Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Mrs. Rosa Nenni Ore Interview

John Hennen: Sound check on mike one. Interviewer's microphone. July 16, 1989. Sound check on mike two. Narrator's microphone. July 16, l989. It's Sunday afternoon. I'm in the home of Rosa Nenni Ore, formally of Matewan. Now of Huntington, West Virginia. This is John Hennen for the Matewan Development Center, preparing to conduct an oral history interview with Mrs. Ore.

Rosa Ore: They's three...three of us born in Rome.

J: You were born there?

RO: Yeah. My parents were married in Rome and they came over here in nineteen and fourteen. My daddy came first. Nineteen and fourteen and then my uh....mother and the three of us and an uncle of mine came over six months later.

J: You would have been about three years old at that time?

RO: About three.

J: Un-hun. I didn't realize that.

RO: I had two boys and a girl meaning I was the girl.

J: What was your father's occupation in Rome?

RO Well, it might....no...no. My daddy was a shoe...a shoe repairman. In fact, he could make shoes. And he was a stone, well he could work stonary and all that kind of stuff. He...he was jack of all trades. He could do lot of stuff.

J: What was your father's full name?

RO John...John Nenni. Just plain John Nenni.

J: And your mother?

RO: Antonia.

J: And your name is Rose or Rosa?

RO: Rosa.

J: Okay. so your father came over. Did he settle down somewhere before he sent for you all or?

RO: Grand Rapids, Michigan. You always go where your friends are and he had a nephew there...that was living there.

J: Un-hun. Was he able to find work right away?

RO: Yeah. He worked in the brass factory. Couldn't speak English but he spoke...it worked.

J: Was there a sizable Italian population in and around Grand Rapids?

RO No. We never...well, we never did lived in a...in a..in uh...a little Italian colony like most people do right now.

J: Um-hum.

RO We always had...we've always off to ourself. We lived in Grand Rapids. We had a little farm. Mother had farm uh...the animals you know, like cows and uh...pigs and raised...and they saved money on eighteen dollars a week. They saved money. When we came, they paid...they finished paying for their trip over here and then uh...they had money to come to West Virginia five years after they were there.

J: And...

RO: See...see they were thrifty.

J: Now had your father uh...answered an advertisement or something to...to line up coming to Grand er...he just knew he had this relative here and figured he'd just give it a chance.

RO: No. He..he...he knew of this relative and he went to Grand Rapids and then when mother came over, why, of course, she went there too.

J: Okay.

RO So, um...but now, we came to here..to West Virginia in five years later.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Fact is, I've got a good...a lot of information on my family history from Rome then from different people in our family .

J: That you've traced yourself?

RO: Yeah. I've traced back since...since in the late years.

J: Um...what brought about the move to West Virginia. Was it uh...

RO: Same thing was like they...like now, with this coal mining.

J: Un-hun.

RO: They were advertising or people just passed the word about that you can come and work in the mines and make money.

J: Okay.

RO: That...that's by word of mouth, really.

J: So your father and the family moved to West Virginia to work in the mines originally?

RO: They originally went to Pond Creek, Kentucky.

J: Okay.

RO: In the first place and then from there we went to Matewan. He never worked in the mines.

J: Never did huh?

RO: Never.

J: Then did he get involved with the shoe repair business?

RO: He...he put in the shoe shop there in...in Pond Creek and then when we went to Matewan, he had a shoe shop.

J: And where was that store? That shoe shop?

RO: In where. Matewan?

J: The one in Matewan. Un-hun.

RO: Well, you know where Greenway, oh well it's not called Greenway Hatfield. Greenway building now.

J: Un-hun. The Hatfield building.

RO: It's the Hatfield building.

J: So it's in that...the shoe repair was in the same building.

RO: It's a little place...it was in that little place there and now wait a minute, I'm wrong there. He...he actually builded a house and put it in his home to begin with. He put in the...down there later.

J: And this is the house that you moved into?

RO: And we lived in the house. It was a frame house. It was not a big one but it was his own house.

J: And where was that located?

RO: Right where the other house is now. Across the railroad track in Matewan.

J: Oh. Okay.

RO: In fact the...the other day they showed some pictures on...they aired that...first time I'm ever...they've ever shown that part of the town. It showed on there and I thought, dear god, I'd hate to live in there. (laughing) Be living there now. It looked awful.

J: Now, by the time you moved to Matewan, had the family increased in size over that five years?

RO: OH yeah. Yeah. Cause he had well, we had another daughter and another son. Harry, the one that's a doctor down there and...

J: So he was born in Michigan then?

RO: No. He was born in...the girl was born in Michigan and he was born in Pond Creek.

J: Okay. Was your family uh...would you consider it self sufficient? Did it raise a garden and have...did you always keep animals or...?

RO: No. Not in Matewan.

J: So...

RO: Mother always had a little garden but not...no, we were more or less business people.

J: Un-hun. Where you able...then you were able to buy food and things in down town Matewan?

RO: Oh, un-hun. Yeah. We bought mostly all the time. Bought our food. We didn't...mother wasn't that much for canning either.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Cause she cooked her meals each day.

J: Did your parents speak Italian or English in the household or both?

RO: They spoke Italian but we spoke English. The kids did. My mother learned...daddy learned because he was in the public.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Then mother would get mad because she couldn't even understand us half the time she'd say "It's pretty bad when you've got your own children and can't understand them." But we all...she got so she could.. she did alright too. She learned English. Mother was...they were both educated. When you have the education you know, I have a hard time learning.

J: You pick it up.

RO: That's right.

J: Un-hun.

TO: It didn't take my daddy that long to learn the language.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And uh...the other thing is the fact that they were not around Italian people . It gave them more of and incentive to learn because uh...they didn't have people to talk and we didn't speak English uh...Italian so they had to learn too. But they could both read and write.

J: Now, did you begin uh..your education in Matewan schools?

RO: Matewan. Un-hun. Yeah.

J: Do you remember your teachers? Any of your teachers?

RO: No. I couldn't tell you one of them. I don't think I...the only person I ever remember is Mrs. Hoskins. She was the principal and she was so..everybody..everybody in your home had her in their lifetime so you can remember her.

J: She lived right downtown there some place.

RO: Yeah. She did. She lived...lived to be pretty old too. She taught school right here for a good many years.

J: About what time did your father, I may not...I may be wrong about this but he I assume he expanded the shoe repair business into more of a full service department store. Is that...is that correct?

RO: He was in so many different businesses, that you wouldn't believe. He one time, well, he had the shoe shop and he had a bakery. He had a transfer business. On Saturday's, on weekends, he'd sell ice cream. On...off the truck. He would sell twenty-five...five, what were there...about three..no five containers of ice cream. They were five gallon...five gallons each on weekends up at Red Jacket through the baseball games and stuff like that. Go through the camps and they'd come out with their dishes full of ice cream. It...it was something else.

J: Now, did he make this ice cream himself?

RO: No...no. He bought it. He got it from Williamson.

J: So then he'd order it from Williamson and they'd bring it over on the trains?

RO: There'd come up on the train. Um-hum. But he was a go getter and he...he was in so many things. Well, then, he had the shoe shop. We got rid of the bakery. We got rid of the trucks and uh..he had the shoe shop and had some...had rented a bigger place for his shoe shop and we decided to go into the shoe store business so we started by opening up a shoe store. Then we opened uh...developed from that into a dry goods store and then he bought the building. The first building he bought, that belonged to him was the Keatley building.

J: The Keatley building?

RO: Yeah.

J: Which building was that?

RO: Well, now, there...it was the one that Eddie's store is in.

J: Okay.

RO: Now. In fact, he bought three building's there. Schaeffer building, the Keatley building, and the Testerman building. That one belonged to the Testerman that was killed.

J: Un-hun.

RO: The mayor.

J: And these are all right in the same block?

RO: Right in the same...right together. And let's see. He owned...he did own one right across the road. the one that has a pool room over on the other side of the..but he sold that. He...he sold that building and he owned our house but then finally, well, we inherited it and Eddie...we sold it all to Eddie cause my...my oldest brother stayed there and uh...stayed in business. He bought the business from my daddy and the rest of them got an education. They all got their tails out of there. You know.

J: Would the older brother...was the only one that stayed in...stayed in Matewan eventually.

RO: No. He was the only one.

J: And that would be Eddie's father.

RO: That's Eddie's father.(Triolio) And Bill, the one that, well he was the football coach. He died very young. When he was..I don't think he was about twenty-six or twenty-seven years old when he died. He was teaching over in Gilbert and coaching over there.

J: Un-hun.

RO: When that happened to him then all the rest of them went out and got a college degree and so they left there. They didn't stay.

J: Un-hun. Now, you mentioned your father use to own...I'm intrigued by this, sellin' this ice cream. He'd pick up the ice cream and go around the the different hollers and coal camps?

RO: ON a truck. He had a truck.

J: And to the baseball games. You said?

RO: yeah.

J: We're these like the coal camp ball teams that were playing?

RO: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's all it was. Wasn't no professionals comin' up in there then. It was just the uh..people around there but they'd get big crowds.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And he would sell them to....and he would drive along the coal camps with...where they had...they had the blacks separated from the other people at that time. Had a colony there that they call the black colony. So he'd go in there and man, I tell you, those people would wait for him to come with that ice cream. To get their dips of ice cream.

J: Did the blacks have ball teams too? Did they have black and white teams?

RO: I don't really remember. You know, I couldn't tell you...they might have all just played together. I really don't think they'd...they were separated.

J: Do you ever...that brings up another question. Do you ever remember seeing any evidence of the Ku Klux Klan in and around Matewan?

RO: Yes. Yes.

J: What uh...what...what do you remember about that?

RO: They would go around the other side of the river and burn the cross uh...where the cemetery is now.

J: Over in Kentucky?

RO: You could see it over there. Way over there. They were around. I can't tell you a whole lot about them but I know we were scared of them. We didn't...none of us wanted to see them.

J: Did they wear their hoods and everything and cover up there faces?

RO: Yeah. Always did. Un-hun.

J: You mentioned the transfer business. Does that mean like moving furniture and moving people in and out of houses?

RO: He worked for Red Jacket uh...did that for Red Jacket Coal Company. They would have people that would come in there to move in and work in the mines.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And so they would, he would go move them in then he'd send the bill to the coal company and they'd pay them so the...in other words, like the companies do now. You know, they have transfer people in when they get a job but uh...I guess they had a hard time gettin' people to work in the mines at that time. Didn't have enough of them so they'd move them in. But you know, they...they would always go on about what they didn't get way back years ago. you know, that in the mines...when they worked in the mines for five dollars a day, which was big money those days, cause you could buy more for five dollars than you can for fifty dollars today really.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And uh...they uh...uh...the coal company would move them and then they'd give them their house rent free, their electric, their water, their gas...their coal...not gas, coal. And doctor bill and what else did they have to do.

J: Did people pay sort of like a monthly fee to cover doctor bills and then they were taken care of?

RO: No. They didn't pay nothing.

J: There was nothing deducted?

RO: No. And but they never mentioned that when they...when they're hollerin' and screamin' about more money. They don't mention that. They go to...to the doctor. It didn't cost them anything. They'd even give them their medicine. So they really didn't work for nothing. They try to make you think they worked, that the company took advantage of them. I thought the company was pretty darn good to them.

J: Now, the doctors that uh...that the company would retain. Was these the same physicians that would...would attend to your family when you got sick?

RO: Hun-hun. No. they had a special...they had a special doctor there. Uh...in the camp that they could go to for anything course people didn't run to doctors like we do today anyhow.

J: Yeah. When one...when couple of the kids would get sick, like down with the croup or something like that, how would your...your family handle that? Would you call the doctor or did you have way's to take.....

RO: No we had...we had doctor in Matewan then. Dr. Hodge was our doctor for a long time for many years.

J: Un-hun.

RO: He uh...but people didn't run to the doctor for everything. I can remember my brother, the one that's...that was a coach and or passed away early in life having double pneumonia and was...my mother treated him at home.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And only time she called the doctor was when his fever got so high and he was...it was...he'd already been sick a couple weeks and Doctor Hodge said to her say's "Well he's had double pneumonia." Said "Mrs. Nenni, you're a good doctor."

J: Um-hum.

RO: She...she took care of him. She handled it as good as anybody could have handled it. Brought his fever down. she never let his fever go up. She would be sure to cool...cool his body, you know, with cold ice and so on and uh...but people used to be more capable of those things. I don't know.

J: So the doctor wasn't really called in in that case until after the crisis had...

RO: Yeah.

J: Had passed.

TO [sic]: That's right. And he'd tell her, he'd say, he always marveled at the fact that's she was always to capable to handle them .

J: Did Doctor Hodge have an nurse workin' with him?

RO: Um-hum. Yeah, he just had a little office and rode a horse.

J: Is that right?

RO: Yeah way back when he first started he rode a horse up through the town you know and around. Then I don't know whether he ever had a car later or not. I can't remember that part I guess he probably did.

J: Was his office downtown there some place?

RO: In Matewan. Right in the town course it was just a two-way, two block town, you know. But you know, it was...it was nice. I...it was a nice town I think to say to raise a big family. They couldn't get away from you too far.

J: Um-hum.

RO: I know um...daddy could get...walk out the door and if the boys weren't home, and whistle for them and the kids downtown say "John Nenni wants somebody. He's whistlin' for them." (laughing) With his whistle, they knew it was John Nenni's whistle and that's still is in the family.

J: SOme...is that his father whistles for the kids?

RO: For the boys cause they were the ones that were running around. We didn't. The girls stayed home.

J: How many times would...if he whistled more than once, uh...did that mean you were in trouble if you didn't come home yet?

RO: Uh..no. He...he was pretty patient. He was pretty patient. He was a good...he was a pretty good daddy. Can't..you know, he'd work hard all day and in the evenings, before he come...when he come home, he'd stop and buy a big bag of candy and then line the kids up and they'd have to spell or they'd have to uh...add or divide or something, you know. He...he would make you earn your candy. You didn't get it for nothing. And I...I think of it a lot of times now and I think, I know he was tired cause he worked all day. Wudn't like working five..eight hours a day. He'd work 'til late in the evenings.

J: Worked all the time.

RO: Yeah. He had to. But he...he accomplished a heck of a lot. RAised a good size family and educated them with it. And no welfare ever came...one of my sisters went to...well, all of my family went to Marshall.

J: Um-hum.

RO: Cause they came down here. One time, my daddy had three of them at Marshall. And by seven or eight in school, in school up there, and uh...one of my sisters was very...pretty smart. She graduated from high school in six...by the time she was sixteen and she was...she was commerce teacher. She taught in college and she wanted...when she was going to Marshall, she wanted a job to make her extra money, and they told here that she, well I...evidently they checked the amount because said that he made too much money and I said, I never felt that my daddy ever made to much money with that many children. You know.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And uh..we were just talkin' about that before she passed away. She said..I said " Ann I can't believe that." I said "That doesn't sound reasonable." But evidently (it) did.

J: Well, so much of the money he made would go back into his business I guess too.

RO: Well no. The, you know, like they do now, they check you before they give you a job in the school and all that stuff. Your income. I...I know daddy did a lot. He...like those buildings that he bought. The Keatley building wasn't much when he bought it. He got it from the bank. The lady...it was Hiram Keatley's mother building's who it was and she was...the bank sold it. She wasn't paying for it so the bank sold it. But it was...dad tore it down to a...to a shell and rebuilt it and of course, he was able to do the work himself and have people to help him so that uh...i guess you'd consider that money too because he saved money.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And that was the first building he bought. Then he bought the Testerman building next to that one. Then he bought the Schaeffer building later. Which as a three story building there. But uh...I guess he did have pretty good income I don't know. We never counted his money. He counted it himself.

J: Now did your mother have a hand in running the business's also?

RO: No.

J: He strictly did that...

RO: Oh she had...she had her say in it but she...she's...she left...she stayed home most of the time until late in life when the kids got grown and gone, why, she was with him down there working too but uh...everybody worked in our family. WHen you got big enough to work, you worked.

J: Un-hun. You either worked in one of the businesses or around the house.

RO: Yeah. I...well I sold shoes in the uh...shoe store at...after I got out of high school and I...before I got into the beauty shop business.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Then I decided I wasn't gonna get any place for workin' for my daddy so I played it smart and got a...went out and took a beauty course and I opened up a beauty shop. I had the first beauty shop up there.

J: In Matewan?

RO: Yeah.

J: When did you open that up?

RO: Well I was... guess I must have been about eighteen when I opened up.

J: Where was your shop?

RO: Rosa's Beauty Shop. Was Curly Top Beauty shop, really, was the name of it.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And I...I had a nice business there then...

J: Right downtown.

RO: Yeah. In daddy's building. Upstairs. We used to have some good times up there.

J: What did you do for uh...entertainment or recreation?

RO: I bet...I bet we had more fun than a lot of people in bigger towns.

J: Yeah.

RO: Well, after..when I was workin' for myself, I mean had the shop and all, uh...mother had a lot of work...house work you now, to keep up with the clothes for that many. Not like these women do today. Fold up wrinkled up clothes and put them in a drawer and let them put them on. WHy that beats me...

J: That's kind of the way I do it. (laughing)

RO: Oh, well, some clothes I do to. I'm not sayin' too much about that cause there's some clothes of mine that I do but anyway, I hired a black girl to go up there and work an help her so I wouldn't have to do it.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And, but see, now, that's the difference in a big family if their brought up right. We all had a hand in making the money that my daddy made.

J: Um-hum.

RO: My daddy paid nobody. But you got what you needed and if you..he'd give you spendin' money and all that stuff but uh...everybody worked and helped out and he say's, I don't...I won't run a boarding house, so nobody paid room and board. He said I don't run a boarding house so it's your home. But uh...everybody had to work

J: So, the family...your family then was sort of like its own little community in a way.

RO: Right. Right. Course when um...my brother, the one that taught school, he was a math teacher. He taught in Matewan, Bill did and one year, and then the next year he taught over in Gilbert uh....he was assistant coach to Glen TAylor.

J: Un-hun.

RO: In Matewan and then he had a chance to get the coaching job in Gilbert so he commuted. He...to Gilbert. He didn't stay over there.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And uh...right when we got older, we use to have a good time because we'd go to dances and we'd have fun. We had some big bands come in there.

J: Yeah. Where were the dance halls in...where...in the musicians. Where...

RO: Would you believe they use the high school building.

J: Okay.

RO: The gym. Cause I can remember we...and then they was up at Freeburn, Kentucky. We'd go up there there was dance hall there. We...we had a good time. You had to make your own fun.

J: How bout when you were a real little kid? WHat sort of things did you do for...what kind of games did you play or...

RO: I played hide-and-go-seek. Just the family. We never played with other kids. There wasn't that many around for...really as far as...because the school kids that were brought in there where bused in there. See, they came from Red Jacket. From Thacker.

J: Un-hun.

RO: So, weren't all Matewan children.

J: So there weren't a whole lot of kids in there...in town.

RO: No. Hun-un. Now, there's some of them that are still living. I got a few different friends that...like the Chamber's and the different ones that are still living around but we didn't go to there place. They'd come to our house quicker than we would go to their house.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Cause uh...Jim Chamber's..have you met Jim?

J: Um-hum.

RO: Well, Jim was just telling me not long ago that uh...he wanted...he wanted my mother to adopt him. I said "Jim, you're kiddin'." I said, "What the devil did you want over in our house with all of the gang that we had." He said, "But you all had more fun than anybody." Uh and said " I really wanted your mother to adopt me." I said, "Well, I have never heard that when I said, that was after I left home, I guess." CAuse, he is lot younger than I am.

J: Hum.

RO: Yeah. He said..and what he said he liked is cause mom cooked all the time. Mom always had good meals.

J: She always had food ready...ready huh?

RO: There's always...always room for more. Yeah. He tells me he use dot eat up there. Evidently after I left the house...the home for being the oldest uh...they...they had more time for the kids to have friends really.

J: Un-hun.

RO: But uh..my daddy was well liked by everybody. Everybody in...in..in and around the area, Thacker, Red Jacket, all that bunch.

J: Did anybody ever try to get your dad to get involved in political office? Did they ever try to get him to run for...

RO: When he...when he retired.

J: Un-hun.

RO: and quit work cause he...daddy retired when he was about fifty-five. He retired. When social security went in, it was just more book keeping and he had nice income coming in from the property cause he rentals.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And he decide to quit then. He said "I'll just quit and won't have to go through all that." Cause he...I think it scared him out of having to keep books that much you know, so anyway, uh...then he was just takin' it easy up there and they tried to get him to run for mayor of the town and they said "John, if you'll run we'll...we'll get you in." He said "Nope." SAid "You know..." say's "I'm a straight man." says "If I" says "I've never known a person that was good that..." now how was it he put it said "If you're not crooked before you get elected, you're crooked by the time you come out." (laughing) That was the way he put it.

J: And he wanted nothing to do with that?

RO: I don't want no part of it.

J: Who tried to get him to run. Do you remember?

RO: The...lot of the...Therman Chambers and all that bunch that was there at the time. Was with him there. He said "No, way. I don't want no part of it."

J: Hum. So when he retired at fifty-five, did he...did he slow down or..or..or did he continue to work?

RO: Well, when you've got buildings...when you've got buildings, you've always go something to do.

J: So he had management things.

RO: He took care of things. Yeah. He took care of that and he...he slowed down down but see, he had the...the dry goods store. My brother that was runnin' that.

J: Un-hun.

RO: So daddy wasn't in business himself. He sold the business he had and rented the place so he got rent from that.

J: Un-hun.

J: You mentioned before we got started with the taping, you were recounting some of the events of the, what's referred to as the Matewan Massacre. Take me over that again if you would. Tell me what your impression of the events of that day were or what...what you saw or what you've heard from people since then..

RO: The oh...well, this happened around three-thirty and four o'clock. Around late afternoon and I can't really remember if they had already gone around and taken people's guns from their homes or wanting their guns. That just vaguely goes through my mind. Somebody else might,...I don't know whether you find somebody else that would know more about it than I would or not.

J: You mean the detectives had been roundin' up guns?

RO: Yes. Someone from had to be the police department or detectives or somebody. But anyhow, so nobody was supposed to have guns in their house. That was the thing I'm tryin' to bring out and of course, then, when after the shooting, some of those fellows got away and you know, how you're not gonna stand their and try...get shot. Some of them got away from there and so they were lookin' for them and uh..goin' to houses that they thought they might be and you dared not to let them in. You now. You locked your doors. You didn't let anybody in. But uh...the um...I don't know whether...I'm just wonderin' who uh..who did get away. I can't remember. Because those people were all foreign people. There weren't not people who...from our town that came there.

J: I see, the Baldwin-Felts men.

RO: And wasn't none of the Matewan people that were killed. Except the mayor and he got shot I think durin' that time. But uh...so all night long you were scared to death. You just, you know, you were guarding your own house. You made sure nobody tried to break in on you.

J: Was there any...that night. Was there much activity downtown? Were the people around town?

RO: Everything was pretty quiet.

J: it was quite.

RO: Yeah. Yeah.

J: Now you...as a young girl, you saw the bodies of the detectives being loaded onto the train. Is that correct?

RO: Yeah. All of my family...well, my...I have a sister that's still living is five years younger than I am. She lives in California. She was just here a few weeks ago and we were talking about it and she was also gone through the whole thing again said she remembered when the train pulled out, all these people layin' on the ground dead. Those people didn't know they were gonna come into that. They were coming into the town to work. Go up there to work. That's what it was and they...it wasn't a matter of protecting yourself. Those other people had nothing. They were the ones that were waitin' for them because they knew they were gonna come up there to take their jobs. So, they...they uh...were shot and I, truthfully, I don't even remember. Course I wasn't probably never read the paper or anything like that at that age. So, even if it was in the paper I doubt it. Anything about it.

J: Un-hun. You...you'd said the day of the shooting, was it your father who had suspected that it was gonna be trouble?

RO: Well, he had heard down...down in his shop. He was down there in town and he heard that there was gonna be a chance of shooting so he came up in and warned mother to get all the kids in.

J: Um-hum. And did all you kids get home then..

RO: Yeah. Excepting my oldest brother but he was...he was down the...lower end of the town. We always called it the lower end and this Doctor Smith, was...lived in a big brick house. It's still there and he had him come in and kept him there until after it was all over with.

J: Um-hum.

RO: Until they quit shooting and he made it home.

J: Now, but even after this day, there was shooting from across the river.

RO: Yeah but...but they just...Yeah. But they weren't, I don't think...I don't know that they ever hit anybody or shot anybody. They were shooting toward our house and you could hear them one time they hit the electric wires cause you could hear them buzzin' through them, you know, and our house was directly across the road from them so we couldn't even get out of the house.

J: How long did that go on?

RO: For days. Maybe weeks. And that always puzzled me. I couldn't understand why in the world they would be over there shooting toward our place. They weren't shooting at us I don't know because we had nothing to do with the mines.

J: Was there any damage done to your house while that was going on? Do you recall?

RO: un...huh

J: During the period of the strike which lasted several months at least, did the schools in Matewan...did the school continue to stay open or did.

RO: That was in the summer.

J: Oh, was it.

RO: Yeah.

J: Most of the strike was during the summer.

RO: Yeah.

J' Okay.

RO: There was no schools goin' on.

J: That brings up another question. How...how many months of the year, approximately, did you go to school. Is it similar to the way it is set up now?

RO: Um-hum.

J: Okay.

RO: Yep.

J: Now, did you meet the fellow that you eventually married. Was he from Matewan or is he from somewhere else?

RO: He was Denor, Pennsylvania.

J: Okay.

RO: He came to Matewan to teach. He was our music teacher in our high school.

J: Un-hun. And this is Mr. Ore?

RO: Um-hum.

J: What was his full name?

RO: Bernard. Bernard A. Ore.

J: And did you meet him then as a student or had you already finished high school?

RO: No. hun-un. No. I was in business for myself.

J: You were runnin' the beauty shop there in town.

RO: Yeah.

J: Now. while he was...was courting you, were there any...any old world or was the structure of your dating process any different from then it is now?

RO: In...in

J: Or did he have to get a...come meet the family and...

RO No. he..well see, he started teachin' the same year that my brother started teachin'.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And my brother graduated from Marshall and he started teaching school. He was the math teacher and assistant coach and my husband came down to Matewan and it was funny because he was...he graduated from Ducane University and uh...Denor isn't...isn't a big town or wasn't a big town. It was not much of a town now but when he came down and applied for the job. He couldn't get a job in Pennsylvania close to Denor because he had a brother that was a music teacher too and he got a job in his home town but uh...so he had to apply and try to get a job away from home. He was offered a job in Michigan and he was offered the job in Mingo County. When he came up there to apply for the job. They didn't even take him up to the high school. They didn't let him even see the school because you know, after all, a man coming out of a place like that, he like Pittsburgh, cause he went to school in Pittsburgh and he was there. You know and it was a big joke. I always got a big kick out of it. So he had...he took the job because he figured if he went to Michigan, it was gonna be farther away from home and he wouldn't be able to drive back and...up to his home so he and I kidded him I said well, something drawed you there to Matewan you know, because I think he came in September and I met him the next day or two cause my brother brought him up the house. Daddy made wine so he said, he told him says "Come on, let's go up to uh...to a house and I'll give you some daigo? wine" and he came up and of course I met him and all that but I didn't start dating him or anything. We just knew each other and uh...he um...I guess I started dating him around Christmas time then we...we got married the year after that. But uh...I always said I had to meet somebody from out of town cause anybody you grow up with in the tiny little town, they're all your friends.

J: Un-hun.

RO: As far as that goes. But they're not people that you think you want to marry. Because you treat them all like they you do your brothers.

J: Now...

RO: So he got five years of experience and then got out of there

J: So he taught then five years in Matewan.

RO: No. He taught one year in Matewan. The rest in Williamson.

J: Oh. Okay.

RO: He went to Williamson the next year and then went from there to Stutenville, Ohio.

J: So, after you got married, you lived in Williamson?

RO: Uh...well, for a year.

J: Un-hun.

RO: Then after I had my first child, I moved back to Matewan cause I had my beauty shop and I let him do the driving. So he drove back and forth. He had the band. Had a real nice band. Go-od...everybody liked him. In fact, they didn't like the idea of him quitting but uh...he didn't want to stay around down here.

J: He had a band?

RO: Band director.

J: Okay. I see.

RO: You see all these new...all these pro...activities that they have out...at half time on the games?

J: right.

RO: Well, he did those maneuvers was back then when he first came down here and it was new then.

J: He started those at Matewan.

RO: Yeah. He had Williamson and uh..the Gentile...Tony Gentile was coaching in Williamson then and it was a fight between them trying...well, they'd say, the people are comin' to see the band, they're not comin' to see the team you know. But both of them...it took both of them to make the team. To make the game but he had...he had...they didn't want him to leave there.

J: Un-hun.

RO: But he was only there to get his experience. He...after he had five years experience, he moved out. Now in my family, there was school teachers uh...the ones that didn't get a college degree was the ones that didn't want it cause if they wanted it they could have gone on to college.

J: Un-hun.

RO: My parents believed in the girls and the boys gettin' an education.

J: Um-hum. Was that unusual for the area that...did most girls..?

RO: You didn't find...you didn't find very many other families You talked to anybody. The Chambers girl was Therman Chamber's daughter and he was...he was a big wheel in Matewan. He was on the Board of Education and all that but he was one of these guys you could do without. I mean, I never did like his disposition and neither did anybody...anybody in my family but the girl, his daughter, they was supposed to have money. They was supposed to have then, you know, in other words, they weren't the foreigners, we were the foreigners you know and everybody in my family, I have a brother that's a...he just retired uh...quit working down Ironton as a doctor and I had uh...sister that taught in college and two sisters...another sister that was a beauty operator and two sisters that taught...actually, I guess three girls taught school. so, the...they all got a good education. The one's that didn't, had a profession. And the boys too.

J: Was there any, that you recall, was there any anti-immigrant sentiment in the valley there which were attacks, racial attacks.

RO: Can't call Talley many a times.

J: Calley?

RO: Talley. It...they had just a little girl next door that lived next door to us. She was a Chamber's. All Chambers and Hatfields and McCoys there.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And she got mad at you . That would be the first thing she'd call you and I always waited for her to get...come by my house and I'd smack her and pull her hair and I told her I said "Next time you call me a Talley again..." I said, "You don't call me a Talley. I'm Italian." I said "And I'm proud of it." I said "But you're not calling me a nice name because that's why you're mad at me." And so anyway, and then they used to fight my brothers when they was young fellow. Kids his...their age and they used to fight them and you couldn't...you couldn't do anything. Then..I mean now, this was when we were right young, you know.

J: Um-hum.

RO: We grew up. We...we..we didn't have any enemies then. They were all the same. I mean it was just one big family. The town. Everybody. We were real well liked by everybody in town.

J: Hum.

RO: We didn't ask anyone for anything. We didn't have to go beggin'. In fact, I've heard them make their remark, "Why you all had more than anybody else." I said "Well I don't know about that part..." I said "We had what we needed."

J: When your father uh...say for instance, when he was involved in this transfer business and the bakery business, did he have several trucks that he sent all throughout the valley. Different people drivin' for him. Now did the...did the boys in the family do his drivin' or did he hire people to work for him?

RO: My brother and I drove a truck. The oldest one. That was before he got into a business in...the dry goods business and he would drive and he bought...my dad had a big rio truck and..

J: A big what truck?

RO: Rio.

J: Rio?

RO: Rio. They don't make them anymore. I haven't...I haven't heard of those trucks for years. In fact, I remember drivin' one of those big trucks my self, you know. I was between two boys and I'd have to beg them to teach me to drive.

J: Un-hun

RO: But um...I...I did drive it of course they didn't have all the gears like these bigger trucks have now.

J: Un-hun.

RO: But, anyway, that's what he had to move people in. And there were no roads hardly at all.

J: I was gonna say drivin' up in those hollers.

RO: Oh, you rode up...drove up creeks. It was really hard.

J: You drove in the creek bed?

RO: Yeah so you know, they was not nice highways like we have now.

J: So one of your brothers taught you how to drive that truck?

RO: Oh, yeah. In fact, I learn to drive...got my license when I was sixteen just like the boys did you know. But we'd always...always had cars. Had a car. Not a lot of cars. We weren't allowed to have cars of our own until we got old enough to buy them.

J: Was there a dealer in Matewan?

RO: Matewan...

J: Car dealer at that time?

RO: Yeah. Who was that. I don't remember. I bought my first car for one of my sisters to go...to teach. She was teaching over on Pigeon Creek and there's no transportation to go over there and I went down and uh...bought my Ford...thirty-six model Ford. It was six hundred and seventy some dollars.

J: Hum. Did you pay cash for it or set up...

RO: No. I ...I gave them I think two hundred dollars down cause I had to go to Will..I didn't even...I had a savings which I was snoopin' around. I wasn't ah letting everybody know I had it. When you got a bunch of sisters and brothers, if they know you've got a dollar, they'll help you spend it.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And uh...so I went down stairs and...I guess I must have been about twenty-three years old and I said uh..cause I had my shop and all and I said to daddy, I said ask him if I could buy a car. Now mind you. At that age, I ask him if I could buy the car and he looked at me and he said "You got the money?" And I said "Well, uh..yeah. I wouldn't ask you to let me buy it if I didn't have the money." And he said "Well, if you got the money, you buy it." So I had to go to Williamson but I went ahead and transacted the business so she could go on and take the car and go teach.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And I went down to get money out of the bank in Williamson to give a down payment and I think my payments were about twenty-five dollars a month or something like that. Course you...I guess you got a pretty much of a car. It run over those mountains.

J: Yeah.

RO: Bout..and those mountains weren't like they are now.

J: What was the business climate like downtown during the depression years?

RO: Oh. You know. It was fun. It's just a little country town really uh...on Saturday nights...Saturday...Fridays and Saturdays were big business nights. Everybody, they didn't have cars. People didn't have a lot of cars so if your goin' to Matewan, was goin' to a big town.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And that place you would not believe but those streets were packed with people. They'd go to the movie. They'd go um...into... my daddy, at one time had lunch room too. You name it, he's had it I think. He had a, well that was his last place of businesses that he run. He had the dry goods store all the time cause he run the lunch room himself. Sold beer and ice cream and sandwiches and stuff like that and people would come to town and just walk the streets and just eat and just have fun. They'd come in um...I..they must have had a bus that was driving. Coming into town so he was busy. It was really a lot of fun to see the people coming into town.

J: Now, was it like that up pretty much up until the time you moved from Matewan?

RO: Um...yeah I seen, in my..Yeah. By nine...I think nineteen and forty-three it was probably...around in there it was probably when daddy moved to Huntington.

J: Um-hum.

RO: But he still owned his buildings and all that stuff. But he moved to Huntington because I had uh...well he had three of them...two of them in school...in Marshall and he figured, why, he could come down here and buy a house and live down here and wouldn't have to pay room and board for them at Marshall and then he had others that would be going too so he moved down here then. But now up till then it was really busy. But after they started putting in all the highways and people got to buyin' cars why, I think they more or less went out of town. I don't know how it is now. Eddie says he closes up at four o'clock.

J: Um-hum. Yeah. It's pretty dead there in the evenings now.

RO: Well I..I really thought when Eddie said this morning in that paper, I said well...he says...you know that's not helping the business. People...were trying to...were trying to build Matewan up and here they are knockin' it down for them and that's true.

J: Yeah. There's not gonna be many people wantin' to come and visit.

RO: No.

J: As tense as it is.

RO: And...and it has been pretty good, I understand, that there had been a lot of people comin' up there and touring. To see the place.

J: um-hum.

RO: I um...thought they did a pretty good job with that story of Matewan.

J: Oh yeah. Yeah. The movie. Did you see the movie?

RO: Yeah. Well, we um...I didn't get to go to a movie and see it..in a theater but I rented the tape and then I watched it up...but my problem was, I was...too many people were wanting to watch it with me and I said, well, we can't all get together so the best thing I know to do is just rent a tape so I went over here and rented the tape. I had to put my name on the list and I played it...I played it on my son's tape um...VCR because he had a VHS and I got a Beta so I said Okay. So my brother, John, uh...that lives in town came out and course my son wanted to see it cause he was born in Matewan uh...we had a little hospital there so I uh...he was born in Matewan and course, my husband was teachin' in Williamson at the time but uh...we uh...we watched it but now like I said, that you know, they had left out some of those things now like the massacre of when they pulled out of there and all those dead people laying there. That was terrible. You know. Course they could have had..had it showin' but now exactly have the bodies there. Because, to me, I thought that that really was the part of the whole thing cause that's where it started.

J: Where, as you recall, where did most of the bodies fall?

RO: On the ground.

J: Well I mean...I mean were they in front of a particular store or were they spread out all along the track or...

RO: At that time, they kept the railroad, they kept building up higher an higher. They kept putting gravel under the you know.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And there was a sort of a little slope and there a railroad ties that made a little platform and they were all standing there waiting to..they came off the train and that's where the people would...I would say about...as wide as from here to there, the space.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And that's where they were. Close to the rail...

J: That's were all of them were hit.

RO: Yeah. As they got off the train. They shot em.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And of course, not..not being old enough to read the paper, and I don't know whether we even had a paper in our home town at that time. I tell you one thing, I have really been upset with this thing about our flag. Uh...bout the burning of the flag.

J: Um-hum.

RO: And you now, they...they go on about respecting the flag. Now when my daddy became an American citizen, in nineteen and twenty-three, cause I had a hard time gettin' my...my citizen papers straightened up when I wanted to go to Europe to get my passport uh...so I did finally catch up with it. Only...only trouble was nobody in Williamson knew what to do to help you to find out where to write to.

J: Um-hum.

RO: Well, I finally did get it and the...before I went to Rome and uh...but my daddy went to Williamson the day he was goin' down to...to put his citizenship paper and when he came home, he...he had passed. You know. He got his citizenship and mother said to him. "Are we or are we not" and he said "We are." And I can remember the celebration in my home.

J: Oh, yeah. Tell me about it.

RO: At that time. Because we were then American citizens and at that time, see when daddy got his paper, that took care of my...my citizenship and my two brothers and my mother. We didn't have to get separate ones.

J: Un-hun.

RO: At that time and then of course, the laws have changed since then but we had a big celebration at my house at that time uh...when the day that my daddy became a citizen of the United States.

J: What had...had he had to take an exam or something?

RO: Uh..he had to go to Williamson and...no, he had to answer questions. He had to know the preamble and all that stuff and he had to study it course his English wasn't real...real good but he um...I got a copy of the of his citizenship paper and then I got one of my own.

J: So did you have a family celebration or did you invite all the folks?

RO: No, just the family. We had enough of us that we...we always celebrated.

J: Now, you drank homemade wine? Your father made wine?

RO: yeah. Made wine. Made home brew for family. Not to sell.

J: Um-hum. There was a lot of bootleggin' goin' on around Matewan.

RO: Yeah. There was. They use to why, you could always, you know, uh...we would see lights up in the hills at night and I can remember we would sit and watch the lights moving up in the mountains you know and uh...course I was talkin' to my older brother and...and my youngest brother and we'd say "Are those bootleggers up on that hill up there makin' their moonshine?" And that's what was goin' on.

J: Hum. This was over in Kentucky?

RO: Uh...well in...round...we were sort of in a little...you know how Matewan is, it's just mountains all around you.

J: Un-hun.

RO: And you could see the lights at night and that's when they'd make their moonshine. You could see them moving around. It was quite now...people talk about the fact that you could get liquor uh...buy liquor in store uh...sell liquor over the counter and all that kind of stuff. I said it's much better than it was with bootleggin'.

J: Yeah.

RO: At least the states getting money out of it. Bootleggers were uh...they were really sellin' the liquor.

J: Were there places downtown in Matewan that...that sold liquor?

RO: No. Houses. Some...

J: Just private homes?

RO: Private homes that people would give it...go and get it. Moonshine. Not liquor. Moonshine.

J: Un-hun.

RO: (laughing) Cause that's what it was.

J: Is there anything else you wanted to...

RO: I think that's just about covers it.

J: Lot of times, folks have something they ant to talk about and I never ask the question and I hate to...I don't like to...

RO: I don't know...course but I think, let's, when was that, when daddy moved from Matewan then the rest of the family and we all left...

J: Un-hun.

RO: Except Triolio, and he stayed there but he stayed because he owned the business cause daddy uh...well, the girls got out and got their education and were teaching and were working and everybody else got away from there so it more or less left mother and dad there by themselves you know, and uh..so they just decided they'd move to Huntington this year. It was the best thing they ever did really. But then my mother passed away and my daddy remarried and he went back up there to live.

J: He went back to Matewan?

RO: Yeah.

J: Is that right?

RO: He went back up there uh...

J: Did he marry someone from that area in Matewan?

RO: He married...married a woman from Huntington. A very lovely person. She was a school teacher and uh...went back up there to live. Bought a house...he bought a house. He didn't live in the old house, you know, his house. He bought a house and uh...they lived in that and she taught school up in Matewan. Hazel Ray.

J: Hazel Ray?

RO: She taught school until she retired and she passed (away) I think....she been gone now. (tape cuts off)

Matewan Oral History Project Collection