Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Herschel Morgan Interview

John Hennen: Alright Mr. Morgan, if, to get started here, tell me, when and where you were born and something about your parents and family background.

Herschel Morgan: I was born in Panther, West Virginia, or near Panther, West Virginia. Which is in McDowell County. My parents both father and mother uh...were teachers uh...also some uncles and aunts that was prevalent in the family to uh...go into the teaching profession and uh...I had five brothers, one was a dentist, one was a lawyer, judge, criminal judge, when he died in Welch, West Virginia and the others were all teachers.

J: And...and both of your parents were teachers?

HM: Both of my parents.

J: And what were their names?

HM: Berl Morgan and Mary Morgan. Dr. John Adair was an uncle, principal of Iaeger High School for about thirty some years.

J: Did your parents teach at the high school level?

HM: No. Elementary level.

J: Okay. What sort of training...teaching training had they had. Do you know?

HM: Yes. Then when...when they started teaching, you got whatever work at the advance level, their was a normal school down at Ripley where you could...you could...some of my relatives went down there and it was a short, six or twelve weeks to college level then you took a...a teachers examination and if you...if your grades were high enough, you were given...granted a certificate and then of course you went on to school as you wanted to. Summer term or extension work. Any college courses that you could pick up.

J: Okay. Um...now, Panther was a coal camp.

HM: Big coal camp, yes.

J: And which, was that the the Red Jacket company or another company?

HM: No. It was the Laythorpe Coal Company and uh...uh...the uh...Bill and Andrew Leccie were superintendents of that company. It was uh....worked uh...four or five hundred men. I don't know how many. Big company still over the post office in it uh...ice plant under the store. That was back in the days when ice was...everybody didn't have refrigerator then they had offices for Justice of Peace and law enforcement and I don't know what other offices...

J: In there? In the company store?

HM: Upstairs.

J: What...what did people do when they went to the ice house? Did they buy a block of ice everyday or so?

HM: Buy...yeah, buy what ever you wanted to in ice form...had a big ice plant. Had a theater there and a drug store, they called it the ?????? and uh...uh...population of uh...well, work...to work five hundred men, you can imagine the size of your population.

J: Did you and your family live in a private home or did you live in...

HM: We lived out in the country there. Horse Creek.

J: Okay.

HM: I still have that old home place up there.

J: Oh, is that right?

HM: Um-hum.

J: Livin in the same...same house?

HM: It's...it's there. I'm not livin in it.

J: That's right. You live right across the street.

HM: Yes. Nobody's livin in it right now. Hasn't been since...

J: Did you all shop at the uh..company store in Panther?

HM: Uh...some. Panther or the company...the uh...Piggly Wiggly's and so on and Iaeger. We were about half way between but the company store at most of these uh...big coal companies was a good place to shop. I hear today a lot of criticism of it. They made them shop there and so on. It was uh...was a very...they were very good stores to shop in and uh...of course you had your bread comin' in daily with an Northfork & Western passenger train uh...they delivered it in huge box of bread and then all those stores along the railroad uh...right away and uh...they uh...it is baked in a central location and shipped in and uh...was kept fresh of course.

J: Un-hun. Uh...now your parents I assume were employed my the county Board of Education?

HM: No. Uh...at first they were later. At first they had...West Virginia had a system of uh...school uh...units composed of districts. Now each county had...McDowell had six districts uh...it had Sandy River district, that was down Iaeger. Big Creek up at War uh..Welch, that was Brown's Creek district. Gary Adkins district and Northfolk district and there was of course a good size high school in each of the districts plus all of the elementary schools and you had a uh...district superintendent in charge of that and it wasn't until 1933, that West Virginia was one of the first of the states to go to county unit system with a county superintendent in charge of the whole county. Now, West Virginia also had those uh....city districts. Williamson city district down here had just the city of Williamson and uh...you find some states that still have that. They have uh...the city district located within a county, but West Virginia, when they went to the county unit system, that meant fifty-five county governments and with a superintendent and a Board of Education in charge of all the schools in that county.

J: Un-hun.

HM: And it's that way today. And it was a very progressive step. Much better than...than broken down into the district system. To small a unit really.

J: Uh...when did you start school?

HM: I started uh...uh...really I can't give you there year. I graduated from high school in 1933. That was the year that the county unit system came in this state and of course, twelve years back of that, was when I started.

J: Okay. And what high school did you attend?

HM: Iaeger High School.

J: Iaeger High School. Okay. Do you recall the size of your graduating class?

HM: Yes. I was president of the graduating class and had forty-six students who graduated in that class. Now I...I would add that uh...uh...then when you seventeen year old boy could get a job at those coal...coalmines all the way up and down uh...Tug River from..from Kermit to Bluefield. Just one right after another and any seventeen year old that wanted a job he could just walk out and get one. No problem.

J: Un-hun.

HM: And as a result, a lot of them uh...didn't finish high school. That was the bad thing about it. They'd go get a job uh...I had...I had a brother teachin' uh...up at Gary and he laughed about the uh...one of his students sayin' how much do you make? and uh...he'd taught then and I'd say twenty years and he told him what he made and he said " I...I work the night shift. I come to school in the day but I make more money than you are."

J: Um. Now Gary was the uh...sort of the model company town. Is that...

HM: Gary had ten thousand people in it and Welch, the county seat had about nine thousand so uh...yes it was...it was big. Several mines up there. Gary, I played basketball there uh...and uh..they had uh...nine hundred and some in their high school at the time I was familiar with Gary.

J: Un-hun.

HM: It's a big high school.

J: Now was it a public high school or...

HM: Yes.

J: Or private high school.

HM: Public high school.

J: So you played basketball for Iaeger High School? Is that correct?

HM: Yes.

J: Tell me somethin' about that. Who were some of your teammates?

HM: Uh...well, Ves played for Marshall and Sebastian and uh...Ed Ward who'd now in Iaeger, Charlie Stevenson, I don't know where he is and uh...those were some that I remember fondly.

J: Did you all have a pretty good team?

HM: Had a good team. We won uh...twenty and lost four one year. I think it was the senior year. Played teams like, the only team beat us twice was Gary. We split with Williamson. We played Hinton at Hinton. Played we played a good skits.

J: Did you travel on trains or in cars or buses...

HM: We played Matewan and the next night, Chattaroy or Williamson. I believe it was Chattaroy. They had a high school down there then and we came down to uh...Matewan in cars, spent the... played...spent the night here and went on to Chattaroy. Played and then drove back home.

J: Un-hun. Did your playin' interfere with you school work at all?

HM: No...no. No. You couldn't miss class for anything. (laughing) in the thirties, you didn't...you didn't miss school.

J: What did you do after high school?

HM: I uh...went to college and started workin' on a teacher's certificate.

J: Was this in Morgantown?

HM: No. I went to Concord and uh...got a teacher's certificate and then applied for a job and was uh...placed at Trace Fork. That's up in the Panther park. A one room school. You had six grades. One through six and uh...I taught there the first year.

J: Is that school still there?

HM: No it isn't. They consolidated those and of course now where...where uh...a lot of people lived is now the Panther State Park.

J: What uh...subjects did you...you must...well you taught all grades...

HM: Taught all subjects.

J: Did that include writing?

HM: Reading, writing, arithmetic, history, geography, which they should teach again. They've cut it out now and uh...art, and uh...uh...a little music that consisted mostly of a song since the average teacher wasn't very well versed in music but uh...uh...you taught all subjects

J: What was the length of the school year? About the same as it is now?

HM: It was uh...uh...hundred and eighty days.

J: Okay.

HM: That's nine months. Now you have ten.

J: Did you teach that Palmer writing method?

HM: Uh...it was called uh...yeah, that's what it was. Uh...you of course have when you at the elementary level, you have a writing pad that's got all the information you need in it and uh...uh... each one...each student has one of those and it's really a copy to go by. You...he looks at it there and he...he uh...uh...copies that and the first uh...the first time he tries, it may be a pretty warful lookin' uh...piece of work but uh..as he progresses and learns to make the letters and so on in the elementary school, uh..it's... writing is uh..to my knowledge taught no differently today than it was back forty years ago.

J: Hum. Now, you said you just stayed at this one room school for a year, at Trace Fork.

HM: Yes.

J: Is that correct? And what was your next step then?

HM: Well, uh...they placed a brother, I had two brothers were twins, one was taken dentistry and one was taken law and uh...frankly they wanted...this was in the thirties, one would work a year and that one would go to school. Next year, he dropped out and he'd work and send that one.

J: Um-hum.

HM: And that's the way they got through dental and law school.

J: Um-hum.

HM: Now. He was uh...in law school at the University of Kentucky and uh...his uh...I might say that he stayed at the same rooming house that Carl Perkins. Congressman over there.

J: Oh, is that right?

HM: And uh...Bert Combs yeah. All three of them were in the same...in the same rooming house and of course, Bert was Governor of Kentucky and Carl Perkins has been, he's dead now but he was a fine congressman for a lot of years. Lifetime over there.

J: Un-hun. They were all in law school together?

HM: They were all in law school together. Stayed in the same rooming house. Now that was before the University of Kentucky was well endowed with dormitories as they are now. Back in the thirties we'd take him down there in the fall and uh...in a car, with everything these...was to take and he'd come home Christmas uh...usually three or four of them go together and then he...we'd go back in the last of May. We'd go back and get him. And uh...there wasn't any of this uh...in the thirties this thing of take off on Sunday evening and go to college and come back in Friday evening and you can't go without you got an automobile. That was uh...that was not uh...the practice then.

J: Did...did you have access to a car at Concord when you were there at all?

HM: Uh...not at first. I bought one later. After I'd taught a few years. And uh...I bought one. That's one of the first purchases you make but you, my point is, you earn the money. You didn't uh...you didn't look for a grant from someplace or a loan from someplace in the thirties. Whatever you gonna purchase, you saved that much money and bought it.

J: What were the tuition costs at Concord uh...do you remember those?

HM: Uh...I don't remember them exactly but it was not much. Uh..most of the students that I knew, you got a check for uh..every month from home. You got about forty dollars and uh...you paid your room and board out of that and your laundry and then you had a few dollars left over. Uh...that uh...I'll also point out that first year I taught, I made eighty-five dollars a month so it was a different dollar from what we have now.

J: Um-hum. Had you been pretty strongly encouraged by your parents to pursue your education or was it something that you just wanted naturally?

HM: Uh...I was...I was uh...pretty strongly uh...what are you gonna do and then after you discussed it and talked about it a little bit, you had three or four options, you could go get a job uh...or you could...I preferred to I..I liked teaching. I think it's one of the most satisfactory uh...most satisfying jobs you can get and I've enjoyed every year of my forty-three.

J: Now, you mentioned that...that...that high school boys particularly could get jobs in the mines and your class had forty-six students, do you have rough idea of how many of them did go on to college?

HM: I do not. I can't help you out there. I don't uh...I don't know how many of them went on uh...as I said. I had one uh...Ves went to Marshall and played basketball for Cam Henderson. Played in Madison Square Garden.

J: Um-hum.

HM: He was one that went. Had a lot of them that went but I don't know what the percentage would be.

J: Okay. So you continued teaching then and like I say, you were at Trace Fork one year...

HM: Yeah. I started...I started to tell you one that uh..the next year, my brother, they placed him and they started to put him at Trap Fork which was a school close by Trace. Another one room school and he said would you like to go over there and let me go to Trace Fork. He'd taught that before and I said, it doesn't make any difference to me so I taught at Trap Fork that year. He..uh...he taught at Trace Fork. Both one room schools then the next year, they moved me to a two room school. I taught the upper grades uh...four, five and six and uh...another teacher uh...taught first and second and we had a hundred and twenty students between us uh...total hundred and twenty two of us and we had a real good school, I might say.

J: Now is moving...was moving from one room to a two room school considered a promotion?

HM: No. No. Not necessarily. It's just a job.

J: Un-hun.

HM: Mostly, it is a little easier to get to still only uh..staying there.

J: Un-hun.

HM: And uh...it uh...but we had a hundred and twenty between us. That's sixty in a room.

J: Wow.

HM: Here a lot of these people screamin' about being over loaded, (laughing) we didn't know that we were...were...you know, we were over loaded. We went in there and worked and I think had a real good school uh...I'd like uh...I'd like to say that uh...those schools uh...where you had uh...three grades in one room, uh...you find a lot of people today say "Oh, you can't do that." You can do that. And after all, Doc Wheat said one time up West Virginia University. He said "How many of you in here worked on one room school?" Well, I looked around and somebody held up their hand and they's seventeen of us workin' on a Master's and uh... I got my hand up and didn't know what I was in for and he said "two of you? The rest of you's missed somethin'." He said "You know, a one room school" he said "when your in the fourth grade" he said "by the time you get in the fifth, you know half that work cause you watched the...the other group here before." And he pointed out a lot of advantages and I have to agree with him.

J: Hum.

HM: Now uh...you didn't...you didn't turn people out of the six grade that couldn't read. No. They's nobody that...that couldn't read well, uh...I hear there's some people today that can't read. I see...read that in the papers about somebody gettin' into...uh...from high school into college and their not very pro... proficient in reading.

J: Un-hun.

HM: Uh...and uh...those...those early schools, they concentrated on readin', writing, arithmetic, the basics. They taught all day. There's no reason that they couldn't master that uh...in a year's time.

J: How did the kids get along with the age difference in one room school? Did they...did they get along pretty well?

HM: Go along fine. No problem in that.

J: Hum. So did you continue teaching then until World War II? Is that correct?

HM: Yes. I continued...I was in teachin'...in a two room school. I taught on Friday and uh...went in the army Monday mornin'. I went to Beckley Monday mornin' and went off for the group to World War II.

J: What year? Was this 1942?

HM: That was in 1942 I guess it was or forty-two I expect.

J: Now you mean that you...you actually taught that Friday and then you went through the whole process...

HM: no...no.

J: and got in or you...

HM: I...I reported to Beckley and they sent you to Fort Thomas, Kentucky on buses and processed you there.

J: Un-hun.

HM: But uh...but uh...

J: Were you married at this time or single?

HM: No. And then we went of course to...to Camp Claven, Louisiana in the eighty second division and uh...in about uh...two months, they announced they would cut the eighty second division into and half of us would form the hundred and first and the other would form the eighty second and they'd both be air born divisions with paratroopers and gliders and you uh...would be in that kind of a unit which they did. Moved us all to Fort Brag for training. And I was in the hundred and first air born division for about four years...'til the war was over. With it when it's formed, I was with it when it was uh...uh...disabandoned ? at the end of the war and uh...and the way they took us out of that division, you see, we got a extra, when I went in there, you's gettin' twenty-one dollars a month and President Roosevelt said "That's nobody can buy their necessities with that" and he had congress raise it to fifty dollars a month after about uh...three months I think I was in there. Okay. They uh...then when we...they changed it to air born they had uh...three regimens of paratroopers, one regimen of gliders and you got flight pay. An extra fifty dollars a month so uh...that uh...helped a lot in fact the first uh...month's I was in there, I saw an awful lot of broke soldiers. Twenty-one dollars didn't go very far even then.

J: Un-hun.

HM: And uh...so uh...I was in there about four years. Went over seas to Britain. To England. Stationed at uh...at uh...Reding, England. Thirty miles out of London waitin' on the invasion and uh...and then of course we were uh...in uh...France and uh...Belgium, Holland, Germany, and uh...during the...during the war, I was also in on the air born invasion of Holland. I rode a glider from right outside London there about thirty miles out of London. Down and across the channel and up the French coast and the uh...Belgium coast to Holland. That was quite an experience.

J: Now. Were gliders used for reconnaissance purposes?

HM: The....the glider was used as a..a uh...and easy way to get both men and supplies into to combat area. After all, it uh...it was uh..uh...cheap...made cheaply. It was..the American one was a..was a uh...a frame...a steel frame bolted together and then over that was stretched some kind of material uh....bout like a good grade canvas. Had a steering wheel and few instruments up there for the pilot and uh...uh...the one I rode in to Holland, we had uh..a jeep and seven of us in there and uh..the next one behind us would have had a trailer to hook on to that jeep and I don't know uh...how may men was in...in it. Then when...when of course you came down, they took that jeep and uh..trailer from the one behind it. Hooked them together and loaded what they wanted on there and everybody took off wherever you was goin'.

J: How'd they launch a glider? From underneath uh...bomber or something?

HM: No. It was uh...it was uh...launched with uh..by an airplane that uh..they had about a uh...hundred foot let's say. Now that's a guess. I don't know how long it was. Nylon cord that fastened the glider to the plane and they had a wheels or they had sled runners they could use either one but to take off you use the wheels and they just started it out took it off into the air and uh...and uh...went on over bein' pulled by a plane.

J: Is the landing gear on a glider similar to...to the other airplane?

HM: Yeah. Similar.

J: I see.

HM: Uh...except they have some runners on there they can bring down if they don't want it to roll. They can bring that down and it won't go uh...twenty feet. It just sticks when it comes down and if you had...I had a rifle in my hand one time when it came down on sled runners and the rifle went clear to the front and then everything else loose was up there. I had to go dig it out before I could get out.

J: Now, were you...did you fly gliders for the duration of the war?

HM: No, I was a...I was a...just a combat troop, soldier, when you got on the ground, of course you...you were just like uh...any infantry soldier. That was a method used. Cheap method that get troops and equipment to the front. Glider. Uh...I said, they're cheaply made and uh...they had it pretty well organized. I remember as we cross the channel, the English Channel, somebody said the uh...the glider, well we..we the glider in front of us went down and we stood up and looked out the window and watched him hit the channel down there. I knew every man in it and the next uh...the next day, those people came in on another glider. What had happened they had uh...two rows of people down thair in boats and uh..they just picked them up and sent them back to camp and they got on another glider and came in the next day.

J: Hum. Now, when were you, were you mustered out of the service in 1946?

HM: 1946.

J: And then did you return to uh..to West Virginia right away?

HM: I returned to West Virginia and uh...uh...went up to uh..West Virginia University and got a master's degree and then I came to Red Jacket.

J: Was this a master's degree in education?

HM: A master's degree in education.

J: Okay. And you, what, began teaching, uh...principal of elementary school at Red Jacket?

HM: Principal of elementary school at Red Jacket.

J: Okay. Was this a job that you applied for or that were appointed to?

HM: Uh...they, when I went back...went up Welch county seat and said I'm back, where you gonna place me,. They said uh..."We'll...we have a vacancy uh...at uh...Edwin", which is right in the edge of Keystone and they said "we'll put you there." And I said "Well, I can't stay home. I haven't been with my family now for four years uh...I'll uh...don't you have somethin' closer down to where I an stay home." No, they didn't have. I said "well, I'll go get me a master's so I went up and got a master's degree and came back again and uh...with no better luck, they started to place me up take the principal of the school out at Davey, right below Welch. And I said "I can't stay home there." and I had uh...twin brothers over at Pete's garage gettin' some work done on their car and he asked "what's Herschel done?" They said 'I guess he's lookin' for a job." Said "they's tryin' to send him up around Keystone and he said he's not goin' up there." And Pete said, "Well I'm on the board down here and I know he's qualified" says "tell him were lookin' for a principal for Red Jacket and if he wants it to call me and we'll place him tomorrow night." So they came back over and told me and I said, "Well, that's good" and I called him and I told him go ahead and place me. That's how come me down here.

J: How long did you stay there then? At Red Jacket?

HM: Just one year and...

J: Oh.

HM: And about a month.

J: Tell me that, you mentioned off tape about the Red Jacket Coal Company wanted to offer you a summer employment.

HM: Yes, they said that at the end of the year, just before the end of the year, they sent for me to come down to the office and...and uh...I went down and they said "we have a job for you this summer" and I said "Well, I don't know anything about minin' coal." And they said "Well you don't have to." This is check weighman job. All you have to do is a truck will drive up on the scales and you take the weight of it and record it and sit down and wait for the next truck." And I said "Well I...I think I'll go to school this summer." So I didn't take it but I'm sure that uh...I think what they had in mind was to make sure you didn't wander off and take a job somewhere next year.

J: Un-hun.

HM: And uh...so I came back the next year.

J: Where were you teaching when West Virginia schools were inograted?

HM: Uh...that was about fifty-two.

J: Little bit later I think, I think. Maybe fifty-five.

HM: Well, uh...I was at uh...uh...I was at Williamson High and Matewan High during that period and uh...uh...really, you had some inogration uh...in some of these schools that uh...before that, they all played together and they..they knew one another and they just went to school in some of these places near a school.

J: Um-hum.

HM: You had...had lot of that that went on.

J: Now, I know in Williamson, there was a black high school.

HM: Yeah.

J: Is that correct?

HM: Liberty.

J: Liberty High School. Now, when inogration became the law, did white students begin going to Liberty or did Liberty close down?

HM: We closed I's a...I's a superintendent I guess, then and we closed at Liberty High School and uh...uh...sent their students over to the better building which was Williamson High School and the teachers uh....we uh...gave them jobs out...all over the county. Wherever a vacancy existed.

J: Un-hun. So Liberty, then, wasn't used as a school after that or?

HM: We...we used it as a title I...for title I programs. Had uh...maybe uh....I don't know how many people worked in that program. We...we made use of the building but we didn't have any...any need student wise to have any more students in there.

J: Un-hun.

HM: We had...we built a big new high school there too uh...right after that and uh...you could see it down there now with the names of the Board of Education that was there when it was built. I supervised it and uh...so there well off space wise, really, all over this county.

J: Who or...let's see, you had become superintendent by that time you said. How...how did that come about?

HM: Well, I was...I was in uh...I was in Florida and uh...I was principal of Matewan High School. I was in Florida and somebody called me and said they had demoted you to...to uh...teacher. And I said "Well, this is a good place. The fishin's good, uh..I'm stayin' with my mother down here. The climate's good. Tell them to give it to someone else and I'll go over in the mornin' and get a job." So I went over the next day and uh...and got a job teachin' Sarasotta County. That's...and taught down there for three years and then I got a call as I mentioned when uh...when uh...O T Kent, Fred Shuey, Okey Glen, uh...came in as board members. They called me and asked me to come back and also Pearlie Epling was on that board and uh...uh...uh...Lafe Ward and Mrs. J. Brooks Lawson. I had uh...when I was superintendent for sixteen years, I had five of those six people the whole time and uh...as I told the state assistants...state superintendent came down here and visited our schools, and commented on the progress we were makin'. I told him "It's made because of the board we have." I named those people and I said "You don't have a board in the state with that quality of personnel on it." I said "There's not a one of them that wants anything except to improve these schools." And that was correct.

J: Un-hun.

HM: Uh....they were all prominent personnel interested in schools.

J: Now, the board, I assume, was uh...these were elective offices.

HM: Elective offices. Right.

J: Okay. Was the board primarily made up of democrats?

HM: Uh...

J: Or were they non-partisan elections?

HM: Is none. In West Virginia, you run non-partisan and uh...uh...on uh...of those, Fred Shuey is republican. I don't know what Okey Glen was. Mrs. Lawson, of course, is a republican. Lafe Ward was a democrat. Pearlie Epling was a democrat. Uh...uh...O. T. uh...let's see O. T. Kent was a democrat so really, they didn't...didn't pay any attention to that. They wasn't interested in...in politics and that 's what made them such good board members. First, they were..they'd made it in the business world already. They didn't need anything. They worked uh...at these schools. Would you believe that they visited every classroom in the county one year.

J: Hum.

HM: All of them. Visited every classroom in the county.

J: Did they travel together to these classrooms?

HM: Yeah. Got in...two or three automobiles and they'd go out and Matewan High School, they'd visit there. Matewan Grade, Red Jacket and they had a chart and they checked em off and they made sure they visited every school in the county. The board. Now, of course, superintendent and assistants, we were out there a lot but we were paid to do that. They got one uh...they got about uh...forty dollars a meeting when they were in session so money had nothing to do with them. They were interested in schools.

J: Now I would assume that uh...competition for teachin' jobs was...was pretty rigorous in the county. How would you determine what teachers were selected and...and which had to try again the next year maybe.

HM: I don't think that uh...that was a problem while...while uh...I was in there. Uh...it seems...first thing that this board, when I went in, they talked it over and they said how many A B's do you have? How many master's? And we got that information for them after due deliberation and discussing, they said let's see if we can't get these people to improve their cer-tification and go on to school. Everybody work on a master's degree soon as they get their A.B. So they put a drive on for that and uh...uh...course teachers responded and they got a little more money when they got a master's and it certainly helped the education program. But I don't remember uh...I don't remember very few people that ever applied for a job that wasn't one fired uh...uh...I do remember one that applied and I took him to the school. Was a rule school and uh...he uh...he looked it over and said yes, he would teach there and uh...we were in my car and on the way back, he said "I need a little money until uh...I get my first month's check. Would you make a loan?" I said "Yes, I'll make you a loan." I made him a loan and not only didn't he pay it back, he didn't show up for work the next day. That's the last I ever saw of him.

J: He just took your money and ran huh? (laughing) HM: That happened. That actually happened. (laughing) That's the only time I ever had one that make that request and I don't remember how much I lent him (laughing).

J: One of the teachers in the Mingo County school system late wrote a book about Mingo County politics. Huey Perry.

HM: Huey Perry. Yes. I had Huey Perry uh...I think my...I think when I was principal at Gilbert High School, I think he graduated that year. Certainly he was in school here and I think that he graduated when I was over there.

J: Un-hun.

HM: I was over here one year and I've known him for a long time and uh...he uh...was a teacher in the county and I might say a good teacher. Huey was a good teacher and uh...he uh...he wrote a book uh...I read parts of it and uh...uh...evidently you've read too.

J: Some of it.

HM: Yeah. Well, don't forget...don't forget to look at the description of these superintendent of schools when you read that.

J: What'd he say?

HM: Well, I don't know what he said,. Uh..I don't remember. The exact working and I'd hate to misinterpret.

J: There was somthin' about runnin' the school system like a military outfit.

HM: That's right. (laughing) Yeah.

J: Was that a a fair assessment?

HM: I...

J: Were you a strict superintendent?

HM: Well, I think we wanted it done right and uh...if it...if you construe that as..as a strict, we would be strict but if you'll talk to these teachers, we all worked together. We had a fine bunch of teachers. I see them today out here uh..you know, you had...you had at that time, we had uh...maybe twelve thousand students and we had five hundred teachers. Something like that and uh...so I still see them around and I have nothin' but the highest regard for them.

J: Now, before we started the uh...taping, you mentioned uh...Troy Floyd. Now what was his role in the uh...board of...in the school system?

HM: Troy Floyd is from an old Mingo County family uh...they were uh..school people. Troy was teacher uh...then he was uh...had various other jobs and uh...finally he was county superintendent. Now, he was superintendent for fourteen years and I followed him. I was superintendent sixteen years. That's thirty years between us. And uh...uh...Troy, I worked with him for a lot of years. He was an excellent school man and uh...uh...had a good head uh...for the duties that he was responsible for. Good man. Troy.

J: Was he instrumental in uh...that transition from him as superintendent to you as superintendent? Did he help that process along?

HM: Uh...I didn't uh...go in until he uh...I was assistant under him for two years.

J: I see. Un-hun.

HM: See. And uh...a teacher in the system for years before that and uh..he uh...uh...he uh...resigned and that made the vacancy.

J: What, now, which sixteen years exactly were you superintendent?

HM: I'm not...

J: Approximately.

HM: Approximately uh...from uh...about uh...1958 or nine on up to uh...I think uh...about seventy-four.

J: Okay. Now...

HM: That won't be...that won't be sixteen years but uh..it's that period in there.

J: Yeah. It's just...

HM: I'm not sure of the years myself. It's been too long ago.

J: Un-hun. Um.. and Troy was the fourteen years before that?

HM: Yeah. He was fourteen years before that.

J: Now his brother, I assume...

HM: Noah.

J: Was Noah Floyd. He was a real powerful political figure in this county.

HM: Yes.

J: What can you tell me about him?

HM: Well Noah Floyd was also teacher. He was assistant superintendent and uh...uh...he uh...the family. They had a sister that taught down at Chattaroy. They had uh...a other relatives that were associated with schools over around Delbarton. I don't remember their names now. They had one who left here to take a job in Maryland uh...he got a better job. He went to Maryland and had another brother that was uh...the health...he was the health uh...director I believe it was the title. Uh...he..he checked on restaurants, schools.

J: Now, Noah was state senator for a good while. Is that correct?

HM: The he was yeah...he was state senator for uh...about time and uh...uh...was uh...also in maybe another political officer too. Down here. He was assistant superintendent of schools at one time and uh....he was state senator and a member of the house of delegates first and then state senator and uh...then he was chairman I believe of the uh...democratic political party here in the county.

J: How bout Glen Taylor? You must have known Glen Taylor.

HM: I knew Glen uh...he taught with me when I was principal of Matewan High School. I knew him alot of years before that because then you had uh...you had uh...part of his territory was McDowell County and Mingo and McDowell and uh...Glen was a good school man. He was a good teacher uh...and he was a good senator.

J: He was also athletic coach at Matewan.

HM: He was coach here and a good one uh...back in the days uh..you know they had some really fine teams under him.

J: He taught all sports?

HM: He coached uh...football and I think basketball too. I believe he did. Yeah. I'm sure he did. He played football and uh...before he ever came here.

J: Now, after your ten years as superintendent, did you remain in the school system or did you retire at that time?

HM: Uh...when I...that made forty years and I retired. Came home and stayed uh...two weeks and they came down from Phelps, Kentucky and needed a principal at Phelps High School and uh...I agreed to go for one year until they could find somebody and I was up there three and there's a real fine group of people at Phelps. I never was treated any better in my life than I was up there. And of course uh..you know, I was..uh...I had enough years in. Went to help them out one year and stayed three and they said to me "Do you want placed back?" I said "Can you get somebody to take my place?" "Yes." I said, "Well then go ahead and do that then." I was there three years.

J: So all told you were in the...you were teachin' for forty...

HM: Forty...forty three years.

J: For forty-three years.

HM: Yes.

J: And that doesn't include the four years in the service.

HM: That doesn't include the four years in the service.

J: So now, do you describe yourself as retired?

HM: I'm retired. I've been retired.

J: Happily retired?

HM: It's uh...time to retire, forty-three years. That's enough time for anything.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection