Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Herman Hoskins Interview

Paul McAllister: Okay this is July 10th, 1991. It's Paul McAllister interviewing Herman Hoskins. Uh...Herman I'd like you to give your full name and your date of birth and where.

Herman Hoskins: My name is Herman Hoskins. I's born at Red Jacket, WV. July 6th 1916. My parents were Allen Lewis and Lucy Ray Hoskins. After about 1920 '21 we...after the feud the so called feud we moved to Vulcan for one year and then back. Dad bought the house here in Matewan and we lived here until their deaths.

P: Okay. I understand your father was the Mayor of Matewan at one time.

HH: Yes he was Mayor and Justice of the Peace both at the same time.

P: Same time.

HH: Had one office on this side of the track and one office on the other side of the track.

P: Were both on the elected positions.

HH: Uh-huh. Yeah they we're both elected.

P: Do you know by what years his terms were?

HH: Well when he was first elected Justice of the Peace he served ...had an office at Thacker and that was 1923...probably '24. The election year...at that time, they had to have two Justice of the Peace in each Magistrate or District and he his office was Thacker. In the mean time, he had moved the family here to Matewan. Then after the first term was up he ran again and was elected and had his office there in Matewan.

P: I see.

HH: And then after uh...I'd say about 1926 '27 some place there. He was elected Mayor and served both of those positions until I would say about 1930. No, let's see, I went to school in '32 he was still Mayor and Justice of the Peace then. I'd say about 1934 maybe '36.

P: Okay. What else did your father, do what was his occupation?

HH: Well, originally he came here from Kentucky as a young man and was a coal miner. And then after working in the mines for two years as a young man and after he married and started his family he got a job up at Red Jacket Coal Company as overseer...foreclosing on the houses, collecting rent. Moving people in and out and so forth.

P: And how long did he work?

HH: Uh...Really he...he had that job when we moved to Vulcan and that was 1921 I believe. And when he moved to Vulcan he had the same type of job.

P: Okay when you moved to Vulcan was because the way...because he was working at Vulcan.

HH: Yeah, yeah.

P: And your mother was she from this area.

HH: My mother was from Virginia down outside a little company town called Glade Hill south east of ????? And she and two of her brothers migrated into here and that was about the same time my dad came into Kentucky. That was about the time they met each other.

P: And what were her brother's names.

HH: Mack Patterson and Dennis Patterson. She had two other brothers who were Henry Patterson and Ben Patterson and Ben was a professional ?????? and Henry was a store manager for the coal companies. Various coal companies around mostly in McDowell county.

P: And how many were in your family...brothers and sisters.

HH: There was seven of us. Five boys and two girls....The five boys first and then the two girls were the youngest.

P: And what would their names be?

HH: Ralph was the oldest one. And Ralph was during the time that dad was Mayor and Justice of the Peace Ralph was chief of police here in Matewan. He later went in to State Police and the other one was William Remine known as Teak and he worked in the mines 'til he retired and then right before his death he was manager of the local liquor store. The next one was Allen Lewis Jr. and he went in the Navy right out of high school and stayed thirty years and he (unintelligible) and then I was next and then Paul...Paul was a started teaching school and then went into the service before the war and was a ????? in the Navy. The oldest sister Margaret left soon after high school and went to New Jersey to live out there and she has I think it's seven children up there. My youngest sister Mary Lou died when she was quiet young she had two children a boy and a girl. And my mother had to raise them because after she died her husband just lost interest in them and he just disappear-ed. So she raised those two kids Sharon the oldest of the two went to Concord graduated and was teaching school. And the youngest the son the boy Pat ??? graduated from Matewan High School and went in the Navy and got his A.B. Degree in Hospital Administrativeship and his masters Degree in business and now he's a full Commander in the Navy, thirty year service.

P: Thirty year service, impressive.

HH: There was a little funny story to it. When he graduated from high school my brother that was in the Navy just happened to be in town and he asked Pat what he was going to do. And he said, "well he didn't know." I said, "Pat, well if you don't know I do." Anytime you say you don't know, you're not going to do anything. But we're going to give you two choices. We helped raise you financially, and your either going to Concord or your going into the Navy take your choice. So he selected the Navy and bless me so he's a full commander and he's not thinking about coming out yet. He could be possibly an Admiral. But I thought it was pretty good a kid who just graduated I think without or at least he says without a little push from us he might have just still been hanging around here. But I didn't believe him about that. I thought he had more into him than that.

P: Can you commit on what it was like growing up in Matewan. Your memories of what you guys...school what you did for hobbies ...movie theatres...did you entertain yourself.

HH: Well we had no theatre then when we we're younger and later we got the theatre just across the street. But the up until I was in high school we had very little to do except play marbles. Marbles was our big game. We used to play out here between this building and the railroad. And we just had a continue thing going continually. And uh...all the boys were involved in it. Most of them are dead now. Venchie Morrell is left and possibly he and I are the only two left out of that gang that ran around together. The summer it was just a matter of getting your hair cut off...bald headed and taking your shoes off and bare foot all year. All summer. We had a little gymnasium as such because we had the little gym in the old grade school up there. But it was about thirty feet wide and maybe fifty feet long...a little ol' ceiling. But then the gym was not invited they didn't build it for the kids in the summer. You weren't allowed to use it. So we swam in Tug River all summer because then the water was as clear as crystal. Before they started dumping coal....coal. So the big thing for us all summer was swimming and playing marbles.

P: Playing mMarbles? What was the idea behind playing marbles? How did that work...the rules of the game?

HH: Well you drew a circle and the better you...the better marble player you become the bigger circle you want to draw. and you put a group of marbles in the middle of the ring. And you have what we called the tall. That's the marble that you did the shooting with in most cases that was a steelie. Steely marble. Nothing more than a steel ball barring. And you draw up and the first one to shoot and hits the group of marbles if you got one out of the circle you kept shooting until he missed. Failed to get one out. And the next guy would get up and take his chances. That's about all it was. But we played out here in these cinders down here. And the end of... when we started back to school our knuckles were just absolutely black all the way across here where that black dirt would ground down into our knuckles.

P: Where did you get the marbles? Were they commonly sold on...

HH: They were sold in stores and we used to get them in candy. Marshmallow candy would come and they'd have marbles in them maybe you could get ten for a penny or something like that. And then you'd trade...everybody kept a sack of marbles with them all the time. And we'd trade and if somebody had a good steely it might be worth forty or fifty marbles when we trade.

P: What would the merchants like that on downtown. Where would you sneak in for a ice cream cone or something like that.

HH: where about the only place we could get ice cream was down here at the drug store. Which about the second or third building. What is this east or west what street running....?

P: East that way West...

HH: West of where the theatre now is was a vacant lot then. And a man by the name of George Leccie ran that store. And they were good to us they'd give us little jobs to do and get enough money to get a cone of ice cream. But other than that we had down at the end of the Buskirk building the theatre was way back in the back of the Buskirk building back in the corner towards Matewan where Mate Creek comes into the river. We had a theatre back there.

P: In the Buskirk Building?

HH: No. Not in the Buskirk. In this high...old...high building out here. At one time it was a stable for the state police. You had no cars then you had horses and they kept their horses stables out there. And then they built...and then they started having the theatre in there. and it was suppose to went out of business when they built this one here. But we had a man there that had two...three boys lived right out here in the back end of town. That had a popcorn machine and he raised those family those three boys and his wife from that popcorn machine. A bag of popcorn cost you a nickel and a box of popcorn cost you a dime a big box.

P: How much did it cost you to see a movie?

HH: Well I guess I sneaked in so many times. I guess it was probably a dime something like that. I know when we first had the cafeteria at the high school which was 1928 we could...fifteen cents you could get a bowl of soup and a sandwich and a glass of milk. Good lunch for fifteen cents.

P: Can't do that today.

HH: No.

P: Now when you speak of the high school. That was the one they built in 1926.

HH: yeah.

P: Then before that what used to be the elementary school was the high school.

HH: We had the old wooden building on the right side of the street well Mate Creek...Mate Street that's what it is up there. Had a four room great old big building and that was the high school and then they built a brick building over on the other side and that was the high school moved over there upstairs and part of the grade school was down stairs and part of it remained in the old building. And then when they built the new high school the brick building that we had used for both grades the high school became an elementary school and we had the high school over in the new building. We had the nicest gymnasium in Southern West Virginia they used to have big big time bands that would come in there and have dances. And I mean all the big bands.

P: This was in the 1930's

HH: Yeah. Late '20's and early '30's and we had basketball games all the tournaments were held here in that because it was such a big gym compared to other gyms here in the area at that time.

P: Do you remember any of the names of any of the bands in particular.

HH: Red Nickels...Guy Lambardo [sic] ...uh I guess that's all that comes to mind right now but it was just not an uncommon at all to have a big dance there and people come from all over southern West Virginia come to that thing. To see all of those big bands.

P: Do you know who sponsored it?

HH: No, I don't really. We had some good good business people here. Frank Allara...Terry Hope and Terry's dad and the Shaffer's had the department store up here. Benny Arran...Benny was the manager of the...he was good. Dewey Hatfield. All the merchants took part in that. If we needed football uniforms or something like that they always help us out because when you went out for football your first year you had to have your own shoes. You had to buy your own shoes. So we didn't have any money and all the merchants would give us enough money to buy us a pair of shoes to play football in.

P: Interesting. You remember the names of your school teachers or principals.

HH: Yeah. My first grade school which was the third grade because first grade I went to Red Jacket...second grade I went to Vulcan and the third year I was...Lilly Downs she and her sister and two brothers lived just beyond the high school house on the same side. I thought then she was the best teacher I ever had...she was a good teacher. Then we moved across the hall in the forth [sic] grade and had Mannie Akers who was later married my uncle Dennis Patterson. then in fifth grade we got Lilly Downs again they moved her from third to fifth. Sixth grade we went across to the old brick building and the big wooden building and Mary Smith was our teacher there. And then we came back to seventh and eighth and had Martha Hoskins who was teacher and then principal. And probably the best...not probably...undoubtly the best teacher that could have been in this county. We know the difference between a good teacher. Some of he principals was a one of the greatest guys was a bachelor by the name of C.P. Guice. G.U.I.C.E. he came here from St. Albens [sic]. He was a great scout leader and he lived in the Buskirk Building. And he would just take the boys on hikes and scouting. And then we had C.P. Guice was first and then we had George Peirce...George Peirce was from ???? then we had Mr. Bancap who was originally from Delbarton and later went into law after he was principal of Matewan. And after that we just had normal principal (unintelligible) I had already gone to school awhile...College. First football coach that we had was Charlie Kiser(?) who had never played ball and knew nothing about it. He just took the job because they couldn't get a football coach.

P: That could have been interesting.

HH: So Charlie later left here and went to Harison [sic] County his home and became principal there. Then in 1927 or'28 we had Glen Taylor in here from ???? College and he was our football coach until we graduated.

P: Your on the team I take it.

HH: Yeah. And I played ??? enough to play four years high school football.

P: What position did you play.

HH: Halfback

P: Halfback. What kind of record did Matewan have in those days?

HH: Well we had some pretty good football teams. We played the better teams. Back then we played Williamson which was a much bigger school that ours and we played Logan...we played Welch. All those schools were much bigger than ours. And Guyan Valley over in Lincoln county. And I can remember our Junior year we were undefeated and we played Williamson. The two towns got together and organized a football game in Williamson in the middle of Dec...November. And we went ahead and played Wil-liamson down there and played them to a nothing nothing tie. Red Keatley who was the father of Jim Keatley who was recently principal of the high school. Now Red and I were running backs and on about the third or fourth play Red got his shoulder broken so left me with doing all the running and I'm sure if Red would have stayed in that ballgame we would have won it.

P: Who was your quarter back.

HH: Then I was.

P: You were.

HH: uh...huh. We played double A mostly and uh after the back or fullback which ever way we was shifted right or left came by with a fake...I faked to them then I could drop back and I could either pass or run with it. And uh...my Senior year we played...my senior year we went up to Maddington in Harrison County and got a football player by the name of Sinclare Jones who had been an all state football player his Junior year. And they called him touch down Jones. He came down here and stayed at Mary Tay...Mary White's home down here. And some of the local merchants gave him enough money to eat on and he was a senior that year and so was I and he didn't score a touchdown for us and the year before he had been an all state player up in Maddington. And one game I think it was Guyan Valley I had scored five touchdowns in the first half and the other half the coach told me not to touch the ball the second half to let Senclare Jones have it. But he still didn't score a touchdown. Whether that was legal or not I don't know back then.

P: Did Venchie Morrell play on the team

HH: No, Venchie didn't participate in athletics. He was in everything else though. Probably one of the best all around guys everybody liked Venchie. Just last night I had a call from Tommy McCoy...John's son he played football with me and he had told me he could get me some pictures that John had of us football players when we were in high school. But he called me last night and said he couldn't find them. I was hoping I could find them I'd like to have them. I knew that John had them and I'd had alot of them but my first year at Concord in the summer our home burned and burned everything I had didn't have anything not a stitch of clothes to go to school on. And as a result I lost all the pictures I had had in high school.

P: Was John on the Football team?

HH: John was a very good football player. He played Center.

P: played center?

HH: Played forward on the basketball team. He and I were forwards Red Keatley was center....McKensie and Dodosh were these two guards.

P: I see. And the basketball team was good also.

HH: yeah. We had...we had pretty results with our basketball teams. We had...that was about the time they were starting the state playoffs and we always had to go to Logan to participate in tournament over there. We never won it but we've been to the finals two or three times.

P: Who was the basketball coach?

HH: Dan Taylor

P: Dan...

HH: Dan was football and basketball coach. He was young just out of Salem College and had alot of pep and energy.

P: How about Baseball?

HH: We didn't have baseball. We used to play a little bit out here in the middle of the street we used to get out here and pass. But we had some boys that would have good baseball player. I wish we would had had it I would liked to have had an opportunity to play. And then when we went to Concord we didn't have baseball up there.

P: You went to Concord on an athletic scholarship.

HH: uh...huh

P: That was football.

HH: Cost me 15 dollars to go to school four years. The tuition was 15 dollars a semester. One semester the ??? manager called us all together and said now your all here on a football scholarship. Work program...we had to work...wash dishes, cut grass, whatever ...bestest we'd just start up and if we could pay the tuition for one semester we'd get them to price us some and all go at that rate the fifteen dollars. Paying for one semester.

P: You graduated 1932 from high school?

HH: high school...

P: And there were thirty-two...

HH: Thirty-two in the class yeah.

P: Who were some of you classmates?

HH: Well John McCoy of course...Venchie Morrell, Earnest Ward. Have you heard of Earnest?

P: I've heard of him, heard the name.

HH: Earnest was big in that he was chief of police and chief deputy. He's always been in law enforcement. One of the biggest rascals that ever lived, you know just mean. (unintelligible) We used to say that we was born to be killed and I guess he was killed after he retired from working from police work. I understand he was down at Hatfield Bottom some place and they was playing poker with somebody and somebody killed him. Then he didn't have a trial. Cause it was so relevant it was self-defense. ??? and Hazel Pitcock dad was later on the board of education here. I can't think of those two sisters now at Matewan. If I had time I think I could really sit down at right them all down and I think I could name all all thirty-two of them. Now there was Marcuis Chambers, there was Salmon and Reece Chambers and but were raised by a family down at Huntington. And Marcuis grew up in Huntington ???? in high school and then he came back up here to Matewan and lived with his sister and the husband was C.C. Miller here in...here in town. And he played football with us.

P: How many of your classmates went on to College?

HH: Well...

P: Would you guess?

HH: John and Marcuis we had an athletic director from Concord a man by the name of Dick Naminater. And Mr. Naminater came down here and was staying at the Urias Hotel and he had John and Marcuis and me come down to talk to us about Concord and then after we left that evening after dinner. (Pause in tape) But anyway John and Marcuis changed their minds and went to Concord...went to Bluefield and I went on to Concord. And after the first football season in Bluefield John and Marcuis quiet and came back to Matewan. And so in reality I guess I was the only one...

HH: I was the only one that went on to school.

P: And what did you study while you were at Concord?

HH: I majored in Social Studies and minored in physical education. Then after when I graduated I got a job down at Williamson as assistant football coach offensive coach...Because we had head coach an offensive coach and defensive coach and uh...I taught school and coached at Williamson for five years in the meantime I got into referring basketball and football games and apparently got to be pretty good in it because I was very successful in it and then I ended up as president of Inter-national Basketball Officials Association which is a world wide fourteen thousand member origination. The only West Virginian ever elected to that position.

P: What year was that? What was your term?

HH: uh...1956

P: 1956

HH: And the little funny story about it at that time the State Department...Federal State Department selected the basketball official in the United States to go tour Europe for a month six weeks something like that and explain basketball to these... Europeans and I was selected to do that and uh...that was the year my youngest daughter was born and she was...I was supposed to be leaving November 15th...get back January 1st and my wife wouldn't stand still for me being gone while it was a possibility of her going into the hospital by herself, so I didn't get to go.

P: Where were you living at that time?

HH: Well...I was livin' in St. Albans.

P: St. Albans

HH: I moved to St. Albans. Well let's see in 1972 then when the war started I was in the Navy for three years (unintelligible) back to Williamson. But we moved back to St. Albans and lived there until 1978.

P: And you were...

HH: I'm retired then and moved to Florida

P: Taught school in St. Albans.

HH: No. I was in the insurance business.

P: Insurance business. Okay.

HH: Education Mutual life back then the name implies we dealt mainly with school teachers. Then after the war we changed and started ??? other peoples business in the professional field.

P: And your wife was she a Matewan girl?

HH: No. Louise was from Williamson and she was teaching over at Pikeville, Kentucky. She graduated from Virginia Entermon a girls school in Tennessee. She's teaching over in Pikeville and I used to referee alot over there. And I had met her in the mean time and if I had a ballgame over there on Friday she'd usually ride back home with me. And that kept up and the first thing you know we got interested in each other and we got married.

P: What year did you get married in?

HH: 1939.

P: 1939...What was her maiden name?

HH: Maynard...

P: Maynard...

HH: Louise Maynard. Her father was Brad(?) Maynard who owned at one time the Williamson Colts(?) the baseball team.

P: A professional team?

HH: uh...huh. A professional team. Her granddad was John B. Maynard who was in the law enforcement business and he was killed right in front of Strosnighter in 1918 and after Brad died my wives father I got the gun he had on him when he got killed and I still have it.

P: Back from 1918. How about your family how many children did you raise?

HH: Well I used to like to tell people I had five daughter and each daughter had a brother. Which is true. But people would say ah... Herman you don't have ten kids. Just happen to be five girls and one boy. But we were very fortunate the oldest girl...they all went to College except one. She got married and had seven children and lives in Atlanta. My oldest daughter is supervisor of secondary education over in Kawanall [sic] County.

P: Her name?

HH: Becky Goodman...then Kay is the next one she among else(?) in Atlanta. Then Sue...Becky the oldest went to Marshall. Then Sue went to Concord, she's president of the community council in Charleston. Which guides and directs all funding for any type of private donations. A little money from the state. A little money from the feds (Federal) and it's tied up with the United Fund. Everybody sends it to that. She's got it real good. And then Rocky is the next one he's the boy and Rocky owns a restaurant in Johnson called Rocky's Mountain Cafe. And next is Ann and Ann is Director of the it's one of the travel agencies. I believe it's National Travel Agency. She's got it real good. And then the baby Jane she's the Director of Kindergartens in Kanawall [sic] county. She's in New York City right now working on a new text book that they wanted to adopt in West Virginia. Shes the only one selected from West Virginia to work with them on that book.

P: So their all doing pretty well.

HH: Their all doing well, we're proud of them.

P: Getting back to Matewan can you tell me when you were growing up in Matewan who the merchants were in town and what they sold and where their stores were and get an idea of what was what...

HH: Well starting here on this end of town the west end of town Cable Testerman first had that jewelry store. Then there was a restaurant there that was run by the Broggs family and belonged to them. And then Shafers...Joe Shafer had a department store that's where I remember everybody bought their clothes and shoes. And uh ...then we had a Jewish fellow that had sold used clothing and that was probably in this room right here.

P: Braum. Would that be a name.

HH: pardon.

P: Braum

HH: No

P: Okay

HH: Shear. Shear

P: Shear.

HH: And then my uncle Mack my mothers brother had a store down here in this end of the Hatfield Building. Kind of a general store then he later moved down and had a feed store he and Melt Williamson had a feedal store feed...horse and feed mule grass you know feed store. Down in this big tall building. I don't know if it's here or not.

P: Big tall wooden...feed store?

HH: And then John Brown had an old dry cleaning place in the old Dew Drop Inn. Then Bert Shannon had a two building...two store building for his groceries. And then later got one for the cleaning. Then the Hardware Broggs Chambers had the Hardware. And then the bank and that was all that was on this side.

P: Post Office was behind the bank?

HH: Post office was back out at the rail (tracks) behind the bank.

P: I've heard Shafer's store had a...it was...had a atrium up the center of it. Something was open in the center and there was three levels. Is that the way that was laid out? Inside?

HH: Yes. You could go up the front...I don't remember all of it. But that is right it had three different levels of it. Had ladies clothes down stairs basically. Then some mens in the back and then I've forgotten all the others what was up stairs...probably childrens clothes. But that was true there was different levels.

P: Do you ever remember seeing Cable Testerman?

HH: No.

P: But he did...the store he had was a jewelry store?

HH: uh...huh

P: What happened to it after Sid was killed? Did they sell the business. Did somebody move in there?

HH: Yeah. Somebody came in there. Later John Nenni put in a store there. He had a just sandwiches and beer and stuff like that. But I guess the store just faded away. I don't know the jewelry store.

P; Okay. You told me a story yesterday about this machine that you put a penny in and take a electrical shock. Where was that and could you tell the story again?

HH: That was in the first building there where John Nenni's store was and this whole side all these building here had two entrances we call it a front which is on the street side and the rear ones is on the railroad side. Coming in from the railroad side after you stepped in they had this all wooden flooring except right in the front there where they had this ??? is that the way you pronounce it? (unintelligible) And as soon as you go in you had this little cigar calendar there on your right. John had a what they call an electrical penny machine you drop a penny in and turn two knobs to see how far you could take it how much juice you could take. And we were in there one time and a fellow by the name of Jim McCoy was there and Venchie said Venchie Morrell said get ahold of this machine and turn it wide open and see how far you can take it. He said there wudn't nothing in it. I can turn it all the way. So he turned it all the way. And while it was all the way Venchie dropped a penny in it. And of course all the juice came out and it was strong. And Jim tried to get his hands away but he couldn't turn it aloose. Finally he got the machine up in the air and took a shaking and raking and finally he got it up high enough and the machine got low enough that he through it down and broke it all to pieces. John Nenni liked to kill us all to get us out of there. But, that was undoubtly the funniest thing I ever saw in my life. To see Jim with that electric machine trying to turn it alose. But that's the way ???? did things.

P: Did you guys get involved in any Halloween stunts and thing like that when you were?

HH: Oh yeah. That was one thing we always looked forward to to go up and take peoples swings off their porch and hide it and of course all of us would soap windows. And then the next day they'd pay us to clean it off and that's how we made a little money every year. And in the mean time the merchants got their windows good and clean. And one thing I remember that Uncle ??? Broggs that lived way up at the upper end of town. Up there where the road turns left across the railroad they had a big garden and had his corn all stocked up in shacks...stalks and uh...we went up there on Halloween and the boys went in and tore down the stalks of corn I didn't go in because we lived in the last house down the river in the lower end of town. And we had stalks of corn and I knew how much work it was. Aunt Martha was principal or teacher that was in the eighth grade the next day she said, "well, I heard that the Comanche Indians were out last night"...that's what she called us..."and went up and tore all of Uncle Eafs corn all down." And she looked at me and said, "right there sits the leader." So I convinced her that I didn't do it. And all the other boys told her I didn't do it. But, she really worked on those others. She was the type of person that she'd...you'd get the same whipping for doing something at night after dark or on weekends that you'd do...that you get if you were in classroom.

P: (Laughs)

HH: You were under her command for two years from daylight to dark, twelve months a year.

P: (Laughs)

HH: She's the only person in Mingo that has taught in ever type school, one room, two room, all the way including high school. And even up to County Superintendent of schools.

P: And she was uh...served that positons [sic] for a while.

HH: Huh-uh, County Superintendent of schools.

P: When...do you know what...about what year, or when she did that?

HH: What year was.....pause......I'd say '32, '31, '32, someplace there. I know this, when I's at Concord, she used to come there in summer and take classes. They had what they call "short term" after the public were out in spring, college was still going. And teachers would go and get in three weeks of classes of college. And she'd come up and do that. And then, two summers I went to summer school because I'd missed one semester do to a football injury. And of course she was up there then. And it was kind of strange to be in class with her, in summer. And uh...I graduated, got my degree from Concord 'fore she did.

P: (Laughs)

HH: She was going to Concord...she was up in her seventies 'fore she ever graduated.

P: Uh. Railroad station...do you remember much about trains coming in and out of town. Was that a big event.

HH: Oh yeah, yeah. That was one of the better jobs, being a station agent. G. T. Blankenship was agent. And uh...had three boys and one girl, Geraldine that married Ed Reams or Allen Reams. But uh...they were...that was something to go over and watch the trains. We'd all be over there for that, not only to see who's gotten off and on, passengers, but to watch 'em unload. They had these big oh truck things with four wheels that you had to push around by tongue. Then they'd take the produce and all the freight off. And they two people in town, Fred Burgraff and Uncle Bob Compton, who had teams of mules and would pick up the produce and so on and deliver it to the various merchants around in the area. They tell a story on George, that's G. T.'s oldest son, who was also one that was inspiring to succeed his dad. He had a job as uh...whatever it is...it wasn't agent, but it was up a Delorme where he kept communication going between Bluefield and Williamson. And George liked to drink a little bit and apparently he'd fallen asleep up 'ere on night and let one of them...No. 3...train go through and Bluefield kept calling. Said, "George has No. 3 gone through yet?" (He said,) "No, none gone by yet." So they called back, they said, "George, you haven't seen No. 3?" He said, "No." Well, the guy in Bluefield said, "Well, that engineer's in trouble because he must of gone down the Kentucky side 'cause he's settin' in Williamson. (Laughing)

P: (Laughing)

HH: George was asleep and missed it. So he got fired over that. But the...yeah the railroad was a big thing of course. And then we had a fellow by the name of Bill Kearn from Bluefield, who was an engineer on the fast freights. Course, the freights ran... those fast freights ran...faster than passenger trains. And Bill would start blowing up there around McCarr someplace when he was coming...going east...west. And everybody in town would get out and run out here on the railroads and see him going through. He never looked right or left, he just looked straight ahead. He'd sit there and he had that hand up there by the whistle and he'd blow. But he was a famous engineer, why I don't know, but every-body liked to see 'im 'cause he'd fly. I mean those...those freight trains that come through here just really rolling. It was something just to watch Bill Kearn.

P: They were all steam engines at that time.

HH: Oh yeah, yeah. Where we lived, first house coming in from Williamson, you go out every day...you had to go out and wipe off the swing and the windows and all because of the coal dust. And when you go down in the cornfield picking the corn you had to wear something over around your neck and up over head. Dirt come out of those corn...in that cornfield. Hit ya...just death? just...

P: Cinders and coal?

HH: Cinders, yeah, yeah.

P: They have a watering station, fuel take on at Matewan for the trains?

HH: No, that was up at...they had...the big one was up at Vulca, Vulca. (Vulcan, I think) But up here, along about...across from where Frank Allara lives now somewhat, so on, they had one there, a water tank there. But they...all trains stopped at Vulcan put on coal and water. And that would take them on to Bluefield or on to Williamson then to the yards.

P: Was there a station at Vulcan or just strictly take on the...

HH: Oh yeah, yeah. They had...every stop had uh...some of the small stops wouldn't have a station but they'd have some type building you know for the passengers to wait. But Vulcan was a big stop because that's where they'd stop and get the water and coal.

P: There's a station managers, Clare Overstreet, was that the name...

HH: No, Clare ran the post office.

P: Post Office, okay.

HH: Uh-huh. G.T. Blankenship was station...ever since...well, I guess, I don't know, I guess G.T. still had it when they closed it down. He was at one time sheriff, in fact, he was sheriff during the so-called feud (means to say, Massacre).

P: G.T. Blankenship.

HH: Uh-huh.

P: This uh...do you remember anything about this Matewan Massacre or Battle in 1920?

HH: No, not really. Where we lived...at that time, we lived at Red Jacket, and when the shooting started we thought it was... everybody around there thought it was a shifter (train engine) coming up. Shifter, what we called it then, the train that took the cars up. And we kept waitin' and waitin' and couldn't hear anything and all at once it just quit. And then we found out that...what had happened. It was very easy to get the news. Red Jacket had an old black man that was...we called him "Preacher" ...that would go through the camps every morning and holler out, "work today," or "no work today" or "no. 2 mines" or what not. And he came through and was telling...told everybody then what had happened. That...people that worked down there...quite a few people from Red Jacket were down here. But I did not see any of 'em and wouldn't normally got involved in it.

P: I'm sure there's a lot of rumors about that. Do you remember seeing any of the participants like, Sid Hatfield and....

HH: No, no. They were...the time we moved...see we didn't move to Matewan until '22...and uh...they were...that was all over and forgotten...wudn't forgotten but it was all over then...

P: Uh-huh.

HH: by the time we left Red Jacket and bought down here.

P: So when you lived a Red Jacket you didn't get to downtown Matewan that often.

HH: No.

P: But you did hear it happened? You could hear the gun fire?

HH: Oh yeah. Very...it's just vivid. I could...and of course growing up later on I talked to an awful lot of people that were actually here and used to tell us all about it. We'd get over to the pool room over to Billy Hatfield's pool room and somebody would come in and we'd get to talking to them. Asking them questions and they'd tell us about them. Of course it's like anything like that theres always different versions of it you know. Who actually fired the first shot and so on.

P: Well what have you heard about who fired the first shot?

HH: Well it was undoubtly I think that Sid Hatfield fired the first shot. I've never heard nor has anybody else never heard that disagrees with it.

P: Then did he shot the mayor?

HH: It's common knowledge that he shot Cable Testerman. And it's common knowledge that he married his wife. And the older people used to say it was common knowledge that they were seeing each other before the Feud. We had an older lady we called her Aunt Sallie Chambers she probably knew more about Matewan. Her sons were all...had well to do positions. But Aunt Sallie was just the type of person taht [sic] she and Aunt Martha Hoskins what ever went on in Matewan they knew about it. And it was true...when they told you something it was true. It was good times...we had well a man by the name of Bill Helmantiler he was superintendant of the mines up Alburn across the river. Do you know where Alburn is up there next to McCarr.

P: uh...huh

HH: Then Bill Helmantiler and then we had the superintendant down here at Yates and the superintendent up at New Howard. They were all public minded people that were interested in schools. And they used to be good to us football players. Needed a little money or jobs. And I was lucky enough I guess ???? to get a job in the city here in the summer cleaning streets and patching and so on.

P: When did they pave the streets in Matewan?

HH: Oh I think it was probably '25. that's when...I believe uh...I think I was in the fifth grade. If I had to bet on it I'd say '25.

P: So they put the under pass in before they ever paved? It says 1923 on the underpass? Do you remember back when that was put in?

HH: Yeah very easy. We used to..when Andy Blankenship and I. Andy lived his dad was the station manager lived right down here in this big house on the right and I lived on down. But we would run...we'd just...we'd run to Williamson and back.

P: Actually run?

HH: Actually run. And we uh...we would run to school. And before they had that we'd get on the railroad and run up the railroad. And come down in behind the school. But when I was in High school John McCoy and a bunch of us...not a bunch...four or five of us would get up in the morning and run down to the tunnel and take off our clothes and swim across the river and get to the other side and then come up across the bridge and come back and put our clothes and run back to school before school started.

P: This tunnel would be?

HH: The railroad tunnel

P: Oh. Hatfield Bottom

HH: Yeah.

P: Hatfield Tunnel

HH: We...we stayed in good shape and played football. We could have played a football game in November or in July. Or any time else. We always stayed in good shape.

P: That was one of the reasons you did that little run every morning?

HH: Yeah. Uh...huh. And of course dad had a big field down there. It had alot of corn in it and beans and we had to hole that and the other boys didn't have none. And of course if we were going to do something play some kind of game or go someplace if I had the corn to hole dad said when your corn is holed you can go. So the boys would come down and help me hole corn so I could go with them.

P: Was there a movie theatre in Red Jacket.

HH: Yeah. Yeah there was a movie theatre up there right across on the same side where they had the store and then you go up Mitchell Branch and then they had the movie setting over there. But it was it didn't have a roof on it you just go in and set on binches [sic]. And uh...of course it was a silent movie. Of course you know that. But if it started raining you had to head for the cover some place until it quit raining and then you go back in the movie.

P: Then the one down here I guess was designed for sound when they built it.

HH: Yeah this one here but the one...the big one back out town there I odn't [sic] remember whether I don't (pause in tape) We might have missed a little bit of that but I just got through saying I don't remember sound being in the picture in the movie in the back end of town. Which I definately [sic] remember the first movie to have... sound movie I saw was in Williamson.

P: The theatre here I think we talked about it yesterday was built in 1925?

P: There about's.

HH: No, No I believe, I would say It would be closer to, I'd say It would be closer to 27 to 28. I know after I was in high school Frank Allara gave me a job over there taking tickets. And...uh but I was up in high school then. Frank Allara and Terry Hope had it first, had the first theatre in there. Terry had a store down there next to the drug.

P: In the Buskirk building?

HH: Uh...huh, In the Buskirk building.

P: Do you remember uh...I guess you remember when it was Urias Hotel. And...uh.

HH: Oh yeah.

P: What was it like? Do you remember? Was it a very nice hotel?

HH: It was probably the best eating place around in the section. I can remember going in there and...uh we had a, had a doctor here who was a bachelor and he stayed in there, and he used to tell us all the time that the only reason he stayed here was to have a place to eat down there like that. Was very very fancy and had all solid silver and stem ware and was tablecloths, a beautiful place to eat.

P: Was it on the first floor?

HH: Uh...huh. On the first floor. Yep, right off when you go in off to the right it had stair steps it went upstairs and people that were up in the hotel part could come down those steps and right into the dining room without going outside.

P: Um...huh. Did it have a ballroom in it?

HH: Oh yeah ball, oh no the ballroom was upstairs.

P: Did it have a ballroom to it?

HH: Yeah, yeah. Oh, they used to have big dances there other than uh the big dances up at the gym...which it were later on...but years before that they always had the dances up in the hotel.

P: Where was the ball...up on...up second floor, which side was it, toward Mate Creek or back up toward the theater?

HH: What the...?

P: Ballroom.

HH: (The) Ballroom was in the back, towards the river.

P: Towards the river.

HH: Uh-huh. If you ever been up there, there uh kind of an alco up on second loor...uh...about ten or fifteen deep. And that was just for...just a place to set outside and, up on second floor and not be undercover.

P: Uh-huh.

HH: And the the ballroom was on the western part of that, of Mate Creek. Really, very nice.

P: Do you have any idea how many rooms were up in that hotel.

HH: No. The Buskirks of course had uh...this end of it, which would be the east end of it uh......I.....I guess maybe twenty, thirty of them up there. 'Cause I've been one of our high school principals as I said a while ago lived up there uh...and when I was in junior high I used to go up there alot and spend time with him.

P: So it was quiet an establishment in it's day?

HH: It certainly was. It sure was.

P: On the first floor you had the hardware store on the end

HH: Hardware store on the end.

P: And the entrance to the resturant [sic] and the Hotel.

HH: That was next uh...huh.

P: Then what, Hope's?

HH: Then Hope's they were seemed to me like another store in there too but Hope's was the bigger one the them.

P: Then Leckies Drug store?

HH: yeah. Leckies Drug store and that was the end of the Buskirk building and then the next building Mr. Compton had a grocery store in there and it was later a restuarant but all during when I was here a teenager growing up he had his grocery store in there.

P: Okay. That's the brick building next to there. Then theres the theatre.

HH: Then the theatre. And then were looking at the one right across the street in the two story building Mr. Smith had a little grocery store in there when I was a kid. His daughter was my sixth grade teacher and then Dewey Hatfield had a pool room over in the next room where the Flower Boutique is now. Bill Varney had a barber shop over there in the little part. But the ??? place in town after we grew up a little bit was over in Dewey's pool room. But my dad would never let any of his boys loak? in there. He just didn't like pool rooms. And back in those days a pool room was not the best place to to be around. But later on when I was in college I used to go in there quiet a bit a help Dewey he was very good to me.

P: Did they serve food and stuff in the pool room?

HH: Yeah. When you walked in front there was to the left there was a little cigar stand and...a tabacco [sic] stand and then a so called bar where you had stools there where you could sit up there. And then over to the right they had booths I think about four of them. And alot of people ate in there it was a good place to eat.

P: There were apartments or businesses up stairs?

HH: Uh...Doctor Simpkins had a dentist office up stairs and uh then later on uh...Doc. Sanders from Williamson the MD came up and had his office up stairs but all in the back was apartments. Jim Goble lived in the last one on the right. I believe Mrs. Talbert who came here as Ms. Montgomery was a school teacher I think she lived in one up there. And she later moved up over here in Chambers apartments. She was unmarried for a long time a real good teacher. And our supervisor when we were seniors and then long about that time or maybe after '32 she married Frank Talbert but they never had any children. Yes those apartments were very nice and as I've said before they was kind of an in thing to do to live in ???? that's what they called them back then instead of apartments. ???? in the Farfield building those were nice apartments up there real nice.

P: You don't remember who lived up stairs when you were a kid?

HH: Yeah. Raymond Chambers his dad Raymond was grown of course but uh...they had that apartment right way back down there across on the railroad. In high school we used to go up there and have parties and when I'd come home from college we'd have then but I just can't remember the people that lived. Seems to me like Boots Chambers had an apartment up there one time. Boots wasn't married then he married Faye Simpson later on a shcool teacher. It's just hard to remember who lived up there.

P: The Dew Drop Inn do you remember that establishment?

HH: Remember it very well...when it burned. John Brown owned it and Mary it his wife I think it was Mary's sister that had three children and she had just a young baby and the baby he burned up and I can remember she was outside and we was trying to consol her. She was screaming and crying that her baby was. But it was an old wooden building it just went up in no time.

P: And the dry cleaning business was in it?

HH: Uh...huh. P: The Dew Drop was that a Saloon or a resturant [sic]? HH: No it was akind of a it didn't have whiskey uh nor did it have beer. It was kind of a little resturant [sic] place in there in one part of it and had the dry cleaning in another part.

P: Do you remember Mr. Brown?

HH: Very well. John Brown was a good man and everybody liked him uh... never seen him with a shirt on he always just wore a T-shirt. But uh later on John had his place down here at the end to the right of tunnel where you go under the under pass. And later after that he moved over across the railroad. And uh I don't know whether it was John's place or the one next to it but I'm trying to think it was Johns that did to burn and back then everybody...I was in high school then everybody would get out and help put the fires out.

P: Volunteer fire department?

HH: uh...huh.

P: Was there a fire station over in town?

HH: No. It was not organized. We had a little place down here next to Aunt Karen that they used as a building and of course the only thing to do is hook up the hose closest place to the fire hydren (unintelligable)

P: What kind of...who'd you get the troops when you had a fire to get their attention was there a fire bell or.

HH: Yeah. We had the bells around and they'd ring those bells and then people would just start hollering fire...fire...fire and everybody get excited and come out. Of course you could see it if it were in town here. But it was surprising how how well word got around when you had a fire. But then all the houses were just wooden houses and old at that. I mean my dad's house burnt down when I was a freshman in Concord and then when they got fire they just went up in no time. Didn't last long.

P: Do you remember any of the Chamber family like E.B. Chambers?

HH: Oh I knew him very well. I've been in his home a number of times. He went over to the bank one time. I wanted to borrow 50 cents from the bank he gave me a form to fill out and said take this down and have Lucy sign it and bring it back and I'll give you fifty cents. So she had to go (laughing) But two of my good friends Roy Chambers and Andy Blakenship were kin to E.B. And we've eaten in his house many uh...many of times, go over there and eat. Be up town and it'd be noon and later and we'd want to eat and we'd go over there. But he made you eat everything you put on your plate.

P: (Laughing)

HH: Nothing was left.

P: But E. B., he was the founder of the bank.

HH: He was the founder of the bank.

P: Did he live up over the bank?

HH: No. His...he always live in that first big house right across the street from the bank.

P: Where the post office is now?

HH: Uh...now let's see, post office is actually in the dead end street. Itn't it? Right across there. Anyhow it was the first house.

P: First house. It's not there now?

HH: No, it's not there now. No, no, I take that back, the second house. Compton lived in the first house. And E. B....E. B. lived in the second house beyond Comptons there. And it was a great big house. His son Boots, of course there are...Lena was one, then one married Clare Overstreet. There were all married and gone except Boots. Boots stayed home, never did...(marry) Boots wudn't a hard worker. He like to....and they...course they had money and he could have anything he want. But he always wanted to be a deputy sheriff.

P: Did he...did he make that aspiration?

HH: Yeah, yeah. He made that one time. I think Dan, his brother, was sheriff, he...Dan appointed him deputy.

P: Now, Broggs Chamber ran the hardware store?

HH: Broggs had the hardware.

P: Is he a brother to E.B.? How'd that work?

HH: No. Broggs's dad had the hardware, started it. And then when Broggs got old enough and the old man quit, Broggs took it over. But E.B. was Broggs's uncle. Broggs...E.B.'s children were, the one that had the uh...years ago had the department store over there and later went to Huntington, in the insurance business. And Dan, and Ed and Boots and three girls. When Glen Taylor came to Matewan as coach, he tried to get everybody in town, especially people who had any money, to get 'em interest in athletics. He ask E. B. to come up to the basketball game one time and E.B. laughed at 'im and said, "If I had anything to do with it you wouldn't be paid. That's silly thing spending money playing basketball. So Glen told 'im to come up one time as his guest. Said, "it's not going to cost you a penny" said, "I just want you to see it." He came up and...as soon as you went in the gym right to the left you had to go up into the bleachers...and he gave him a seat right there by the...best seat in the house. And from then on, the old man never missed a game.

P: (Laughing)

HH: He went every ballgame. He was the boss of town.

P: E.B. Chambers was.

HH: Uh-huh. Owned the bank.

P: How about his wife, I understood she took over the bank for a short period of time.

HH: Yeah. I guess Dan maybe...I don't know...Dan was a little like Boots maybe, didn't wanna...hadn't settled down quite enough yet. He and Emma...I believe her name was Emma...I think she took it over then for a while. Not actually being in there but...'cause they had some good people in there. Guy by the name of Ed Ashburn and Allen Obrien, good bank people, they took care of it.

P: Uh-huh. But E. B. was...E.B.'s father and uh...would be the brother to Broggs Chambers's father? Would that be right?

HH: E.B. and Broggs's father...

P: would be brothers.

HH: Yeah.

P: So then, E. B.'s father would have been one of the early Chambers in the area? HH: I don't remember him at all. That would...see they opened the bank the year I's born, 1913, I believe. And I just...well I never heard of E.B.'s father. Whether he was orginally [sic] Chambers that came in here and settled. Then we had another family of Chambers, Bob's side of it. We call...and his name is Jim Chambers and he's...he married my aunt, my father's sister.

P: Is Reece Chambers on that side?

HH: No.

P: How did Reece fit in?

HH: I believe...honestly, I'm not sure. I believe he and Jim were on the same side.

P: Okay. One of these days I'll get somebody draw me a geneology [sic] of the Chambers family. I still can't get it straight. Uh...you remember R.W. Buskirk?

HH: I can remember 'im but not enough to say that I saw him do things, like this or that.

P: Uh-huh.

HH: I know he and Jim Pitcock's dad, who was Butler Pitcock... Butler was...when I was just a kid had a blacksmiths shop in town. First he had one up...at the upper end of town. Then later on moved out here after the old hopital [sic] burned, back out here. But he and Butler...I can just remember this...they hated each other. Why I don't know. But, you can remember things like that. But as far as actually seeing Bob Buskirk do something or...I can't say that.

P: Do you remember his establishments, like the Blue Goose Saloon?

HH: Yeah, yeah. I remember the Blue Goose very well. And they's also...right straight across the river behind uh...where we used to...what we ford? the river and up there on the back was a one story building was a saloon [transcript ends]

Matewan Oral History Project Collection