Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Jeanette Simpkins Interview

Becky Bailey: This is Becky Bailey for the Matewan Development Center. Wednesday, June 27, 1990. I'm in the home of Mrs. Jeannette Simpkins and my first question for you, Mrs. Simpkins is what is your whole name and when and where you were born?

Jeannette Simpkins: Okay. Jeannette Allen Chafins Simpkins.

B: Okay.

JS: And I was born at Sprigg, West Virginia, 1920.

B: Okay. And what were your parents names?

JS: Harry Allen.

B: Okay. And your mother's...

JS: Alice Allen.

B: Okay.

JS: Did you want my mother's maiden name?

B: Yes, ma'am. Please.

JS: Murphy. Alice Murphy.

B: Okay.

JS: Un-hun.

B: And were they both originally from Sprigg?

JS: No. Uh...my father was raised what they call Strangtown, Kentucky (Stringtown) across from Merrimac, down the Tug River.

B: Okay. And your mother?

JS: My mother was borned at Toler, Kentucky.

B: Okay.

JS: That's on Pond Creek.

B: How did they meet?

JS: They uh...were comin' through the mountains from Strangtown, Kentucky, goin' over on Pond Creek and uh...they met the Murphy daughters and my daddy and his brother, they both married sisters.

B: How many children were in each of their families?

JS: They were twelve in our family and thirteen in my uh...uncle's family, my uh...daddy's brother. Boyd Alan.

B: Okay. And...and how many brothers and sisters did your dad have?

JS: My dad had seven brothers and four sisters.

B: And your mother?

JS: My mother?

B: Un-hun.

JS: They were four brothers and three sisters.

B: What did um...do you know what your grandparents did?

JS: Well, my mother's father, my grandfather Murphy, he was school teacher. He taught school.

B: Even after he had a family?

JS: Oh yeah. That's what he done. He...he taught school.

B: Do you know the names of any of the schools that he taught?

JS: Uh...no, but it was around uh...what is now Belfry and Toler Kentucky. Right in that section right through there.

B: Okay. Did your mother ever know how he came to become a school teacher or how educated he was or anything?

JS: Well, he had a brother that was a lawyer in Louisville, Kentucky. Uncle Bev and he stayed mostly with him.

B: uh..huh

JS: He lived kindly on a plantation there....

B: uh..huh

JS: and uh...he sent him to school.

B: Un-hun.

JS: And back then, you didn't have to have all your degrees and everything like you do now but he...he was a school teacher. That's how he became a school teacher.

B: So, ya'll never knew where he went to school?

JS: No, it was around Kentucky. Around Louisville...Nicholasville, Kentucky.

B: Okay.

JS: In that area. My grandfather was eighty-nine years old when he died.

B: How about his wife? Do you know anything?

JS: Uh...my grandmother, she died before that uh...you know, I can ever remember. He never did remarry. He raised the children and taught school hisself.

B: Okay... How about on your father's side?

JS: Well, now, are you talkin' about occupation?

B: Un-hun.

JS: Well they farmed and made moonshine liquor. (laughing) That's what they did.

B: Did they ever tell ya'll about...if they sold it or...

JS: Oh yeah. They sold it. They sold it. That's how they made their livin'.

B: Okay. Do you know who would buy it from them or?

JS: Oh, they sold it. The people come from everywhere there to get it and they would take it like to the coal camps, and peddle it out like that.

B: Un-hun. Do you know anything about their operation?

JS: They had the still, yeah. They had the uh...the big still, the drums and had the copper things that went down in them. Yeah.

B: Okay. I was askin' that because um...my grandfather got a confiscated still that was made completely out of copper so I was wondering if you knew anything about what the still was made out of?

JS: Yeah. That's what it was.

B: Okay. What kind of things did they raise?

JS: Uh...corn, mostly corn and potatoes. We had...they a big old orchard. Big apple orchard. Back then, people had big orchards and all kinds of grapes and plums and peaches and everything. Everything was plentiful then.

B: Okay.

JS: It wasn't too easy to go out and get a mess of something to eat.

B: Un-hun. This is over at Strangtown?

JS: Strangtown, Kentucky, across from Merrimac, West Virginia, down Tug River, here. They call it Burnwell now, but it Strangtown, Kentucky. That's the original names. Now, my father's mother was a McCoy. Mary McCoy was my grandmother's name. On my daddy's side.

B: Was she related to any of the McCoys?

JS: All of them. They're all related through that area. Un-hun. Then the Hatfield-McCoy Feud.

B: Did you ever hear stories about that growin' up or?

JS: Oh, yeah. They had.. I had a great aunt used to come. Aunt Mary McCoy. She's named after my grandmother.

B: uh..huh

JS: And she use to bring, when I was just little, I'd say I was about four years old. We lived at Rawl, West Virginia, she'd come over and uh...get food my mother would supply and she'd bring the whiskey, they was still, you know, makin' that. My uncle Tom McCoy,

B: uh..huh

JS: and she'd tell us all kinds of tales.

B: Do you remember any of them?

JS: She's set us across the river, oh, they'd tell about you know, that...when the Hatfields were travelin' uh...they's tales about Devil Anse. She'd always tell us that he was a good kind man and

B: uh..huh

JS: he would drive through with his gang, she'd say, and if he wanted anything like flour out of the barrels, or any of their lard. They didn't call it lard, they called it renderings and they'd go get what they want and if they wanted a shoe for their horses, they'd go to the stable and get it and go on.

B: um....

JS: She'd tell us all those tales.

B: Did um...did the women in your family quilt or anything like that?

JS: Oh, yes...yes. Un-hun, on both sides honey.

B: How...how did they do it. Do you remember?

JS: And they'd weave too. They had the things that they weaved with. The spinning wheels and everything like that. That's how, and the yarn. They could make socks and everything.

B: Did they ever show you how to do it?

JS: No. Un-un. No. But my mother could do all that kind of stuff.

B: What did they use for dye to like color the yarn and stuff? Do you know?

JS: I don't really know, honey.

B: Alrighty. Let's see. Did um...was anybody in your family involved in uh...World War I, say any of your parents brothers? Did any of them fight in World War I?

JS: No. Hun-un. Okay. I had three in the second World War. Three brothers. One in the navy and two in the army. Had one that swam the Rhine River there.

B: Was that uh...with General Patton?

JS: Right. That's who he was with, General Patton. Third army. He said we'd have never won the war then if it wasn't for the Russians a helpin', the Germans could have won the war.

B: uh..huh

JS: The Russians helped.

B: The one that was in the navy, where did he serve?

JS: Uh...he was in south Pacific. Un-hun.

B: Did they all volunteer or what?

JS: They volunteered un-hun. They weren't drafted. They went on. Very patriotic.

B: When did they join up?

JS: Let's see um...in '40. In 1940, '41. They quit their jobs at Red Jacket Coal Company, Red Jacket, and they all went in service.

B: I'm gonna backtrack a little bit, what did your father do for a living?

JS: My father was a coal miner.

B: Okay. Do you know how he came to be a coal miner?

JS: Well, they left Strangtown, Kentucky, and he come over on the, when they, in 1918, when that strike was goin' on.

B: uh..huh

JS: Why they moved over into West Virginia and was livin' in tents down here at Merrimac. And my father was in all through that strike and he got shot. He got shot right through here. See, he was a union man and the scabs were shooting at him from across the river.

B: um...

JS: But, he survived it. He worked fifty-five years in the coal mines.

B: When um...when he first went to work, was that when they were still using mules?

JS: Mules. Un-hun. They had to dig the coal out and shovel it up and haul it out with the bank mules.

B: uh..huh

JS: They put it in a wagon. Now this was down at Merrimac and Rawl, West Virginia, down Tug River. We stayed right on Tug River, honey.

B: When did your parents get married?

JS: Well, let's see now. You can call my brother. He's got all that. Can I call my brother? He's..he's got all that.

B: We were talking off tape about when your parents got married, they got married in...

JS: 1906. Strangtown, Kentucky.

B: You say your mother was seventeen when they got married?

JS: Seventeen.

B: How old was your father?

JS: My father was eighteen. I wish you could talk to my sister, honey now, she knows everything. She's just seventy-four. (laughing) But I don't forget too much.

B: Um...you said to your...your sister that your father said your uncle shot him.

JS: Yes. He always said his brother shot him. Uncle J.P. Allen.

B: uh..huh

JS: He shot my father from the Kentucky side. Over at the Merrimac, there in 1918.

B: Why was that...why?

JS: They were trying to organize a union then. Thats when they first tried to start it you know.

B: Un-hun. And your uncle was opposed to this?

JS: Yes. He was opposed to it and my father was for it.

B: Why was your uncle opposed to it?

JS: Well, he just probably didn't understand it. My mother and father got out of where they lived over in Kentucky, where they could, you know, where they could do something and then of course, Uncle J.P. made liquor all the time. He...he made the moonshine,

B: uh..huh

JS: course, my great uncle, Tom McCoy, he made it too. That's who she (her sister from the phone call) was a laughin' about.

B: Uh-huh.

JS: We were laughin', she said, she didn't know if I could remember but she took my daddy over to uncle Tom's. Set him across the river in a boat and to get him some and um...to get him some moonshine and she said now," I don't want you to just get one drink," but he went in and he drank too much and she brought the boat back and come back home and got my brother to go get him and he like to never got him in the boat. (laughing) Hum.

B: So you say your aunt Betty...

JS: Aunt Betty, yeah, we used to go visit her and uh...she'd say," Lord, children, run out the creek and get us one of those little bottles and we'll have a little nip." And they'd give us some in a little tin cup. We just allowed a little bit.

B: So the women drank...

JS: Oh, right. Right. Yeah. I had a third cousin that called me the other day and uh...she's a McCoy, she came in here for a funeral and uh...she was talkin' about they had got some down there where she lives in Kentucky but way down near uh...Liberty, Kentucky and she said it sure didn't taste...she's eighty and she said it didn't taste like it used to. (laughing) She likes the good corn liquor (laughing) Yeah. Everybody had a nip, honey.

B: Well, sometimes, you hear about women who drink at home but they wouldn't drink out in public.

JS: Oh. No...no...no...hun-un. This was just like secret.

B: Okay.

JS: Un-hun.

B: Okay. How about smoking? Did...did..?

JS: They smoked pipes.

B: The women did?

JS: The women smoked pipes. I never did smoke a cigarette in my life and I don't drink coffee. We never was allowed to drink any coffee at our house. Us kids.

B: Um.....

JS: My mother and father had one cup and that was it.

B: Why was that? Why weren't you all allowed?

JS: That's just how we was raised. We had certain things that we had to do and that was it. We weren't allowed any coffee.

B: Were other um...children?

JS: People the same way.

B: Really.

JS: All throughout our family. My uncle, they...none of their kids. Our double first cousins, they weren't allowed any coffee either.

B: uh..huh Okay. Let's see.

JS: THey were just strict like that, you know.

B: Okay. When um...your parents are born and then when you all were born, did you all have a doctor or a mid-wife?

JS: No um...I was uh...had a doctor. uh..huh. Dr. Williams.

B: Do you know how much he charged?

JS: I don't...about five dollars. See, he worked for the coal company.

B: Un-hun. Which child were you? You say you were one of twelve?

JS: Un-hun. I'm about, let's see, Cash, and Clyde, and Carlie, and Harry and no, Lexie, and Cash and Clyde, Carlie and Junior, I'm the seventh.

B: Okay. Did your mother ever talk about the flu epidemic?

JS: Yeah. I had a sister, my oldest sister, almost died with it. She never did have health anymore after that.

B: Um.. What did they say about it? Did they talk about how they tried to treat people or?

JS: Yeah, they went and got, you know, herbs and things like that out of the hills and everything and ground hog grease and everything like that, but you know, hit...hit was what they called an epidemic.

B: um..

JS: They didn't even know what it, you know, what caused it or anything. Oh, it killed all kinds of people, honey.

B: um...

JS: And my sister never did have no health after that.

B: Was she always sickly after that?

JS: But she got married. Yeah, she was always sickly in her lungs like, but she got married when she's seventeen and had five children.

B: What kind of um...herbs and stuff did...did...did your family use?

JS: Well, they would go out and get, they used lots of cherry bark.

B: uh..huh

JS: They made tea out of cherry bark and they got um...uh...they used a lot of ginseng and yellow root and um...oh, let me think what that, they made tea for us all the time out of this uh...bark off of this tree uh...can't even think now. Oh you can buy it in the store sometimes. I can't think of the name of it.

B: Sassafras?

JS: Sassafras. They'd get the white and the reddish sassafras. They make tea and never took no medicine.

B: Why was that? Just you...

JS: Just they...they just uh...Un-hun.

B: Okay. How bout um...mustard plasters and stuff like that?

JS: Yeah, they used that with the dry mustard or yeah, when you had a real bad cold. And they would put that on you...on you and keep it so long.

B: Un-hun.

JS: My mother cooked that and I can smell it yet but I can't...I can't tell you how she cooked it.

B: Un-hun. Okay. What...what did they use ginseng for?

JS: They always gave us that like early in the spring, that was to uh... I guess, clean you out and get everything to goin' normal.

B: I know my parents said their parents used to worm them every spring...

JS: Yeah. Un-hun. But you never hear of that no more.

B: That's true.

JS: Un-hun.

B: Okay. Have you ever um...what did they do when people got the shingles?

JS: They killed a chicken. They hunted a black chicken and took the foot from that chicken and the blood and would uh...put it all the way around their body where that was and that killed that out.

B: We've heard different um...stories about whether or not it was just a black chicken or if it had to be a black rooster. Do you know?

JS: um...I don't...I don't think so. I just heared them say, you know, a black chicken. Un-hun.

B: Hum. Okay. You were born right in the middle of the trouble that was goin' on down here...

JS: Right.

B: Did your parents talk about it since your father was a union man here but he probably heard about it?

JS: Well, you know, they talked a lot about it but you know, uh...they had to work so hard, (laughter) my daddy did and everything. Yeah, I'd hear them talk about uh...Mother, what was her name, when she came one time. My mother seen her, the old woman that tried to organize the...

B: Mother Jones?

JS: Mother Jones. Un-hun.

B: Your mother saw her?

JS: Oh, yeah, down here at Merrimac. See, they just moved out of the tents when I was borned and they moved up to Sprigg. Cause I was born in 1920.

B: Un-hun. So, did your father go back to work?

JS: Oh, my daddy kept right on workin', honey, they went right on through that then uh..after we left Sprigg, why we come to Red Jacket and we stayed uh...we come to Red Jacket and never did move no more. We was just up and down this Tug River.

B: Uh..huh See, most people say um...when they lived in the tent colonies, the men weren't working. So was he working when he was in the tent...

JS: No, they was just out, you know, a shootin' at each other. (laughing) That old log used to be down there. We went all the time and seen it.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Un-hun. When we were little. The old beech log.

B: What was your father doing? So there was men actually shootin' back and forth...?

JS: Across the river.

B: Oh. Okay.

JS: Right. Un-hun.

B: Okay. What did your mother tell you about seein' Mother Jones? Did she describe her?

JS: Yeah. She was just talkin' about how kind, you know and she come to see everybody that was a livin' in the, well, the little places at that time.

B: Un-hun. Did your parents ever tell you all what it was like...since you weren't living, you don't remember it?

JS: Hun-un.

B: What it was like in the tent colony? They never said?

JS: No. Hun-un. They never did talk much about it.

B: Okay.

JS: But my daddy had a sister that lived here at what they called Stoney Mountain Camp. She lived in them. I've heared my mother tell about them walkin', you know, all the way up there to see my daddy's sister and her name was America.

B: Un-hun.

JS: That's the only sister my daddy, the rest was boys.

B: Un-hun. Her name was America?

JS: America. And we called her Merky.

B: Now, did her husband...?

JS: She was married to an Italian. See, there were a lot of Italians came in here. A Melmige.

B: Un-hun. Could you spell that for me? Or do you remember how to spell it?

JS: Uh...Maleige. M,A,L,E,I,G,E. I believe.

B: Okay.

JS: Frank Maleige.

B: Do you remember him very well?

JS: Yeah. I can remember mommy takin' us to their house.

B: Un-hun.

JS: When they'd moved out and was up Rutherford holler.

B: Un-hun.

JS: An old place up here at North Matewan.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Yeah.

B: How did they meet since he was an Italian?

JS: He just came into this area and I guess that's how they got, you know, together. When she was just a young girl. I can't tell you how they met, (laughter) honey.

B: I was just....wondering if anybody, you know, opposed them gettin' married because he was an Italian?

JS: No. No. Hun-un. (tape cuts off) See, we had Cherokee Indian in us and she was real dark, black headed and my father was black.

B: uh..huh

JS: Now, we take after my mother's side.

B: Oh, I'm sorry. Where did the Indian come from?

JS: Uh...from my father's mother.

B: Uh..huh How much Indian did she have in her? Do you...do you know?

JS: Um...I'd say about a half indian.

B: Uh...huh And you say your coloring, you took after your mother?

JS: My mother, after the Murphys. Un-hun.

B: Do you know, did they, were they um...Irish?

JS: They were...they were Scot-Irish.

B: Were there any stories in the family about...far back when the...any of the immigrants that were in youralls family that come over about, who had come over or anything?. Do you remember the stories about that?

JS: I can't just remember right off.

B: Uh...huh Did your aunt learn to cook Italian dishes?

JS: Oh, yes. Yes. She cooked everything. uh...huh.

B: How did she learn? Did he show her?

JS: He...he taught her how to cook it, un-hun. He was a great cook. I can remember the big macaroni's there and he cooked it in the big pots and he set right in the middle of the table.

B: Un-hun.

JS: A great big ah....macaroni we called it, it's Pasta now.

B: Un-hun.

JS: He'd fix all that.

B: Un-hun. Did he ever tell ya'll what part of Italy he came from?

JS: Um...I knew but I can't uh...think of the place. Just was a small place.

B: uh...huh

JS: Now him and that Benny Accica (sounds like Ackie) that used to be at Matewan that had the store, they came from the same little town, but I don't know. Have you ever been up to talk to Pauline and them about their father, at Red Jacket?

B: uh..huh

JS: Well, that's where uh...my uncle come from, he's named little Village.

B: Why did your father come to Red Jacket?

JS: Well um...he got a...got a job, see, you'd just travel from place to place and he got a job at Red Jacket and we came there. We came there in uh...'26. I was six years old.

B: Did you start school there?

JS: Un-hun. Yes.

B: What do you remember about going to school when you were little?

JS: Well, I can uh...I always had to walk to school. We had to buy our books and paper and everything. Everything we had.

B: Were the grades all mixed together or did you all have...?

JS: Well, they had first, second, and third together.

B: Okay. How far in school did you go? Did you graduate from high school?

JS: About...no, I went to the eleventh grade and quit. We was so poor and we didn't have nothin' (laughing) I wouldn't go. Let's see, my sister's husband got killed and she brought her four kids back home. My daddy raised those, too, and it was a hassle.

B: uh...huh. Was her husband...

JS: But...

B: killed in the...

JS: In the mines. He was killed in a coal mines up McDowell County.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Newhaul, West Virginia.

B: So what did you do when you quit school? Did you go to work?

JS: I just worked around, you know, for people in the camp and cleaned and warshed baby diapers when you'd have a baby(laughter) and make money.

B: When did you get married?

JS: I got married when I was twenty years old.

B: What was your husband's name?

JS: My first husband, he got killed in a mines, too. Alvin Chafins. (tape cuts off). (emotional moment)

B: How long had ya'll been married?

JS: We was married five years.

B: How did he get killed?

JS: Uh...he was a brakeman in that mines and he had uh...brought a tram of coal around and went back and was gonna eat lunch and uh...the man he was abstatin' he didn't know that he had set those cars off on that track and he let a tram loose on him and killed him. Crushed him to death. That was old thirty-two mine up Mitchell Branch. That's at Red Jacket.

B: How did you find out about it? Did they...?

JS: My daddy come by that evening goin' to work. He worked there and told me.

B: What kind of...did they give you any compensation for for his death?

JS: Oh, yeah. Un-hun. Just so much a month but...

B: Did you have any children by then?

JS: Un-hun. Yeah. I had two kids. Had two girls. That's all I had. Never did have no more.

B: When did you remarry?

JS: Um...about five years later. (tape cuts off)

B: And who did you marry then?

JS: Uh. Raymond Simpkins.

B: What did he do for a living?

JS: He was a miner, also.

B: How would you all have met? Did...did he...?

JS: I met him through uh...my brother was dating his sister. Un-hun. And he brought her over to visit us one day and he said that (tape cuts off)

B: Okay. We were talking about your...your second husband...

JS: Un-hun. Simpkins.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Right. All his parents' uh...family's on Beech Creek. The right hand fork of Beech Creek.

B: Okay. And how old was he when ya'll married?

JS: Um...he was workin' in the coal mines, let's see, he was about, he'd come out of service, he'd been in service. He's about in his early thirties.

B: Un-hun. Was this his first....

JS: First marriage, yes.

B: How long were ya'll married?

JS: We was married about twenty, twenty-six, twenty-seven years and he died.

B: Was it from...?

JS: Coal mine. He had pneumonocosis of the lungs.

B: Okay. Do you know where he served during the war?

JS: Un-hun. He was with the same outfit that my brother was. With that General Patton. In the third army and he was in Europe he was uh...in that area there, too.

B: Did they talk much about their war experiences?

JS: Never wanted to talk much about it.

B: Un-hun. Your brother that was in the navy, did...did he ever tell you about any of the...the battles or anything that he was involved in? Do you know...?

JS: No, I can't remember them.

B: Okay.

JS: Cause he got married not too long after he come back. And he went away, he got his job back, see, back then, when you went in service if you was workin' at a coal company, they give your job back when you come back. Well, he come back and worked two years at Red Jacket Coal Company and he left and went to Michigan, to Detroit and he retired from Ford Motors there and he married this uh...girl at Red Jacket, a Matney girl and he wasn't around too much.

B: Un-hun. Was your husband uh...Mr. Simpkins, was he still working when Red Jacket sold out...?

JS: Oh, yes. Un-hun.

B: What kind of difference did that make? Was there any difference once it was owned by Island Creek?

JS: No, everything went right along. Un-hun. His...he worked at seventeen the last mines up there that they had at Red Jacket.

B: Okay.

JS: Has anybody ever told you about Fred Cook that used to be over Red Jacket and you had to give him a calf or a hog every year if anybody got a job.

B: No.

JS: Uh...he lost two sons in the...in the war. They both went down on a ship together. Two sons. Fred Cook. And he had to buy a job. That's how you'd got them.

B: Now, (laughter) was this once the union had come in?

JS: Un-hun.

B: So...

JS: They was still controlling, they were. Un-hun.

B: And you had to give a...

JS: Like a calf or a...or a big hog every year to him.

B: Okay. What about um...one of the women I've interviewed is ah Bertha Damron. John Collins, her father, was the first um...

JS: Yeah. I know Bertha.

B: Union president.

JS: Yeah.

B: There at Red Jacket.

JS: John Collins. Un-hun.

B: Do you remember him?

JS: Yeah. He used to peddle. He used to have a truck he peddled stuff in too honey.

B: uh..huh

JS: Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was a big union person. He fought for the union.

B: Un-hun.

JS: And his son Steve, up there at Matewan, he's uh...in with it, too, up there at Matewan out of District seventeen.

B: Un-hun. Okay. What about some of the um...

JS: The unions is just about gone.

B: Un-hun.

JS: About what honey?

B: I was gonna ask you about some of the...the people in town. Do you remember uh...say Reece Chambers or...?

JS: Reece and them was a little bit kin to my daddy on...but I don't know how it was now. Yeah. Honey. I remember the Chambers'. I remember Dan Chambers and...and uh...Broggs Chambers and, you just ask me, I knowed all the people in Matewan just about. Ira Cooper, had the store.

B: About uh....?

JS: And the Ruples that run the restaurant, they used to, you should talk with her if they'd let you.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Have you ever talked with her?

B: No, but she's been suggested to...

JS: Un-hun.

B: try and get a hold of her.

JS: She's a good friend of mine.

B: Um...what about Broggs Chamber, because we heard a story that he would supply the union men with rifles during all the trouble. What kind of person was he?

JS: He was a good person, Broggs was. Everybody liked him. He was the Sheriff of this town. Ira Cooper was sheriff one time, but he was dirty. He stopped my daddy and his brother down here at Lick Creek and they had a lot of moonshine and he took it and kept hisself. My dad never did like him no more. (laughing).

B: That's a...in one interview it was mentioned that he uh...

JS: Uh-oh. I moved.( referring to microphone). Broggs or uh...oh, I'm still (unintelligible)

B: That um...Mr. Cooper took kickbacks from bootleggers.

JS: He did. Yeah.

B: They'd have to pay him...pay him off.

JS: Yeah, but my daddy and his brothers, they wouldn't work like that.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Hun-un.

B: Okay. What about um...Aunt Carrie. Did you ever hear about..?

JS: Oh, yeah. Lord Aunt Carrie. Yeah, everybody knowed Aunt Carrie. Her place was right there out there where you go out to the Baptist Church settin' there. She had every kind of crystal in the world,

B: uh..huh

JS: in her house. That's where my daddy used to go get him a, well all the people went there to get them a little shot. There wasn't a liquor store.

B: Un-hun.

JS: She bootlegged.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Yeah.

B: What about um...Meg Daniels. Did you ever hear...

JS: Yeah. Un-hun. Yeah. She was in Matewan too. Meg was.

B: Okay. And where was her place.

JS: Her place was out where you go through town and you know where the Coal City Part is? Sit kind of right out on that, before you go under the underpass. Almost where John Brown's place set there.

B: Okay. What do you remember about John Brown?

JS: Well I, that's where my daddy used to go all the time. (laughter) They called it the Dew Drop In.

B: Un-hun.

JS: See, there wasn't too many places then. But I can remember John and them. That's where we used to take our dry cleaning all the time.

B: Un-hun. Now, we've heard different things cause you know, he...him being black, we've heard one that he had white customers at the Dew Drop Inn then we heard that that's where the blacks went, now, did they go mixed or...?

JS: Un-hun. Yeah.

B: Was it whites or blacks?

JS: Well, now, honey, the...the whites always went there.

B: Un-hun. Okay.

JS: The whites. And honey, all the time we lived at Red Jacket, the colored people back in them days, they didn't fool with uh...white people. They lived in their own community and we lived in ours. It's not like it is now.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Alright. What do you remember about Dan Chambers?

JS: Well, I just uh...know he was a great man. (laughter) If we needed anything, he was , you see, over the bank and everything. Back then, if you needed twenty-five dollars or something, my daddy could go down to the bank and he's say, "Dan, I need twenty-five or hundred." Something like that and he'd say, "Okay, Harry," and uh...he'd give it to him and then you paid it back. It wudn't like you know, today, you got to pay it right there. You paid it back as you could. He was that kind of a man. That's how he built the bank and everybody was honest.

B: We've heard stories that he kept the bank open during the depression and...

JS: He did. That's the only bank that never folded under is the Matewan National Bank. And that was over on the other side there, right on the corner where them bullet holes is. Right there's where the bank was.

B: uh...huh

JS: You ever been up there and see where the vault was? It's all concreted upstairs. Up over that apartment.

B: Un-hun.

JS: You ought to go up there and look. The McCoy's owns that. Tom does.

B: Okay. How about um...some of the other politicians in this area?

JS: Well, Let's see now. They're awful crooked.(laughing)

B: That's what we've heard.

JS: Oh, god.

B: Do you remember Noah Floyd? Do you remember him?

JS: Oh, yeah. I knowed Noah Floyd. Yeah. (laughing) Uh...I worked a lot in politics.

B: Uh...huh Were you a Democrat or a Republican?

JS: I'm a Democrat. Never was a Republican in my life.

B: Did you work the polls or did you...

JS: Just, you know, get out and see that people'd go vote and everything.

B: Un-hun. Okay. What do you think of the stories that...that um...people pass around in Mingo about people buying votes. Did you ever hear or see any of that?

JS: No. Hun-un. Usually people just goed, went to the poll and voted and went right back home.

B: Okay.How about at uh...at the um...company, did...did the...were any of the men pressured?

JS: Well, used to they...they'd tell them how to vote. Un-hun.

B: How'd they do it? Do you know?

JS: I guess they told them in the mines when they had their little meetings.

B: Un-hun.

JS: And told them how to vote or they wouldn't have no jobs.

B: How about um...somebody we've heard about with the school board um...Billy Adair..?

JS: Billy?

B: Un-hun. Blind billy.

JS: Oh, Blind Billy. From Delbarton. Yeah, I know Blind Billy. Yeah, he controlled the Board for years and years there. They had to pay him so much.

B: uh...huh

JS: Every teacher had to pay so much. (laughing) OH. Bloody Mingo.

B: Every community's got...

JS: Got a little um...something hid away, hadn't it?

B: They got a few,.

JS: Un-hun.

B: Okay. How about any of..?

JS: I still love Mingo County.

B: Pardon?

JS: I still love Mingo County.

B: ( laughing) I do too. It's interesting at least, if nothing else.

JS: Yeah.

B: What about some of the um...the things in town. We've heard that there was a curfew for kids in town?

JS: Yeah.

B: For the young people.

JS: Un-hun.

B: Do you remember that?

JS: Yes. Un-hun. Wudn't nobody allowed on the streets or anything. I think it was about seven thirty or eight o'clock. Has anybody ever told you about the murder that happened on the street at Matewan?

B: Let's see...

JS: Um...now let me see if I can think of the girl...the woman's name they killed. Um...Henrietta McCoy had a little popcorn stand on the street there, Robert's sister, and I was sittin' upstairs, me and my husband at Murray Chafins, that was his uncles, and I heared a shot and they were readin' the paper. Well, Murray's wife had went downstairs and I said, "Well, that was a shot." And they got up and run down there and his wife had been shot.

B: Un-hun.

JS: There on the street but I can't think of her name now. And um...this Zeal...Zeal Collins, at North Matewan's, the one that shot her that works in the uh...uh...office down here in the court house back in there where you get um...records reports and things.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Over her husband. She claimed, you know, that she was goin' with her husband.

B: Un-hun.

JS: His name was Bill Collins. Lord, they'll kill each other (laughing) They's a triangle and um...we went down, there she was. Layin' on the streets there and she died. And she (the other women) never served a day.

B: uh...huh

JS: Never served a day for it.

B: What happened to the husband? Did they stay together or?

JS: Oh, yeah. Un-hun. Yeah. Yeah. She had a young baby at that time. I can remember when we went to the trials and she was settin' there holdin' that little baby in her hands.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Didn't...didn't go no where. That was Murray Chafin's wife, she killed, but I don't know her name. I can't think of it. Been so long. Been lot of killin's in Matewan. See, I believe it was Allen Hatfield that shot that um...Bay McCoy across in the railroad tracks. Anybody ever tell you about that? My brother'd just left, they'd been together. Harry Jr. just come home and he shot him.

B: Now, we've heard different stories. We've heard that the...the um...the McCoy was, basically, being disorderly and that it was...it was a face...

JS: It was a feud. They had been, you know, squabbling. Un-hun. And it just come to a showdown. And he killed him.

B: Okay. Hum. Okay. Do you think that um...some people from the outside say that's, these killin's and these kinds of things happens because people down here resort to violence too quickly. Do you think that's true?

JS: No

B: What do you...what do you think is the reason?

JS: Well, I think that anybody will try to protect theirself cause we had some tough laws in Matewan. Old Allen Hatfield. That's a no...no there cause he...he wanted to rule and uh..that's what he did and he had all the backing. So he's the one first, that uh...really started ruinin' Matewan. Alan Hatfield, then Ernest Hatfield who just died. And uh...let's see, what was his name, Maude Hal. They run the people out of town. Matewan used to be so busy had all kinds of business but they was after that dollar, if you went into town to do anything like drink a beer after you got off of work, before you drink it, they'd put you in jail and fine you. That's how they did it.

B: We heard um...that um...Ira Cooper would see people drinkin' and go have them arrested for being drunk in public to get the fine.

JS: Un-hun. He did.

B: Okay.

JS: His old brain eat out, honey. It popped out the top of his head. Yeah, he was dirty. Dirty. He'd try to charge people bills three or four times and uh...some of those stupid people, you know, that didnt' know the difference, why they would go ahead and pay it. And they was a family that lived by us at Red Jacket, they had paid for a kitchen cabinet and stove four or five time, honey, and one day, she came up home and brought the bills to mommy and she says uh,. "Miss Allen, I want you to look, says I don't owe those people nothin',said, we've paid and paid," see, they didn't have no education. Didn't know anything and uh...Mommy said," Well, you go back home and get all your bills and bring them up here." And they had been payin' like three years over to Ira Cooper, honey, for that stove and...and kitchen cabinet. Yeah, he was dirty. Un-hun. I'm mad cause he took my daddy's liquor. (laughing)

B: Well that's, you're not the only one we've heard such stories about him (laughing)from...

JS; Dirty, dirty. Oh, god. Yeah.

B: How much education did your mother have? Did she....

JS: Well, my mother, about the ninth grade and say average, oh, she, you know, she could do anything.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Yeah.

B: Okay. Was there anything else that you'd like to add?

JS: No, I don't reckon, we're just one of the families, that's all I know, up and down Tug River. Proud to be, honey. I'll live here 'til I die.

B: I just thought of one more question?

JS: Okay.

B: Um...we've heard that...that Halloween used to be quite a...a prank night for the youngsters in town. Were you ever involved in any...?

JS: No. We never...hun-un. We didn't...we weren't allowed to come to Matewan. I don't reckon I was ever at that show house, maybe twice, but now, um...Frank Allara was a good man. I want to say that. We'd save our scrip and uh...they'd be about five of us come and uh...on Bingo night when they started that and I'd say," Frank, we ain't got enough money, we can't all get in." He's say," Give me that money. Give it to Lida and go on in." And he was a good man. Yeah. He was good at the bank, too, Frank Allara was.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Alrighty. Well, thank you.

JS: But, you want to go over to the Rupples and talk to her.

B: Okay. Can you think of anyone else that we ought to talk to?

JS: Well, let's see now. My sister always went to Matewan alot. Zana, the one I just talked to, but she lives at Ragland. She always went to shows and everything. I never heared about that. Cause we had to walk everywhere we went.

B: Un-hun. Okay.

JS: My daddy only owned a couple cars in his whole lifetime.

B: Okay. Did you all live in a company house?

JS: Company house.

B: How big was it because you all would have had a big family?

JS: We had a huge house. We had upstairs. Have you been to Red Jacket? You know where the "y" is? I call it the "y". The second house on the left. That big house. That's where we first lived when we come to Red Jacket.

B: So, if you had a big family...?

JS: Got a big house. Right...Right. We had three bedrooms upstairs. Yeah.

B: Okay. Alrighty. Well, thank you.

JS: Un-hun. Are you gonna try to talk to Mrs. Mays or?...(tape cut off)

B: When we cut the tape off, we started talking about the flood and you were sayin' that um...the bridge that washed away. Did you see that break loose or um...?

JS: Well, I heard it you know, I could see it goin' down Tug River cause I was in uh...Hatfield Bottom back on that old road. This road right here, (present road to Williamson) old forty-nine goes around. But now, the old bridge that they put at Matewan, it's the one that come from down here at PMC, they called uh...that was down there at that uh...coal company. And they brought it up here to Matewan.

B: And you say...

JS: And it was there for years. And my mother run a boarding house. The old Ferrell place, down here now, at Mary Martha, uh..is the boarding house that my mother ran there.

B: Was this after your father's death?

JS: Oh, no. Hun-un. My daddy was workin' down there.

B: Okay.

JS: (phone rings) Oh, well. Okay.

B: Okay, and you say your mother ran the boarding house?

JS: Boarding house Un-hun. It's the old house that's still there.

B: Un-hun.

JS: And the Ferrell's own it. Faye Ferrell. Faye Lamberts Ferrell. Uh...did anybody mention about old man Nenni. John Nenni?

B: Just a little bit.

JS: He used to come to Red Jacket and get our shoes, in a coffee sack and he'd half sole our shoes and fix them and bring them back for a quarter.

B: For a quarter?

JS: For one quarter. Un-hun. And before we came to Red Jacket, he used to sell ice cream on Sunday, in a wagon down here, at Mary Martha, where I told you my mother run the boarding house. And he'd sell us an ice cream cone for five cents and it'd be a double header. And he came in a wagon.

B: With all of ya'll you children, did your mother have enough(laughter) money for everybody to have an ice cream cone?

JS: Yeah. Un-hun. Yeah. We sure did.

B: How did she take the job of...of working at the boardin' house?

JS: We just took it over, you know, cause we needed more money and everything.

B: Were there rooms for you all to stay there or did you all...?

JS: ya...uh....huh. Um-hum. Yeah. Plenty of rooms.

B; How big was this house?

JS: We had a big house. It sittin' down here in the hollow. You can see it if you go down, you know where this mining is down here at Rocky Holler? You cross the railroad tracks and go straight down, it's a grey like house sittin' in that holler there and we had a big, like a house out back , you know, that we usually lived and done all the cookin' in the house and the men stayed in there. And that was mostly bosses and people like that that came in. They didn't have no family there. And that's how my sister met her her husband.

B: How did your um...father feel about your sister marrying a boss if he was a union man. How did he feel about that?

JS: Well, he didn't much like it but he...he went along with it because my mommy wanted her to. You know, have him cause he was a nice man. My daddy, he opposed it but my mother, let her go ahead.

B: Did ya'll go to church?

JS: Un-hun.

B: What...what was your...your religion?

JS: We went to Church of Christ.

B: Okay.

JS: That's about the only church they was then. Coming to Red Jacket, we went to the Methodist church. That's that community church.

B: Un-hun.

JS: Yeah. We all went there. I went to Sunday school, taught Sunday school when I was eighteen years old at Red Jacket.

B: During the...the union troubles, I had a lady ask me if the...the Methodist church here in town, the minister spoke at Sid Hatfield's funeral, but did any of the churches support the union men? Did any...?

JS: Not too many. Hun-un.

B: Do you know which ones did? IF?

JS: Well, they weren't really too many churches back then but none of the, you know, like in Matewan or places like that.

B: Un-hun.

JS: They gave no haven to the poor miners.

B: UH...huh Okay. Well, thank you, one last time...(tape cuts off)

Matewan Oral History Project Collection