennen: Um-hum.

JC: To the right before you go under the ?????? there was a big two-story house and some buildings over there.

J: Okay.

JC: And we lived in that area next over next to the creek as you come down.

J: Now, who owned that house?

JC: At that particular time, Mary White. Uh...she lived and uh... she was a school teacher and we rented from her for four dollars a month and I cut wood to pay the rent.

J: And you were about ten years old? Okay.

JC: Um-hum.

J: So you paid the families rent. You earned the rent money by cuttin' wood?

JC: Yeah.

J: Did...did Mary White live in the house also?

JC: No...no. She lived in lower part of Matewan. And uh...we lived on this end. Here...she...we rented from her.

J: Okay. Did you know her very well? Mary White.

JC: Yeah.

J: What kind of a woman...lady was she?

JC: Well, she was a fine lady uh...uh...I worked for her after I grew up uh...she had moved in the Buskirk apartment in her later years and I had uh...you know, done cleanin' and took care of the Buskirk building and some of the tenants that lived in there. I washed windows, and scrubbed floors, and cleaned carpets, you know vacuum like.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And uh...she was a very fine lady and uh...she trusted me because at school, when she was at school, I was married, I was workin'...I was livin here.

J: Um-hum.

JC: In this present place where I live here. I moved up here uh...after we left Matewan, we moved to Glen Allen and that's where I first went to work. I went to work there the twenty second day of September, nineteen and thirty-three, I went to work in the mines at Glen Allen. I worked there for two years then we come back to Red Jacket at number six Red Jacket.

J: Um-hum.

JC: That was in 1939 and that's when now, they were dumpin' coal out in the bottom. That's when I worked there. Help loadin' the railroad car.

J: Okay. And that was...down here around where Montgomery Supermarket is?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Um...when you went to work in 1933, of course, you were only about thirteen years old then uh...what uh...what work did you do around the mines at that time?

JC: Trappin'.

J: Tell me what....tell me about that. I've heard...

JC: Trappin' is open and close the door just like when the motor comin' you uh....open the door a trap door, you open the door for the motor to come in and when he's in you close it and then uh...when he leave...a trap door, that was to keep air to the men in the mines as long as you open that door, see, it would take away some of the air. Short circuit the air so they had to be a door there. They called it trappin' and I went to work as a trapper.

J: Okay. Is that usually the short, sort of starting job somebody would have in the...in the mines when their young?

JC: Well, yes. Uh..and then track cleanin'. You know they was...cause I was gettin' a dollar and forty one cents a day.

J: For trappin'?

JC: Um-hum. And then later it raised uh...two...two dollars and you know, it just went up gradually, you know.

J: Un-hun. When were those mines uh...unionized?

JC: Well now um...hit was already unionized when I went to work but for a...in nineteen and thirty-five and thirty-seven uh...is when I become to know what was what you know. I had worked because they felt that...well at that time, you had to be a certain age.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And I put my age up to go to work. I lied.

J: Um-hum. How much did you have to move it up. Couple...

JC: Well I say, let me see, I was thirteen. I had to be seventeen you know. Lookin' for my eighteenth birthday.

J: Um-hum.

JC: So, I was a pretty big boy so, I needed the job and uh...

J: Now, did the people you went to work with really believe that you were seventeen or did they just...they wanted to work so they let you come on in?

JC: Well, they never said any...they never give me no problem you know.

J: Un-hun.

JC: Because you know, they was a lot of boys that went to work at that particular time and they's a lot of men walkin' up and down the road you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: So, I guess I was lucky one with the Lord's help and I didn't get a job and then I went to school in the winter. I had to come...the Board of Education paid our board. I went to Liberty High School.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And then in the summer time when school was out, I worked in the mine and then when I came down here, I uh...had quit school all together and went to work.

J: Now, where was Liberty High School?

JC: IN Williamson.

J: How did you get to school?

JC: A school bus.

J: Okay.

JC: Now from Glen Allen, beg your pardon now, from Glen Allen, we had to board in Williamson. We boarded down there.

J: So you went to school in Williamson when you lived in Glen Allen, also?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay.

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did you board with other students from the school?

JC: No, we had private homes. Private homes.

J: So Liberty, then, was a...was a black high school?

JC: Right.

J: Okay.

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay. Tell me about your course of work in the mines and that's..

JC: Well uh...after then my dad came back to Red Jacket in thirty-nine and I came with him and I got a job, like I said, out there uh...help loadin' the coal car. Then I went to work for Red Jacket Coal Company on the tipple. I was pickin' slate. I was slate pickin' uh...at that time, was makin' four dollars, three dollars, three dollars and somethin' a day. I was workin' overtime.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And uh...then I got married on 1941 on the twenty-ninth of March and I was makin' four dollars a day then and...

J: Where your at...did you work five day a week?

JC: No. Just work every now, you know, the coal company's workin' one and none you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And we'd go from mine to mine just like up uh...the mine was runnin', we could go and if somebody be off, we could go and fill in with extra days, you know, and uh...then later on uh...I was transferred down here to number six mines uh...and then after number six shut down, I was transferred to Junior...Junior Mines and I worked there for a while and then I went to 1951, I went to 17.

J: Where was that mine?

JC: That's uh...let me see, it's in Red Jacket but it's up here where the new, you know, project homes were rebuilt.

J: Um-hum.

JC: That's...it was in that area.

J: Okay.

JC: And I worked there until...I worked for 17 until Island Creek took over in fifty-six and I worked for them from fifty-six to sixty-seven on uh...the sixteenth of June, I come out the mine and...

J: Do you uh...

JC: I come out on a count of my health and retired.

J: Were you havin' uh...did you have trouble with black lung or...

JC: Um-hum. Yeah. I had trouble breathing and I had done various jobs uh...different types and the last part uh...I fir bossed for a few days in my brother-in-law's place and then I got so my wind was so short, I couldn't hardly make my round so I had to come out and then it took me four years to get my social security and the benefit and uh...I want to say that Red Jacket Coal Company was really good uh...during the time we worked, uh...a lot of times the days wasn't workin' and actually when you work, you didn't all the time have the time in there.

J: Um-hum.

JC: So, old man E.E. Ritter, he see that we eat. We...we would trade. They would allow you so much a day. Allow us three dollars a day. On Saturday, six dollars cause I had a family, you know,. and then when the work picked up, you know, things got better so I moved in this house here in 1943 in December.

J: Um-hum. And you...so you'd been married a couple of years when you moved in here.

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay.

JC: And we had two children.

J: What uh...what's your wife's uh...maiden name?

JC: Belcher. Olivia Belcher.

J: Okay. Now these houses here were, now this area's called New Center, is that correct?

JC: Um-hum.

J: And approximately, when were these houses built?

JC: They were built uh...they was completed in forty-three. Well they, I don't know, they started, you know, well I don't know. Couldn't say, but I'll say in forty-one or forty-two. Long enough to...well they completed it in forty-three.

J: Um-hum.

JC: CAuse I moved in here in December in forty-three and I'm the only one that's ever lived in this house. And later on, I was payin' twelve dollars a month rent and then they decided to sell and then I bought.

J: So Red Jacket built the housing?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Then you...you bought the house from Red Jacket?

JC: Right. Um-hum.

J: Were you able to apply any of the rent money you'd paid toward the purchase price or did you have...

JC: Well, what I done I...they taken it over the payroll. That's the way we paid unless we...I paid for mine...

J: Un-hun.

JC: Over the payroll and then at the last, you know, I was able to obtain enough to pay the rest of it off and I went from that.

J: When you moved in here, what was the lay out of the house like?

JC: Well, it had four rooms. It had four rooms and they were all green. All the houses here were green. had...had plank fence and they were green and well the houses had...they had good lumber. It was the best ever known.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And then we painted and so forth, so on tryin' to make it look like home and then later on when uh...the work got better and a little money began to, you know, come in a little better then we uh...remodeled to this present. We had four rooms...

J: And did the house have uh...electricity and indoor plumbing when you moved in?

JC: No...no. Had elec...had electricity but no indoor plumbing.

J: Okay.

JC: Uh...we...then we had outside outhouses.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And, so it was just like I said we had uh...a little short, small front porch. Had a small back porch and uh...later on, as I said we...remodeled and I had uh..you know, enlarged it to uh...

J: When did you get uh...Oh, sorry.

JC: With the...the livin room here, I got six rooms and a bath now.

J: So is the house, is it approximately double the size that it originally was or maybe not?

JC: Um-hum. Well see now, this was two rooms right there is the divider.

J: Um-hum.

JC: That was two rooms so we take the petition out and enlarged the whole room um...my kitchen is the same way. I had built on to my kitchen to make it length it is now and the regular rooms are the same size I had the room on the back. Two rooms and a bath built on the...

J: Um-hum.

JC: back of the house.

J: When did you get uh...indoor water...indoor plumbing?

JC: I believe in was nineteen and sixty.

J: Okay. Did you hook to the...is there...was their a Matewan water system at that time or...

JC: Red Jacket.

J: Red Jacket?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay.

JC: Red...Red Jacket Water Works was...I think it was owned by Cassion Water Company and uh...and I had uh...indoor plumbing put in and had a bathroom and everything put in.

J: Let's see. When were your children born?

JC: Well, my daughter, my oldest daughter was born uh...October the twenty-first, nineteen and forty-one. My next daughter was born June the sixteenth, nineteen and forty-three. My next daughter was born uh...January the thirtieth, nineteen and forty-six. My oldest son, he was born, let's see, nineteen and forty-nine, twenty second of September. My next son was born March the twentieth, nineteen and fifty-one. My next son was born May twenty-eighth, nineteen and fifty-three. My baby boy was born June the twenty-sixth, nineteen fifty-four. We only have seven.

J: You had three daughters and then four sons?

JC: Four sons. Un-hun.

J: Where did your uh...your older kids uh...start school? When'd they go to school?

JC: At Liberty High School.

J: Liberty High?

JC: Um-hum.

J: So they were still were...were ridin' the buses...

JC: Right.

J: Over to Williamson then?

JC: Um-hum. And we were livin here and they was ridin' the bus.

J: How long a ride was that? Say...say in the..when the weather was good. How long would they spend on the bus?

JC: Actually I...I couldn't say. I...because they had to pick up from here to Williamson. I guess they had to pick up in Lobata and Serosas and had it's pick up in Merrimac and Rawl so I..I...I wouldn't want to say. It took quite some time to go and come. The bus run kind a early.

J: Um-hum.

JC: For them to get there.

J: So they spent right much time on that bus every day then?

JC: True.

J: Now, when did the uh...when were the schools in Matewan opened up to your kid?

JC: When they inograted (integrated), I think it was in fifty-seven. 1957 I believe when the school's inograted cause I know my oldest daughter she was uh...one of the first blacks to uh...-graduate, I believe. Any way, she graduated in fifty-seven

J: Um-hum.

JC: And, that's along, bout when the school inograted cause from then on, the, all of my kids had graduated from...even my grandchildren.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Um-hum.

J: They've all gone through uh...Magnolia?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Was there any uh...difficulty or resistance in immigration uh..in the Matewan area that you recall?

JC: Well, as far as I know, we didn't have no problems. We didn't have no...there was a few hecklers, you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: But nothing serious. Nothing serious everybody...well most everybody knew everybody.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And uh...no problem. We've always been able to get along without any problems.

J: Andrew told me uh...Andrew Crockett told me about the movie theater down town but uh...now of course it was racially separated...

JC: Um-hum. Yeah.

J: Back in the...when...when you first...

JC: Black's was upstairs and the white was downstairs.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And uh...well there's now, I remember when I went to the show, to the movie, uh...on Friday night's they were cheap. You could go for a nickel. Kids you know, uh...on Saturday's it cost you a dime to go to the movie's. tHat was back in nineteen and thirty-one, thirty-two. Around like that. Frank Allara, he was the...the owner, the operator.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And uh...for...for a brief time, I tried to get a job there, you know, cleanin', deal that I know was successfully? by my job...I had a job shinin' shoes. I shined shoes there in Matewan uh...right now where the liquor store is. THat was a barber shop. ????????????????????? ran the shop and I shined shoes.

J: Um-hum. How long were you at it...did you stay at that?

JC: Well about uh...from thirty-one to thirty-two and then I...I joined the church. I joined the church and was baptized and I joined the church in thirty-two and I've been a member of this church fifteenth of July will be fifty-seven years.

J: What's the name of the church?

JC: Nine eleven and Baptist Church? .

J: Who are some of the pastor's that you've had at that church in fifty-seven years?

JC: Well uh...when I joined the church, J.W. Studemeyer? He was a pastor and then after he died, Reverend James Washington, he was a pastor, and after Reverend Washington died, Reverend Wagner, and after Reverend Wagner died, I taken care of the church for about seventeen months as a deacon.

J: Un-hun. Did you preach?

JC: No...no...I'm just a deacon.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And I was elected pulpit committee and then we'd called the present pastor, Eugene Johnson. Now he's been pastorin' in the... from...well his anniversary is seven, eight, somewhere along there.

J: Um-hum.

JC: He's been pastorin'. And he is the present pastor now.

J: Do you go to church every week?

JC: Yeah. Well, we have our regular services the first and third Sunday's.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And we have Sunday school, superintendent of the Sunday school...we have Sunday school every Sunday. Then we have our regular service twiced a month. Our pastor, he's pastor of two churches.

J: Now, I believe, I've heard of Reverend James Washington, I want to see if this is the same ??? I've hears about was involved in the 1960's with the fair elections?

JC: Well, that was his father.

J: His father?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay.

JC: He was named uh..James Washington too. Uh...he was the junior.

J: Okay.

JC: But uh...it was his father. Um-hum.

J: What were...were you involved at all with that...the fair elections campaign?

JC: Yeah.

J: Tell me what was goin' on there. I'm real interested in that...

JC: Well uh...most in general, is uh...the way uh...they called it Polit...Political Action Agency which uh...we were a part of and we tried to demonstrate fair election. Oh, at one time, they was paid so much to vote, they would give whiskey to you know, vote and what they tried to do, they tried to stamp that out and the people that was best suited for the job, that's who we supported. Now, I never have been a man to tell somebody how to vote. I vote my assembly and I figure everybody has the same problem and i never would lie about my vote because that's the only free thing I had and I didn't have to lie. If a man would approach me and ask me would I vote for him, I'd tell him Yes, I'd vote for him. If I'd tell him I'd vote for him, I would do that. As far as puttin' stickers and things on my car, if I got to put somethin' up in the front of my house to prove to you that I'm gonna vote, you don't have no confidence in me no way so I don't carry no stickers on my car. I don't put no fliers on my house or nothin' like that. Because it's my own chosen to vote and uh...I'm not under no obligation to be paid to vote.

J: So some of the...it was fairly typical then for some of the political campaigners to...to buy votes then?

JC: That's right. Um-hum. And that's what they were tryin' to get a fair election to those that uh...would...that we believed was honest in doin' so. Now I'd speak up for men that I felt would do the job. (tape cuts off)

JC: And uh...just on his way out, I believe, in doin' things because when you have to pay a man to vote, in other words, if you tell me say James, If you vote for me, I'll give you two dollars, and then I vote and you give me two dollars. Then you don't carry out what you said you was gonna do, I have no complaint because when I come to you I'll say, you didn't do what you said. And you say well, I don't owe you nothin', I paid you two dollars. So I bought your vote and I can do as I pleased so therefore, that's what caused me to be against buyin' votes.

J: So then you were, would you say you were actively involved in this campaign. The fair elections...

JC: OH, yeah.

J: Okay.

JC: Very much so.

J: Who were some of the other folks that you worked with on that uh...campaign?

JC: Um...this uh...Spence over here in Delbarton. He's mayor, he's a law enforcer now.

J: Okey Spence?

JC: Okey Spence and uh...I can't remember uh...I just can't remember a lot of names. I remember Okey uh...personally and James Washington and uh...THere's a lot of more that was involved mostly from Delbarton and this area.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And it was for a good cause.

J: Now, I would assume, that in a way, not in a way, you were directly challenging a sort of a political machine, I guess. Did you come across...did you come up against any uh...resistance to that uh...or...

JC: Well you'd always have opposition. Uh...everybody that thought they was candidate the best and they did have you know, some, the difference there, you know, Well, I had to haul voters. I hauled voters. I worked in the house. Uh...but when...when I would haul voters. When I was hired, they would pay me so much to haul voters. I didn't have no particular person. I got up early in the mornin' and who's ever will, let him come.

J: Oh. Okay. You...you weren't just haulin' voters that were votin' for one particular candidate?

JC: THat's right. I...I would uh...you know, if they ask me who I was for, now a lot of them have..have asked me, and I told them.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Se.. But I say now, because your ridin' with me, your not under no obligation to vote for who I'm votin' for. I said cause now, they hired in the democrat car and I hauled democrat voters. I hauled independents. I hauled republicans.

J: Um-hum.

JC: See. Uh...they...when I hauled...when I go to their house, I ask them has they been down to vote. Do they want to go vote? Yeah. Load up, take them, and bring them back. I worked in the house and uh...

J: Now you say you worked in the house. You mean in the...where people were voting?

JC: Yeah.

J: Okay. Where were the votes usually held?

JC: Well, now, I worked uh..no, my voting precinct was 56 precinct down here at North Matewan, but I worked in the house at 57 precinct at Red Jacket.

J: Un-hun.

JC: I worked, you know, worked in the house up there just seein' the voters and so forth and so on. We had secretary. I was commissioner and uh...headed the election. See that everything was carried out right. See that they was registered by the clerk and see that they voted right. You know, they'd uh...independents. THey could vote or one person in a booth at a time and uh...how it was set up you know. The clerk would give, if you were republican, she'd give you a form and you'd sign your name, then you go vote, you know, and they hand you a ticket and you go vote.

J: Did many uh...blacks run for...for office in Mingo?

JC: Hun- un. No. Very few, I uh...remember Drewy Cullim? runnin' for House of Delegate oh, in the later years, this Hambrick, he ran for an office uh...Harry Joyce had ran for office uh...wudn't too many blacks that would run for office.

J: un-hun.

JC: And...

J: I'm gonna back track again now, back in the thirty, thirty-one and thirty-two, I think you said it was when you were shinin' shoes down town.

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did you have any big tippers? Did people tip you very well?

JC: Well, yes. Uh...just like on paydays now, shoe shines was a dime. Oh, I had a little sayin' that you know, advertise my business. I said "shoe shine, two nickels or one dime, brogans any kind" and on Saturday's you know, their payday, I would get twenty-five and uh...some time, they'd give me thirty-five or forty cents for a shoe shine and uh...I made pretty good money cause I wasn't the only shine...shoe shine boy. They was some more, you know, shinin' shoes then some was walkin' the street with their little box, you know.

J: Un-hun.

JC: But most of the time, where I had it, then is when they'd come in to get their hair cut or then some would off the street because I done a good job you know and uh..cause they was a little action in it, you know, you put a little show as you go along and I guess. that helped to bring in business to you know.

J: Now...

JC: Keepin' the rag you know and goin' on.

J: That make them think your workin' real hard, I guess huh?

JC: Well, it just see him, that rag pop, you know.

J: Un-hun.

JC: You know, just uh..well you now, it was just somethin' entertain for you, shinin' shoes just to get something for the dime, you know.

J: Yeah.

JC: So they'll come back again. Uh...Yeah. some of them would give tips and I think the biggest tip I got was fifty cents, you know and uh...well I thought that was great you know, and at the end of the day, I'd sit down and count my money and some day's I'd make six dollars or some day's I didn't do as well or during the week I'd make two, you know, two or three dollars a day and then, that was good money at that particular time.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And uh...

J: Now, did you have to uh..you say you worked in the barber shop there.

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did you have to pay a fee to set up there or they just wanted you to be there?

JC: Um-hum. No...no, I just kept the place clean.

J: Okay.

JC: At the end of the day, I would clean up you know, and mop the floor and clean up all the hair. I'd mop the floor then I'd mop my stand. I had a marble shoe shine stand. Where they step up on. I'd clean that and everything just to keep the building clean, they'd let me shine shoes there.

J: Now, tell me the name of that shop again.

JC: Uh...

J: Or who worked there.

JC: Well uh...I...I don't know the name of the shop right now but the..Mus Stafford and Lana (Landon) Keesee was the barber.

J: Okay.

JC: Maybe they was someone else the might can remember the name of the shop.

J: Now did they uh...were their customers exclusively white or did they cut uh...black hair?

JC: White. White only.

J: Where did blacks go to get their hair cut?

JC: Well, uh..they had black barbers uh...Williamson mostly. They'd go to Williamson and get their hair cut.

J: Okay. Didn't have any in Matewan then?

JC: Hun-un. Just uh...you know, different ones, just like my boy here, he'll cut hair but he doesn't have license and...

J: Un-hun.

JC: But the licensed barbers was in Williamson and...and in the later year uh...this back guy, he set up a shop up here in Red Jacket cause he cut white and black you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And uh...other than that, you have to got to Williamson. It was segregated to a certain extent.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And...so all white went there to the barber shop.

J: Now, there was fellow, I think this fellow business was down town. I'm sure you knew him. A man named Brown that had a laundry?

JC: John Brown?

J: Un-hun.

JC: Yeah.

J: Where was his store?

JC: Well, he had a shop right there in the house, I mean across the...you know where the CAA building..the head...head start buildin'?

J: Yeah.

JC: District CAA building. Well., he owned that building. And he had a shop there uh...at one time I the same house that we lived in in nineteen and thirty, thirty-one, then he later moved there and he had a place of business there or you know, uh...dance place and everything and he owned over there where uh...his family lives there now. His wife and family and uh...

J: So he had a...a dance hall down town there?

JC: Hum?

J: He had a dance hall?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay. What was the name of that? Do you remember?

JC: Oh, we just say John Brown's place. (laughing)

J: John Brown's place?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did he have live music come in and play there?

JC: No..no. He just had uh...nickel machine, you know.

J: Un-hun.

JC: We called them picollolies then.

J: Picollolies?

JC: Un-hun. Yeah. THat's what they danced by then.

J: Now, when was that big, on the weekends?

JC: Um-hum. Yeah. On the weekends and, well they's some you know, go through the week you know, whatever the case you know, what ever the case may be, they go and sit around and talk, you know, and uh...then on Saturday's and Sunday's, maybe, on Friday nights when things would start you know, then Saturday and Sunday, then Monday, back to work.

J: Yeah.

JC: You now. (laughing) Um-hum.

J: Now, was John Brown's place uh...were the customers black and white?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Okay. So that was a...that was mixed then?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did he serve uh...alcohol there? (laughing) What other uh...what other forms of recreation was in...well in Matewan and Red Jacket both, not just dancin' and music, but sports and that type of thing?

JC: I, none far as I know uh...most of the time for recreation was when they didn't go down...they had house parties, you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: So...went house to house you know, on weekends and so forth.

J: So, you'd start out at one house and maybe go to another house?

JC: Um-hum. Um-hum. Wherever...wherever the most liquor was served. That's where the crowd would be.

J: Is that right? (laughing)

JC: Yeah.

J: So people found out...

JC: Everybody would chip in and buy whiskey...

J: Un-hun.

JC: Or, if they would come to my house, we had a lot of parties here at my home uh...I had, gotten out the church and uh...so I...say I went back out in the world, you know, big timin' and I'd buy whiskey and my friend come in and we'd drink and just have a good time, you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Nobody kicked on it or you'd go to other houses and do the same thing you now, then if your money got short, everybody'd go down and chip in and buy you know, and that's the way they had...had a lot of fun.

J: Did you buy from uh...state stores or were the bootleggers around that you could pick it up from?

JC: Well, they were bootleggers and then we bought from the state store.

J: Un-hun.

JC: Yeah.

J: Now, Andrew used to tell me a little bit about the, the Red Jacket baseball teams. The company teams. Was that goin' on. Did you play or got o any of these games or...

JC: No I...yeah, I remember that uh...Red Jacket, at one time, would hire boys that could play ball. I know of a...a couple of boys livin at Chattaroy now, Thomas Allen, uh...I think he was hired to play ball for Red Jacket and uh...course I wasn't too much into you know, cause most of the time, I was...I was a singer.

J: Singer?

JC: Um-hum. And I'd go to different places and sing. Had a group, I broadcast...

J: Tell me about that?

JC: Well, I had a group was the Golden Trumpets, here at Red Jacket and then I sang with the Pond Creek Silver Tongue and broadcast over WBTH.

J: Now, where's that station?

JC: In Williamson.

J: Okay.

JC: I also broadcast over WLSI in Pikeville and we broadcast on WHJC in Matewan.

J: Now, what sort of music did you sing?

JC: Just acappella, quartets sings. Spiritual singin'.

J: Is that right?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Now, would this be gospel music?

JC: Gospel music. Yeah.

J: I'll be darn. So no uh...no music behind you? Acappella?

JC: No, we didn't have any music.

J: Who were some of the other guys that you sang with? The other singers?

JC: Um...this Preacher Howard. Elsie Howard. He lives down in the camp here and uh...Plessie Joplin and Erin Delop Jr., Charles Bridey, and James Martin, um...Mose White.

J: Now these are, I would assume the makeup of the group changed form year to year or every couple years.

JC: Um-hum. Right Yeah. Um-hum. And then I sang with the Moury Harmonizers in Logan County.

J: The what harmonizers?

JC: The Moury..

J: Moury?

JC: The Moury Harmonizers.

J: In Logan County?

JC: Um-hum. And I also sang with the Pioneer Five in Logan County.

J: And still...is this still spiritual and gospel music?

JC: Um-hum. All spiritual.

J: Now did you all go to church meetings and revival meetings and sing and things like that?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Tell me about the revival uh...?

JC: Well, uh...most of the time we sang, just whatever church was goin' to invite us, we would go and sing uh...we'd sing at most of the churches around here. McVeigh and Hardy and uh...Mc-Andrew and uh...of course Red Jacket. We used to have all night singin' conventions.

J: At Red Jacket?

JC: At Red Jacket uh...Red Jacket four. They were a white group uh...the Harmonizers, they were a white group and I was the manger of the Harmonizers.

J: Un-hun.

JC: They were white group and we went in Inez, Kentucky and uh...Tazewell, Virginia.

J: So these all...these all night uh...meetings that you had. Where would you...where did you have those in Red Jacket?

JC: At the church. Uh...At our church.

J: At your church?

JC: Um-hum.uh...they have at uh..they've had it at the school house. the junior high school up here at Red Jacket. They'd have all night singin' conventions.

J: Now, were these conventions...

JC: Groups from everywhere.

J: Okay. Were they part of a...were there to be preachin' also?

JC: No...no.

J: Or just singin'?

JC: Just singin'. Just singin' is all.

J: THat's great.

JC: They have a choirs and trios and quartets, quintets and solos.

J: Was it like a competition or just people..

JC: No...no.

J: Get together and sing?

JC: Just get together and sing.

J: I see.

JC: Just a night of singin'.

J: All spiritual?

JC: All spiritual.

J: And were all the groups acappella or did some of the groups have bands with them?

JC: Well, some of the white group had guitar.

J: Um-hum.

JC: But uh...now none of the blacks had uh...no music what-so-ever. Tell that now, later years, they got guitar and uh...cause it was hard for me to sing with the music because I had...I was used to singin' without music.

J: Un-hun.

JC: But I learned to do so with a pianer (piano) and a guitar so later on, they got a group now, around here, a colored group is uh...The Swans.

J: And they have music along with them?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Yeah. THey have. THe Spiritual Swans. They...down now, at Lobata West Virginia.

J: What kind of training did you have for singin'? Teach yourself?

JC: Me and my mother and them and my father. My father, he was a preacher.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And my mother, she taught us from the knee, my parents was very religious and uh....I was brought up in the church.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And we just started singin' from there. She was something like a devotional leader. My mother was, she opened the services you know, with prayer and singin' and without any music. Everybody'd just join in and let their voices blend together.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And later on, they uh...as I said, they got, added music to the church but they used to didn't be any. Not...not that they had anything against it, just wasn't anyone to play.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And but, later on, at uh...the young people had gone out and taken music lesson and came back and you know, played for the church.

J: Now, you say your father was a preacher.

JC: Um-hum.

J: This was while he was workin' in the mines I guess?

JC: Oh, yeah.

J: Preached on Sunday's?

JC: Un-hun.

J: Okay. Did he preach pretty regular like...

JC: Well, uh...no, he didn't preach unless he'd be called, well he was associated minister with the church and most of the time he went to church here or if he was called somewhere, he would go, NOw he was one of the four young ministers that had gone to Africa. He went to Africa and he preached in Africa. That was years and years ago. Um...then after he come now, he...he pastored at Majestic one time and uh...he held service up there at ?????? for awhile to you know, it...most of them people wudn't you know, didn't go to church at that particular time but the few that go, that he would go and preach and just...just a get up and go. Uh...if you want me, I'll come. If not, I'll be available.

J: Un-hun.

JC: It's a thing like that.

J: Did he also preach at...at funerals or...

JC: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He performed weddings and everything. He was ordain minister.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Um-hum.

J: What were the circumstances of his goin' to Africa? Was that on a missionary trip?

JC: THat was a missionary. Um-hum.

J: Okay. Were funeral services held in the church or in the home generally?

JC: In the church.

J: In the church?

JC: Um-hum. MOst of the time, in later years, they would bring the body home for over night and then the next day to the church. It wasn't...back then, it wasn't no funeral preached at the funeral home. We always go to you know, bring the body to the church and we'd come home at night and the next day it would be taken to the church. Now, they change, they...they have the funeral in the funeral home or they'd lie and stayed at the church all night or they'd be taken to the church uh...maybe an hour before service and everything. They have you know, moved up progress from the old type of... you know...But they still is carried out in the same tradition. They's just...they just don't go back and got through all of that home goin'. Some of them still do.

J: Um-hum.

JC: I know...I said, I told my wife if anything happened to me, I wanted to be brought back home.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And...that night and then be taken to the church the next day. I didn't want no long funeral because I believe you preach the funeral as you live so you live, so you die and uh...regardless of what people might say, if your soul is not right, your lost and all you can say, and all the preachin's not gonna correct it.

J: Yeah. Can't really buy your way in at...at the end huh?

JC: That's right. That's right. And that's why now, Course I've been uh...ordain deacon for quite some time I had uh...you know, I strayed away but uh...the lord has forgive me and I said for the last fifteen years, I been doin' close and closely every day.

J: Closer and closer huh?

JC: Yeah. Um-hum. I gave up drinkin', give up smokin' and try to live for the Lord. And the mostly thing is the hardest thing and then it's not hard too, but love your neighbor's yourself. Uh...that's been one of my uh...you know, fears, not a problem in a way, but when you thank of it, you don't want to tell no lie uh..do you love your neighbors as yourself. Or would you go all out for that? (tape cuts off)

J: Okay. Now, Mr. Curry, I knew you told me earlier that your granddad came into this area or your grandparents came into this area in about 1917.

JC: Um-hum.

J: From North Carolina. Is that correct?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Uh...why did they come to this area?

JC: Well, uh...the work...the work and facilities was better uh..he was uh...tobacco farmer. They raised tobacco. They heard that the coalmines was doin' great and payin' big wages so they came from there to earn money you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Where there...just what you say, the grass is greener over on the other side.

J: Um-hum.

JC: I'm sure that was they purpose for comin', you know and after getting here, they just remained here and times got better and uh...they just remained here 'til...raised their families here and they offsprings.

J: Now, was your father working in the mines during the strikes years of twenty and twenty-one?

JC: Um-hum. Yeah. I remember one time that I...he...they had a...they were on Blair Mountain. They had a...a shoot out on Blair Mountain and he was caught over here away from home and it was two weeks before he could get back to Sharples across Blair Mountain.

J: Was he at Blair Mountain during that shoot out or was he just...

JC: Well no. He..he was here but he couldn't get back ...se we lived at Sharples...

J: Oh. I see.

JC: But he couldn't get back home. He come over here. I don't know for what so he was at Sharples that time he come over here to visit I imagine and um...and of course of the firin' you know, and everything, he wasn't able to make it back cause later on now, he was uh...in Matewan when they had this to do.

J: Oh, he was?

JC: Strikin'. Yeah. Uh...I used to hear him talk cause uh...???? and uh...cause we...we...we wasn't allowed to repeat what our parents say uh...our parents was noted...would sit in the home or stay in the home.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And that, I was brought up in that kind of environment so we never repeated what mom and dad say. I used to hear when people come to visit. He'd sit up there and explain it to them and tell what he went through with and everything but we weren't allowed to speculate.

J: You would hear your grandfather?

JC: Oh, no now, my grandfather, he...I didn't know too much about him...

J: OH. So you'd hear your dad explain?

JC: My dad. Um-hum. My grandfather, I never...well, I knew him. We stayed there with him but we were small and uh...he died when we was young and uh...my mother and...them moved out and uh...so they wa...they was here in the surrounding area. Just like I said from Sharples to Red Jacket into Matewan. One house in Matewan, course it's tore down now, but of course, my family loved Matewan. We lived in the same house three times. We'd move away and come back and move in the same house.

J: Was this the house that Mary White owned?

JC: Oh no...no. No. this was uh...

J: Okay.

JC: THis was a different house. It was up there in ????. It was a house there at the crossing. You go down to the crossin' a goin' into Matewan, it was a house sit their to the right. Curse it's torn down now and it was three houses there. A two-story house. George Steele lived in it and his son lives in Matewan now. They run...they run florists. Steele's Florist.

J: Oh. Yeah. Okay.

JC: And they lived in that same area, you know. They lived in big two-story white house and they was uh...we lived on the end house then there was another long house uh...I don't remember...the Roberson's I think. I'm not sure that they lived in that house but I know George Steele and his boy's, his wife, Maude, lived in the white two-story house and I've known him all my life.

J: Was your dad, during that strike period, was he...was he involved with the union or kind of caught in the middle or what?

JC: Well, he's caught in the middle in a way because you know, he was without work, you know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And after a time, we had to stay in tents. We had to stay in tents. So um...just like I say, he didn't talk too much around, you know, we...we over heard the conversation. But like I say, we wasn't allowed to repeat anything so it, you know, is from what he say.

J: Um-hum.

JC: You know and we didn't repeat it enough to know exactly what was goin' on, you know, because as soon...very...out of our minds you know, because at that time, the children was more obedient to parents than they are now. Least, I thought so. Pardon me. I thought they was. I know that's...that's the way we were brought up.

J: Now, it seems like that uh...particularly that strike period in twenty and twenty-one, uh...many people didn't want to talk about it for years and years.

JC: True.

J: Just generally, why do think that was?

JC: Well, actually, I wouldn't know. Uh....it look like...well it wasn't a secret but uh...far as I can know, people just didn't want to relive that again. That's the only solution that I can come to that they just didn't want to, the hurt that was in it, they got...look like a relief by tellin' someone, but yet still they' just very few that they would discuss it and why, I don't know.

J: Um-hum.

JC: I...I couldn't say. But that's the way they...that's the way they handled it you know, and most of the time when they were talkin', we were back in there. WHen, pardon me, when the grown people were talkin', the children didn't say nothin'. We...we uh...we didn't sit under the grown people when they come. We had to go...go in the other room or go out to play or whatever.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And as you walkin' through, you know how kids are, they nosy, I got to have a drink of water, you know. You come in and get a drink of water and hear some of the conversation. That's the... mostly the way it was cause now and days, the children, they take over the conversation. It's come a long way from what I was raised in cause now, I...I didn't believe in a way, the way I was brought up. I think that uh...a person should be in a way that he shouldn't speak things in the home that, unless it's private between husband and wife uh...I think children should have a place as well as the parents but when you segregate the home, you can't go here, you can't go there, you can't do this, you can't do that, or I never was for it. I guess because I was never allowed the privilege uh...the children now, uh... my kids was brought up different. Uh...we got to come in hear the radio. Now, my kids, they got a stereo in they room. They got their own telephone and they'll blast you out of this world. You have to go in there. (laughing) Tell them to cut it down or cut it off, you know. Well, we didn't have that opportunity uh...my mother and father, they ??????? and they whuped me and the shoopin's I got, if I would give my children the..the same treatment, I'd be takin' to jail for child abuses. But it taught me a lesson. I've never been in any trouble what-so-ever. And uh..

J: You were....you would say though, that your parents were pretty strict about...

JC: They were. And we had to go to church.

J: Un-hun.

JC: Un...when I was ten years old, I had to read the Bible too. Uh...I started and my mother used to go...I was nine years old and I was twelve years old when I completed. Took me three years to read the Bible and I had to let him know what I'd read.

J: I was gonna say. Did he quiz you on it?

JC: Oh, he quizzed. He quizzed it. And he'd know, we had to tell me how many time the word say Yea Lord and valley. Yeah, I couldn't...I couldn't my kids like that. No. I was made to do it

J: Un-hun.

JC: And I was made to go to church.

J: Your sister also?

JC: And my sister also. She wasn't made to read the Bible , but I was uh...my dad always wanted me to be preacher. I'm...I'm pretty sure that's the reason he done that.

J: Um-hum.

JC: But it was...it was hard. The other kids be out playin'. I had to study the Bible. Uh...Cause, now, I...I look at it I learn a lot and I...I've learned a lot from the Bible uh...I've learned a lot that people said that was in the Bible was not in there. Most of the people...not most of the people, I beg your pardon, a lot of the people take the Bible to pattern their life or if the Bible say, Paul said take a little wine for stomachs sake, he didn't tell me, he told Paul, Then I take it. I go drinkin' and say well the Bible said take a little for stomach so you didn't tell me, told...Paul so uh...it's a lot of loop holes where they try to find, you know, that uh...I learn a lot of things that uh...people said was in the Bible that's just a common phrase or just a word. Some of them that sounds good, but uh...just not there.

J: Yeah. People will twist the Bible around to their own uh...

JC: To fit they lives. Nobody want to be wrong and you got an excuse if you can shoe me one way I'm wrong, I can show you ten ways I'm right. If I want to do that.

J: Um-hum. When you were livin in down town Matewan as a kid, did...did..what did your mother do for uh...did your mother do all the grocery shoppin' and food shoppin' or did you raise your own food?

JC: Well, we raised uh...our food and then, yeah , mother, she done grocery shoppin'.

J: Where were the stores in Matewan then at that time?

JC: Well, uh...oh, let me see, they had a Kroger's store uh..they had a store they called Mickey Mack, was a grocery store, I remember food was very cheap. Bread was a nickel a loaf and you could get this, they had a bread called butter nut. I was a double cost a dime uh...you could buy ten cents worth of beans or whatever you know, everything was...

J: Un-hun.

JC: Down to a minimum. Yeah, she done the shoppin' cause we eat hard food you know, on uh...holiday's you know, we'd have cakes and pies, and uh...and on Sunday, they had a Sunday dinner uh...chicken and dumplin's so forth, so on so I don't eat chicken and uh...so they...they...they managed real well. We never went hungry.

J: Un-hun.

JC: Un-hun.

J: What were the day's uh...or what were the things that kids particularly looked forward to. Did they look forward to Christmas like they do now or...

JC: OH yeah. Oh yeah. They looked forward to Santa Claus. On Easter, we looked forward to dressin' up, goin' to church, sayin' our Easter speeches, huntin' eggs, and Christmas time, we say our speeches and wonder what Santa Claus is gonna bring us uh...most of the time, he didn't bring that much but we uh...you know, we looked forward to it and uh...we never got to much. Well, we didn't have a Christmas tree when I was growin' up. First Christmas tree we had, after I got married and we had our first little daughter and we had a Christmas tree was right here in this house.

J: Is that right?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Did you...did you cut a tree yourself or did you buy one somewhere?

JC: No. We bought it.

J: Un-hun.

JC: And uh..we didn't have but one set of o'lights to go on it so we cut out paper rings and hung on the trees you know, and uh...course now, later years at uh...we'd decorate inside and outside. That tree out there, has still got lights on it. I...all i got to do is turn em on. It's already decorated.

J: So you light it up just at Christmas now, huh?

JC: Um-hum. And then I have one in the house too.

J: How bout Halloween? Did kids...play around Halloween?

JC: Oh, yeah. We use to go ut and take...well, we'd take our kids out from house to house and we'd uh...buy them a you know, a falsr face we called it and we'd go with them and uh...see that uh...they got a lot of candy and stuff you know apples, oranges and different things.

J: Okay. Just go couple more questions then I'll let you off the hook here. Uh...Now you were working for Red Jacket when the transition was made to Island Creek?

JC: Un-hun.

J: THat's correct?

JC: Yeah. I was recording secretary. I was secretary of this local for nine years. Sixty-nine, fifty-four.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And when they made the transaction, you know, uh...they took over in 1956 up on Red Jacket, Island Creek.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Uh...the workin' conditions changed uh...it was harder workin' for Island Creek than it was for Red Jacket.

J: How so? What uh...more strict about the...

JC: More strict. Um-hum. THey was more stricter.

J: Can you think of any specifics that changed, what, like for instance would they give you less time for a lunch break or that type of thing or...

JC: Oh, yeah and then uh...you had to come up uh...where Red Jacket well, I mean you was doin' good, if in a days work, twenty ton per man.

J: Um-hum.

JC: But after Island Creek takin' over, it was double or more.

J: Hum.

JC: Ton per man.

J: So what kind of affect did that have on the moral of the people...

JC: Well, the machinery, well they...they..they got..later on they got into machinery that uh...would uh....was far sight...the machinery was better than manual hand labor. You know. We loaded coal, but then they got the machine that could load like George and continuous miners and so forth and so on so therefore, the work forces, the sections of men was cut down, uh...each section had so many men. Used to be where you'd have more men and less you know, well, you'd get less coal because uh..if a man, clean up a cut, you call a cut was six or seven cars, it'd take him all day.

J: Um-hum.

JC: See and uh...continuous miner, would clean up so many cuts a day. just accordin' to how you operate or how the conditions of the roof was you know. I...before he could advance and so forth so...therefore they expected more. Our uh..first roof bolt was put up in seventeen and nine. I put it up.

J: Is that right?

JC: The first. I had a butterfly drill and a rack and you had to use a wheel, and then a later on, they got a...a Chicago fanatic run, just put one at a time then they got a fletcher which had arms on both sides and two men could run it. So uh...it uh...it was required so many pens to a place. It was required to pen so many places a day.

J: Now these...the...the...the roof bolts, I guess became more necessary then when the machinery was workin' in the mines?

JC: Um-hum.

J: Now, you mentioned a fletcher, was this the fletcher machinery that was made down in Huntington? Was that...

JC: I don't know where it made. I...I believe it was but uh...I know the uh...the person, one we got with the double arm was a fletcher. With the slidin' bar. Then they got the Acme. I don't know who made the Acme.

J: I believe that's uh...made in Huntington also. Um...you were, you said recordin' secretary for your local for nine years and what nine years was that? Do you recall?

JC: Well, i was until I come out the mines.

J: Okay.

JC: See, I was reco uh...I was just secretary for awhile, then I was recording. Cause you had to run for office.

J: Um-hum.

JC: And from sixty-seven back...

J: So that would be like fifty-eight then to sixty-seven?

JC: Um-hum.

J: And what local...what number is the local?

JC: 6954.

J: 6954.

JC: Uh ??? um...they had different locals, now they all combines to one local, see, they had local 1010, they had a 32 had a local, uh...Mitchell Branch had a local and uh...so they used uh...I think 32 local. I'm not sure of a number to combine all the locals together which was 6954. That was the local union number.

J: Okay. So you were recordin' secretary, then, at the time that the black lung struggle, I guess, was goin' on?

JC: Yes. Sir.

J: What was that like? Uh..did the company fight you on that?

JC: The company fought. Yes sir. THey did uh...you had to uh...have a certain amount now uh...in nineteen and uh..sixty, let's see, I think the black lung law was passed in nineteen and sixty-nine in December. I believe and uh...then you had...we had to go to Beckley for...and stay two or three days to go on an examination and then you breath and they put you through a process and you had to breath through apparatus. You had to walk like a belt line. You had to go up and down steps and then they checked your breathing and so...you now, see what was what. you know and uh...cause I gone to a lot of doctors and uh...they still, they turned me down and so I had to get a lawyer to get in...what hurt me so bad, uh...all of the things that....the benefits that I received if somethin' would happen to me, they wouldn't present it like that, I had to uh...go before law jury. I had to hire a lawyer so, the way I see it, they wasn't askin' me was I sick, I had to prove it.

J: Um-hum.

JC: I had to pay this man to tell this man that I'm sick. I had to pay the lawyer to tell the jury that I'm sick, see.

J: Um-hum.

JC: So I thought it was unfair because I had put my time in and I had worked and uh...as the body gives, down, I had no jurisdiction although I couldn't tell you, I can't describe the pain. I can't tell you how bad I hurt. All I can do is tell you, if you've never had a pain, you don't know what I'm talkin' about but if you've had a pain, you can uh...yo know, kind of get an idea of what it's like. What this pain's like so I thought I would deal unfairly with them, and I had to pay dearly. Twenty-five percent to get a lawyer to represent me.

J: Hum.

JC: So finally after four years and a little bit, I succeeded.

J: So it was about 1971 before you started gettin' compensation?

JC: Right. Right. Before I got anything. That's right.

J: Did you get a lump settlement and then compensation after that?

JC: Well, now um...when my first compensation, I had gotten my leg broke in 1956, alright, I was off three months and I went back to work and they give...they settled or...with three hundred and some dollars. Okay. They paid me uh...I was gettin' eighty-two dollars a month, alright then when I went up for silicosis and black lung, after uh...compensation paid me for the, my injury and so forth and so on so uh...my condition was so bad, they give me a lifetime award. Compensation give me a lifetime award. Uh...black lung, I didn't have to sue for it, but uh..I got it without suing but my social security, that's when I had my biggest problem.

J: Um-hum.

JC: That's when I had to go through a whole lot. I had to go before a law jury uh...then they have people there to I forget now, what they're called, but they're there, you know, as they say whether your able to do or not and uh...it's rough.

J: So it took you four years to get that?

JC: Um-hum. Then they paid me in a lump sum then they paid me so much a month and i had uh...you know, black lung played uh...my miner's pension had paid, social security paid. (tape cuts off)

JC: Now we got hospitalization. Which we couldn't afford. If it wasn't for the United Mine Workers, and the welfare farm, we couldn't make it uh...if they break the union. All that will be gone. Our pension will be cut off uh...at my age, seventy years old, I couldn't take care of myself far as a lifting...goin' our and workin' so uh...it just wouldn't be nothin' much to...to go on uh...a lot of things would change because I would have to...if I would get sick, unless I have insurance, that would cover that, I would have to go in and get an insurance that would be able to take care of that and out of that that I'm gettin' now, I would have to pay see, so it would be um...pretty rough.

J: Have any of your uh...those you had I think, I think you already implied that your children have stayed in this area or have they? Have they moved on livin somewhere?

JC: Well, yeah, now I got children, I got a son in uh...the air force. He's in San Bernadino California in Norton Air Force base uh..I got uh...two daughters in New York. I got uh...a son in New York. I got two sons in uh...Columbus. I got a daughter here and my grandchildren.

J: Um-hum. Is your daughter here. Is her family able to find work?

JC: SHe's uh...her daughter...her daughter's workin' in North Carolina now, uh...and she stays down in the Magnolia Garden, you know the little buildin' you know, down there they fixed.

J: Um-hum.

JC: Fixed for low income. She sick and then she had come home and she's on her social security now. Disable social security so she lives down there. (tape cuts off)

J: That concludes this interview.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection