Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Addie Nowlin Interview

BECKY BAILEY: This is Becky Bailey on June 10, 1990. I'm at the home of Mrs. Nowlin. My first question Mrs. Nowlin is what is your full name, and when and where were you born?

Addie Dixon Nowlin: Addie Dixon Nowlin. I was born in 1908 at Delorme.

B: What were your parents names?

AN: John and Mary Marcum. But they wasn't married long. He was killed.

B: Un-hun.

AD: You know, he was uh...I guess got into it with somebody else and they shot him.

B: Un-hun. Okay. How many brothers and sisters did you have?

AD: I don't have any.

B: Just you.

AD: Just me.

B: Okay. Did your mother ever remarry?

AD: Yeah. I had a little sister, little brother but they died at babies. And my mother remarried but she never had no more children.

B: Un-hun. Did um...did your stepfather um...what did he do for a living? Was he a miner?

AD: Yes. Because about everybody threw here is a coal miner. They's not any more other work around here to pay anything, you know what I mean. Around here, it's just about all coal miners.

B: Un-hun. Okay. I um...do you know where your...your parents came from. Were they from this area?

AD: My mother was un-hun, she was from up there at Delorme where I was born but my daddy was from Jericho, Tennessee.

B: Do you know what had brought him to this area?

AD: Well, no...I...I don't. No, I don't remember hearin' anyone say what brought him to this area. I guess just out travelin' around and happened through here.

B: Okay. Do you remember um...the flu epidemic of 1919?

AD: The flu, yes, I remember something about that, I remember so many people a dyin' and uh..hit was, oh, hit was awful at the people died with...with that flu. I can remember that. Uh hearin' them, you know, talkin' so much and some, neighbor of mine, I know of one boy I can remember pretty well of him. His name was Andy, Andy Ferrell and he lost his mind and cut his throat with a razor. Um-hum. He was so bad off with that flu he went out of his mind. And I can remember hearin' talk about that and I remember, I remember him. I can, you know things stand out. I can remember him, a seein' him. He was an awful nice lookin' young boy and he uh...cut his throat with a razor, out of his mind you know, what he was a doin'.

B: Do you remember what time a year it hit around here?

AD: No, ma'am, I really don't. I'd say it was around nineteen, around 1916 or '17. Somewhere along there, I...I'd say it was around 1916 or '17, somewhere along there I'd say.

B: Do you...

AD: 'Cause...

B: Oh, I'm sorry.

AD: I was about eight years old, I think when that struck and...and uh...and that would have made me you see, hit'd be right around eight and eight is sixteen. That would have made it right around six...sixteen, 1916 when that struck, I think. And then World War I broke out in nineteen and seventeen.

B: Un-hun. What do you remember about World War I?

AD: Well, I can remember, not too much? Uh...1917, it broke out and uh...a lot of you know, boys old had to go to in service. And then uh...this '21 strike come and they was havin' such a awful time, with that, that they sent soldiers up there in Delorme where we lived. They sent soldiers up there to try to help with some the strike, you know, what I mean, course, seem like everybody was again' the union. They was...there was nobody sent out to help the union. It was just, you know what I mean? The soldiers was sent out to...supposed to try to stop the fightin', you know, and shootin' and killin' but I can remember them a talkin' about they was, well, in other words, everybody thought they was more on the, well I call them scabs, on the scab side and everything on the scab side, seem like.

B: Um-hum. What do you remember about the soldiers? Do you remember.

AD: Well, soldiers, they let them live in the...the...it was coal camps, you know, used to be we had, they was coal camps and houses all belonged to the company and they rented them, well, they'd let these soldiers live in their houses because they put the coal miners out and wouldn't let them live in their houses, the ones that joined the union. They put them out and wouldn't let them live in their house. And uh...the uh...uh...the union put them in tents different...different places, you know, they set up tents for them. The union. They set up tents for the union people and uh...because the coal companies put them out of the houses. And then, these soldiers they sent in here too. And they had what they called Baldwin thugs, (Felts) they called them instead of state police, they was called Baldwin thugs(Felts) and they was sent in here, you know, to try to stop the fightin'. You know what I mean, tryin' to quietin' everything down but it seem to me is everything more on the company side than it was the union.

B: Did uh...you and your family, did you all live in a...in a tent?

AD: No, my...my uh...father owned his own home. We owned our own place or we would have had to move out. But we owned our own place and it wasn't direct in Delorme, you know where Delorme's at, don't you? Well, it's across the river on Kentucky side. Where my parents owned their place and we didn't have to move but all that lived in company houses had to move out.

B: Was he for the union?

AD: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, my family was for the union but they used, I tell you, you know, they owned their own place, they didn't have to move. Other than that, they would have had to. They would have throwed them out.

B: How did...how did you know, as young as you were, that he was for the union.

AD: Well, I heared him a talkin' you know, I knew I remembered hearin' him a talkin' about they joined the union, you know, I remember hearin' my family a talkin' about it. I knew. I was about twelve or thirteen years old. I knew they was all union, you know. All out for the union. All my family was all out for the union. Yes, ma'am. I know that.

B: How did ya'll hear about the...the Matewan trouble down in...in 1921?

AD: Well, it was, Delorme's not far from Matewan, you know, you know where Matewan's at and it's not far apart. And you know, you get all the news that's goin' on and if you don't one way, you will another. Everybody else will hear it and come and tell you about it. (laughing)

B: Right. What did your um...your...your...your father or your stepfather, what did he think of that...did you hear him talk about it at all?

AD: Well, he was union, and naturally, he was on the union side. And I don't remember too much of talk. But he was..he was a union man and I...I know that and I remember, they was a man killed right up here on this bridge that washed off, the '77 flood that the bridge washed off right here. And I remember the, a Gooslin, uh...I believe his name was Ambrose Gooslin. I knew him real well, and he was shot down by company men. Scabs, I call them. Killed him right up here on this bridge and they, they had a drift mouth right up there on the hill where they run coal out you know and uh...company scabs would get up there, you know, and they'd shoot down at the union men and they had more of a chance at them than union men did them because they was up high a shootin' down and uh...um...they, well, they killed a lot right here, in this camp. And I remember that one man real well, Ambrose Gooslin and uh...his uh...his sister-in-law, his brother's wife lives in Delorme right now. Un-hun. She lives up there right now.

B: What's her name?

AD: Her name's Eunice Gooslin.

B: Okay. Okay.

AD: Yeah. He was killed up there on that bridge.

B: Un-hun. What do you remember about Sid Hatfield?

AD: Well, it just hear and talk, you know is all I remember about him. He was uh...killed up at Welch on the courthouse steps, they said and uh...he was...he was killed up at Welch, they's somebody shot him up there.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Do you remember anything about what people would say about him, I mean?

AD: Well, you know all the union liked, they praised him for what he was a doin' which you know, the company didn't have nothin' for him, you know how that goes. Well, in other words, they killed him. But he was a well liked man with the union.

B: Un-hun. What did um...people like your parents...

AD: Hun?

B: What did people like your parents think when uh...people tried to say that he killed Mayor Testerman to marry...(his wife)

AD: Uh, well he was killed too, Testerman was. Well, I just can't remember but they was, all I remember in that card is they was all union. And they was for anybody that was for the union and that's about all I know, I was just a child, you might say, about twelve for thirteen years old and I don't remember too much about it. I remember it, in ways, and other ways, I don't...I just don't remember too much about it.

B: Okay. Were there other strikes before the union became legal?

AD: Well, not that I remember of 'til '21. Now, they could have a been, yes, no doubt they was, but I don't no nothin' about it, you know, well, it probably wasn't in my day. But they's been a unions for years, you know, when they was a tryin' to establish a union through here, in '21 and John L. Lewis was their president, you see, and they was a tryin' to. But the scabs'd win, you know. And then this time, they beat the scabs because our great president (Franklin Roosevelt) that we had said, "all classes of labor can have a union if they want it." So that way, when he said that, why, then you see'd the men all gettin' them a charter...tickled to death...tickled to death. That was my husband was one of them. And he was president of the union's for years and years, and oh, they was just tickled to death gettin' them a charter. Formin' them a union and havin' union meeting and wages begin to raise. People begin to get to where they could live and uh..., the way it was, we couldn't hardly have anything and our men wasn't a makin' nothin' for us to hardly have anything. Well, when they got these unions, honey, then everything began to bloom. Yeah. I remember that real well, now, how everything began to bloom when my...when they formed, got them a union. 'Cause they was nothin' to keep them from it, you see, when John, when President Roosevelt said they, the president said they could have the union if they wanted it, then that took care of that. Oh, men was tickled to death. I remember my husband and I'll never forget, he come in from work and he said, "well, our great President said all labors of union can have a union if they want it. And how well pleased he was. Because he was goin' out before day light and comin' in way in the night. Just, you know, coal miners was just practically slaves and he was just tickled to death. When they got to get them a charter and form em' a union. They was tickled to death.

B: Did living conditions improve?

AD: Hun?

B: Did living condition improve?

AD: Oh, I reckon so, yes, ma'am. That was what we was all tickled about, livin' conditions improved. I reckon, they had to raise the wages and they had to put their hours down. They was a workin' all day and half the night for the same wages. All day and half the night for the same wages. And then they got the union, they had to put on three shifts. Day shift, and uh...hoot-owl shift, and night shift. They had to make three shifts out of it, where in the men was a doin' all of that for one wages. And then they got to havin' to pay them time and a half and when they'd call them out, call them back out to work extra, they had to pay extra. You know they was all tickled to death and how much better we was all gettin' along.

B: Did um...did the housing improve and things like that?

AD: Well, we all at that time, we all lived in you know, company houses. This here was a coal camp, right in here was a coal camp, un-hun. But the '77 flood, washed all the houses off but one row up there. It washed them off my house. I washed off all our houses. That's why I'm in a trailer. I own my place. But hit washed up off my house. Had a five room house and a bath and the '77 flood washed them all down. And uh...but this was a coal camp and this was where me and my husband lived. Un-hun. Before he was killed. He was killed in a mines. That's my first husband. Dixon. Hawkeye, as they call him over there's grandfather.

B: Okay. Um...what do you remember about growin' up? When did you go to school?

AD: I went to school at uh...at uh...Freeburn. Un-hun.

B: Okay. Do you remember anything about goin' to school when you were a little girl?

AD: Yeah.

B: What do you remember?

AD: I remember going to school and, cause I went to school about, I graduated uh...you know, in the eighth grade um...I went to school at Freeburn. Then I went to school at uh...at uh...well, it's not called Phelps, it's up there, they call it Fedscreek now. You know, I went to school up there. Went to school at both places because I lived up there on the Kentucky side of the river, you know, where that's at, and uh...I went to school both places.

B: Un-hun. What kind of...do you remember, say any of the games anything that you all would play when you were little?

AD: What's the games that we would play? Well, no I, I don't remember just that.

B: Un-hun. Did you have dolls or...or anything?

AD: OH, yes. Yes, ma'am. You know we had dolls. Make play houses. Get out and make play houses, we did, you know, us children, get out and make play houses, like we'd get rocks and set them up for furniture you know, and make play houses, yeah. Make play houses with dolls, yeah, that's what we did and then that was when we was all small, when I was small, brother, I'd say, that's the way we played.

B: How old were you when you met your first husband?

AD: I say, I was married when I was seventeen years old.

B: Had you worked before you got married?

AD: Well, no. I didn't have no, workin' for nobody, un-un.

B: Did you just...

AD: Yeah, just at home, you know, seventeen years old.

B: Un-hun. How long did you all court? What...what did you all, did you all date or?

AD: Well, I was about sixteen when I met him and, it was about a year, I'd say, a year goin on two year before we married, un-hun.

B: Okay. Where did...

AD: And he was from North Carolina. Was that what you was aimin' to ask me? He was from North Carolina. Statesville, North Carolina. And they would send men in here to take these union men's jobs, you know, understand what I'm a talkin' about? Well, he come in here in this part of the country on transportation. They'd pay their ways here to take these men's jobs. Well, he didn't know what it was all about because, there in North Carolina, they was no coal minin', no union. He didn't, and he come here on transportation, not really knowin' what it was all about, but when he got here and he joined the union and was one of them (laughing). Now that was in '21. Cause he was uh...six years older than me.

B: Un-hun. Did he ever talk to you about um...when they were...when they did get them up here, after they transported them up here, did he ever tell you about what they had told him about comin' here? Did they...

AD: Well, yeah, they told him they wanted him to come work in the mines. And uh...he wanted to come and work in the mines and they told him they was a strike a goin' on, too. But really, he..he told me that he didn't really know what it was all about. He come on with the tran...come with the transportation to get him a job, well, when he got here. He learned that they was uh...havin' trouble,you know, shootin' and a killin' and a havin' trouble and he knew, he learned what the men was a fightin' for. They was fightin' for high...higher wages. Better pay and uh...not bein' slaves and uh...so he...he joined the union and he was one of them. Instead of...instead of takin' their jobs, he was one of them. (laughing) oh, I'm sorry. He was one of them. Instead of taking their job, he was one of them. So, see what it was all about.

B: So he was a union man, too?

AD: Who?

B: Your husband.

AD: OH, yes, yes ma'am.

B: Did you all have children?

AD: Uh...Yeah. We had uh...five.

B: Okay. Did a...

AD: Me and my last husband didn't have no children together.

B: Did a company doctor help you deliver those children?

AD: Yes. Un-hun.

B: Do you remember...

AD: Come to the house. Un-hun. Yeah.

B: Do you remember his name?

AD: Well, I tell you, ma'am, I'm awful forgetful. I know a lot of their names but right at hand, I can't call them off because I am forgetful. Doctor Sanders (or Saunders) was one doctor. And uh...the other one. I seem like it's right on the end of my tongue but I can't speak his name. But just different doctors, you know. And uh...They'd go to the...go to the, the company would have an office in their store. They had a company store, you know, for their men to trade and they was an office at uh...bookkeeper. And you'd go down to the bookkeepers office and uh...leave a call for the doctor. The doctor come and made his rounds every day, you know, ain't like it is now. Come and made his rounds everyday. Well, he'd go up and get your call at the office that you wanted him to come to your house that day, someone in your family was sick. Well, they didn't come to your house, you see. Well, then, that's how the doctor would come and one of us would have a baby and leave a call and well, if he couldn't do...do it that way, uh...when you get set to have a baby, call him at Matewan. 'Cause he'd have an office in Matewan. Call him and he'd come. He could come up here and go to any house that needed him. But he made his rounds every morning. Every morning, he made his rounds. Come up in the coal camp and get his orders, what house to go to. But if you needed him in between time, you could call him. He had an office right down at Matewan. And we had several different doctors, you know, they'd come and go like everything else.

B: How many telephones were up in this area at that time?

AD: Well, everybody didn't have one like they have now. I've got three now. One in two bedrooms, one in here but everybody didn't then. I didn't have one then. But you could go down to the office and call the doctor down at the coal company store there in that office and tell the bookkeeper and he'd call the doctor. And if it was in the night time you needed him, a lot of times, you'd have to walk to Matewan after him. And if you didn't have a phone, and the office would be closed up, hit way in the night, a lot of times, you'd have to walk down there after him.

B: When um...if a woman had a baby or was havin' a baby while her husband was workin' did they go get him? Or did he just find out that he had a baby when he got off of work?

AD: Well, they'd uh...some of the of family, you know, called the doctor and the doctor would be right there and deliver the baby. Well naturally, if you wanted your husband with you, somebody would go to the mines after him. They'd have to go if we didn't have no phone. They would walk but, my husband lived, my husband worked up in this holler here. Now this mines is shut down now. He was killed there and this mines is shut down now but, hit wasn't too far to walk up there. The drift mouth made any man go inside and tell him to come out, your wife's having a baby. He'd get out and come home, yes ma'am, and that's along that line is the way we lived.

B: Did...did most men come home when their wife was havin' a baby?

AD: Well, I don't know about that. I know mine would.

B: Okay. When you were growin' up and then after you got married, did the women control the finances? I mean, did men, did they bring home their pay and give it to their wives?

AD: Some did and some didn't, it was like it is now. That goes on now, some men does and some men don't.

B: Okay. Did your husband, did he...did he bring his...his pay home to you or...

AD: Well, he was uh...he was...put it this way, he was a good provider for us, un-hun.

B: Un-hun. Okay. How did he get killed?

AD: Slate fell on him.

B: What year was that?

AD: '47. Thirtieth day of November, 1947 on Sunday morning.

B: How long had you all been married?

AD: When he got killed? Twenty-two years, one month, and uh...and twenty-two days. 'Cause he was, we married on the eighth day of October, 1925 and he was killed the thirtieth day of November, 1947.

B: What...did you get any um...compensation or anything?

AD: Yes, I got compensation. Un-hun. Yes. And the union give me a thousand dollars. Un-hun.

B: Okay. How long after that did you remarry?

AD: Oh, hit was a long time. Let's see, 1947, it was about eight years after that. Un-hun.

B: Why did you remarry?

AD: Like everybody else, I wanted to. (laughing) Well, and then my compensation run out, you see, they was a limit to that compensation they pay and it was a limit to that and uh...I got compensation and social security. I had two little kids. That boy was in here was little at that time. That come through, that's was my son come through here. Uh...I had two smaller kids and then I had uh...a boy in service. That man over there runs that store, Hawkeye's daddy, he was in service, he's in the Marines and then I've got two twin girls. One lives right there in that brick house and the other lives down there in that big two story house. Twin girls and uh...and my compensation, when these two boys got of age, my compensation and my social security both run out so, just put it that way, it was financial reasons. (laughing)

B: Okay.

AD: You can see that, can't you?

B: un-hun. Okay. Your second husband, was he a miner?

AD: Yes. Yes. But he was a mine foreman or a coal operator. Un-hun. He was union at heart. He liked the union. He said the union was the best thing ever happened to the coal miner but he wasn't a union mine. He was uh...hadn't never, I tell you , he was a coal operator or a mine foreman all the time. Never was just a laborin' man. He was a brother to this...Mrs. Nowlin's husband that lives up here.

B: Okay. How long were you all married?

AD: Me and him? We was married about eight years when he died.

B: Un-hun. Okay. Was he ill? Did...did, was he sick when he died?

AD: He died with cancer of the lungs.

B: Hum. What do you remember about the Great Depression?

AD; Oh, that's in old Hoover's time. Hoover was the president, Lord have mercy, they was nobody through here had anything. I'm tellin' you, hit was a terrible time. The Great Depression was a terrible time. That was before President Roosevelt was elected. He was president after Hoover was president. He was a Republican, and then he was president and I'm tellin' you if he didn't have this country in a terrible shape. Well, they sent a man around after Roosevelt was elected. They sent a man around to this part of the country to get...get up all the gold that they could and if you had gold pin, you could sell it. They paid you. Your price for that gold pin, the United States didn't have no gold. He had it all sent over seas. United States didn't have no gold and President Roosevelt was tryin' to get gold back and he sent a man around to buy. Any gold that anybody had that wanted to sell. (tape cuts off)

AD: If you ask me.

B: Un-hun. What um...what was it...what were the working conditions like? Did, how often did the men work?

AD: Well, they was workin', the coal miner's yeah. Workin' for nothin', you know, just whatever the company wanted to pay them and that wasn't very much. They couldn't make enough to make a livin', we just all had to what you'd say, survive. And uh...when old Hoover was president, lord have mercy. They's so many people starved back in them days. But me and my husband, we did alot of farmin' you know, raisin' stuff and cannin' and puttin' up stuff in the fall of the year for us to have to eat for our children. And they's a lot of people starved. Yes, they did. During in old Hoover's Depression.

B: Un-hun. When you say starved, did that mean they went hungry or did people actually die?

AD: Yes. They went hungry. They went hungry. Yeah. They went hungry. It's a lot of people went hungry. Yes, ma'am. They did.

B: A lot of people, my grandmother told stories about hobos comin' in on the trains?

AD: Yeah...

B: And beg for food. They'd go through the camp and beg for food. Did that happen?

AD: Begging for food, come in. Yeah. Yes, ma'am, That happened here too. Yeah, begging' for food. Nobody through here much had anything to give them. It was a terrible time, I'm tellin' you.

B: Did um...some people, I...I know my grandfather and my grandmother fought over her gettin' too much stuff at the company store because he said he like...he liked to draw his pay and not be in debt.

AD: Who was that did that?

B: My grandparents. We're you in...did you and your husband?

AD: No, me and my husband didn't exactly have any trouble over stuff like that but my...my uh..grandpa and grandma did. He was so tight, you know, he didn't want to get too much at the company store so he could draw more money but even with that, he couldn't draw much. Money was just about a thing of the past during Hoover's time. Well, money was just about the thing of the past. I tell you how bad it got now, and you will know by this, how bad it got. These uh...furniture stores in Williamson, you know, B & L, Sears and Roebuck and all those stores? They got to where they'd take scrip if you bought anything and...and you could make your payments with scrip if you could get enough scrip to make a payment. Now, you know how bad it got. They'd take scrip because the company did give out scrip at that time. You'd go to the office and get you a dollar and a dollar would be about the most you could get. But if you could get you an extra dollar, why uh...you could save it maybe and try to buy you a piece of furniture. And they...hit was so bad, that they would take scrip, now you know, that's gettin' pretty bad, ain't it, where company, uh..furniture company to take scrip, now that's the truth, it did, in old Hoover's time, yes, ma'am.

B: Un-hun. Um. That's um...some people have said different companies let um...people draw a dollar a day's worth of food during the Depression.

AD; If you had it in there and they'd get to writin'. And see, and they took about the house rent and your juice out on you. You're not making much to begin with. Not over two or three dollars and they'd take out your house rent and your electric and uh...of course, that was about all, and the doctor and the hospital, and uh...that wouldn't leave you very much, you know, and sometimes you could get a dollar. I've went several times right up here at this store. Several times to get my dollar and I couldn't get but fifty cents. But you know everything was cheap accordin' to. It had to be.

B: Did you all ever, say, go down to Matewan, were the company store prices higher than the...the. (Bell goes off) The question I was askin' was, were the company store prices, where you all had to get stuff. Was it higher than the stores in Matewan?

AD: Well, about on the average, un-hun. But you see, we couldn't spend scrip in these stores in Matewan and other stores. We had to spend it at a company store our scrip. They wouldn't take scrip.

B: Some people have done research and said that women liked going to the company store. Did you like going to the company store to get your things?

AD: Well, we had to. It was either like it or, hadn't much choice. Go and see if you can get you a dollar of scrip and get something to eat.

B: Okay. What um...would you tell me some of the um...the crops or whatever that you and your husband would grow to try to supplement...

AD: That we would grow? Well, we would grow beans, and green beans, and Arsh (Irish) potatoes, and tomatoes, cucumbers and and uh...corn. We'd grow corn and corn field beans and we'd grow beans and tomatoes and cucumbers and vegetables to eat, you know. Cucumbers and we'd eat beets, we'd pick them and put up stuff and in the fall of the year from our garden and that give us something to eat in the winter time, you know, well, a lot of people didn't do that and they just about didn't have nothing to eat and if they couldn't go for their dollar's scrip and couldn't get but fifty-cents, you imagine how they, you imaginary stuff too.

B: Did um...did you can?

AD: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I canned. I'd make jelly and jam and for the pickled beets and pickled cucumbers and canned beans and canned corn and, yes mam.

B: Did you have a pressure cooker back then?

AD: NO...no...no...no. No such thing as a pressure cooker when old Hoover's alive. When he was president, no ma'am. Nobody could have afforded one.

B: How did you all can things, then?

AD: Well, I just canned on my cook stove.

B: Un-hun. HOw long...did it take longer?

AD: Well, yes. You know it would. It's take longer but I was used to it. I didn't pay it any mind. I didn't care.

B: Okay. Did um...did anybody you know try to um...use, say home remedies, or anything like that instead of going to the doctor? Would people use teas and herbs?

AD: Well, you know, for sickness. Un-hun. Yeah. Yeah. We'd use, you know, when I was small and I was growin' up. Yes, my, we...we'd use home remedies, you know, take anything we could. We, us kids, you know, would have a real bad cold or something and they'd give us castor oil and you know, stuff like that, and pains, rub liniments on you and yes, we used a lot of home remedies. More so than doctorin'. Than a doctor, yes ma'am. We sure did.

B: Okay. What about some of the real old remedies? Have you ever heard of um...how did people treat the shingles? Do you remember?

AD: I don't know. I'm not acquainted with that. I don't know about the shingles.

B: Cause we've heard some...

AD: I don't remember of any of my family ever having the shingles.

B: Cause, we've heard one person say, well, I've had three people say that they used the blood of a black chicken and I was...

AD: Well, well, you hear everything. But I'm not acquainted with that disease. I don't remember any of my family a havin' that. Hun-un.

B: Okay. How about teas or...or.

AD: Yes, we'd make tea, yeah, oh yes, yeah, I remember my grandmother was the awfullest woman to make tea, ever was, you now, Yeah. We'd make tea, tea for the flu. Well, that was mostly, our doctor, when they had that awful bad flu that time, people depended more on tea than anything.

B: What kind of tea was it? Was it just...

AD: Well, different kinds of tea. Uh...I know one kind. I can't remember the name, I know it, I know it but I just, it just, I just can't think of it right off, and another kind...

B: Sassafras?

AD: Yeah. And and...catnip and sassafras and stuff like that, yes ma'am.

B: Okay. Okay. Okay. You...you say you had sons in the service. Was this during World War II?

AD: I had one in World War II. This one over here that works in this store.

B: Where did he serve?

AD: He was in the Marines. Un-hun. And one place I remember of uh...uh...he can tell you more about that. June....it was in North Carolina, one place I remember, Lak...lak...lak... (Le-jeune) well, I can't speak, anyway, he was in the marines. He was in there when his daddy got killed. He was only grown son I had. This one come in here and the one of them lives at Red Jacket, they was small children when their daddy got killed. This one ten years old and the other one was five.

B: What do you um...what do you think happened to um...the union after the 1984 strike?

AD: After the '84, oh, what did I think happened to the union? Well, I really don't know what happened. Well they, you know, they are some mines signed the contract and others didn't. Well, Massey, they said, you know, uh...being told that these signed the contract but not the way that Rich Trumka wanted it all together, you know. I think he signed it at the, he didn't have to hire these men that done a lot of fightin' you know what I mean, he didn't have to hire them back , wherein had it been the contract they was givin' him, was fightin' for, he'd still have to hire them back, but they's some he didn't have to hire back, but he had to give them fifteen hundred dollars a month until they found a job somewhere else. He had to do that.

B: What um...what do you think would happen to coal miners if the union was crushed?

AD: Well, I think it'd go back to what is used to be. They'd be a workin' for nothin' and they'd have to work uh...say we got three shifts now, they'd put it back in one and you'd just get one...one pay. One pay check for the whole three. You'd go back to what it used to be is the way I think it is, yes. More than likely because the ones that's uh...not got a contract, uh...they're a payin' pretty good wages, but they know they have to, because as long as they've got a union, they have to or they, the men won't work for them you see. and uh...They, but if they didn't have no union at all, hit would go down. Yes, hit's go right back to what it used to be and that was tough, I'm tellin' you.

B: I um...I talked to one lady who said her father, when he worked, he would get assigned a certain tonnage of coal a day and if he couldn't get it in a normal shift, he'd have to work straight through.

AD: Why, sure.

B: And sometimes spend two days...

AD: And that was for the same wages.

B: Okay.

AD: Un-hum. Now, they load coal by hand before they got this union. Loaded with a shovel. And my husband loaded coal, was a loading coal and it was before they got the union and he had to load ten of these big cars up here and I don't know just how many tons they hold, all the one holds but three dollars was what he'd have to load ten of them to get three dollars. THat was the wages and they didn't have no such a thing as three shifts. You worked a shift 'til you got your job done regardless of how long it took you. And no over time pay. It was the same wages.

B: How did they treat, say, as a man got older, how did they treat him before the union?

AD: He wudn't treated no different than the young man. And he worked as long as he was able to work and when he'd quit, he didn't have nothing to retire on. 'til Roosevelt come in here, president, he didn't come in here, Roosevelt was elected our president and uh...he was the one set this social security up. A man pay into it while he was young, and then he gets old, he has a pension to rely on.

B: How did, after a man...

AD: Before that, they was nobody had no pensions.

B: Did uh...did an older, did he worked until he died or, did, when he...

AD: Who's that?

B: An older, say an older man.

AD: Work as long as he was able. Then naturally, they'd have to, I know, my grandpa, he worked as long as he was able and then, you know, we might say, well wherever they's a will, there's a way. They'd get something to eat, their children would help them you know, they was no pensions for them to draw, like there is now. Social security and black lung. I get social security and black lung. Wudn't no such thing as that then and uh...they would uh...their children would help them or maybe they have a little money saved, anyway, they'd manage to keep them, you know. Keep from starvin'. But they wasn't no nothin' to draw 'til Roosevelt got that social security. And in later years, they got black lung, you know, paid them so much as that, you know, when you get, disabled, if you got black lung, your lungs is messed up you know, with coal dust. You can draw that black lung. NOw, there gettin' hard on tryin' to pay you for that. (laughing)

B: I know um...what's your first memory of Matewan? What do you remember?

AD: It was the closest town up there at Delorme where we lived and Freeburn. THat was the closest town, Matewan was the closest town and back then, they was trains on the road, run every two hours and uh...you could uh...ride and get the train and ride to Matewan from Delorme for fifteen cents. and uh...You could go down there and stay...trade, do what you was gonna, get what you was goin' after in Matewan, back on the next train, the next two hours, they was one a comin' up. We don't have no trains now. But then, they was no cars and buses. Not everybody didn't have a car like they do now and we had trains to ride in and that was better for me for I like to ride a train every two hours, but across this bridge that warshed out, ride over there and catch a train a goin' from Matewan. Well, you'd get there in two or three minutes and then catch the next one and comin' in two hours, they'd be one a comin' back up, get off right over there and walk across the bridge here at home. I thought it was very nice when we had trains. Now, of course, everybody's got cars and they don't need trains.

B: WHat are some of the stores you remember goin' to down in Matewan?

AD: In Matewan? Well, it was the same stores that's done there now. They's Hopes and uh...um...different...different...different stores. The same ones is down there, now. Old stores, you know, they, every since I can remember, the same stores, they've still got. Of course, they've got beer gardens (bars) now, they didn't use to have. (laughing)

B: Um...did you ever go to the theater down there?

AD: Yes, ma'am.

B: What do you remember about the theater?

AD: Well, I do, me and my husband, me and my first husband, we'd go to the theater yes, ma'am. My children, as they growed up, they'd go ever Friday night. Un-hun. Or every Saturday night. They went all the time, my children did. They's walkin' though. It's not too far from here to Matewan and uh...now, me and him, we'd go to the theater yeah.

B: Do you remember any of the old silent movies?

AD: Well, I remember when they first uh... me and my husband was first married, was when they first put this talkin' movie out. You hear them a talkin', used to, you could see the pictures but you couldn't hear them talkin' then they'd put a writin' in there and tell you what was said. Well, then they, they got a talkin, you know, what they got now, well, I remember when they got that. And me and him went that first night they got it in Matewan. We hadn't been married very long, a few days, and we was pleased, you know, cause we was follerin' (unintelligible) to the movie and then when they got to talkin', why that was somethin', that's was different, so we went, we was tickled to get to go that first night, and get to hear them talk.

B: What did people do when...when...when it started and people were talkin'. Were people excited in the theater?

AD: Well, they could hear it yeah. We'd all set and listen, you know. Pleased to get to hear what they said, you know, what was goin' on.

B: We um...had one man tell us that before the theater that was on the main street area, that there was one that didn't have a roof on it over towards the river bank. Did you remember that?

AD: At Matewan? A theater didn't have a roof. No, ma'am. I don't. They could've had and I wouldn't probably have known about it, but I don't remember nothin' about it, hun-un.

B: Okay. What do you remember, do you remember anything about people that worked at the bank, say Dan Chambers?

AD: Yeah. Dan Chambers, well, when I was first married, in 1925, Dan chambers was president of Matewan BAnk. UN-hun.

B: We've heard that when the...they declared the bank holiday, that he refused to close the bank. THat you could, you could still..

AD: Well, he might have done it. I don't know. He might have done it. Well, why would he refused to go to the bank on bank holidays? He wudn't a gettin' nothin' a keepin' it open.

B: That's true.

AD: I don't know, honey, about that part.

B: Okay. What about some other members of the Chambers family. We've heard that other members of the Chambers family were really pro-union.

AD: For the union?

B: Un-hun.

AD: I don't know. If they were, I don't know.

B: Brogg CHamber's or...

AD: Brogg Chamber's? Well, I really don't know if they was or not. They all lived in Matewan. But, I...I don't...I don't really know if they was or not.

B: Un-hun. Did um...did your father or your husband know any of the men that were involved in the Matewan shootout?

AD: Was they involved in it? No.

B: Did they...did they know any men that were?

AD: Well, yes. THey, my husband didn't but uh...my, my grandfather, yeah, he knowed, well, he knew Sid Hatfield, and that Testerman and uh...and then you see, we knew that Gooslin that was killed up here. And they was several men that we knowed that I just can't think of their names right off, that we know was killed , yes.

B: How many people would you...would you say, if you had to guess, even though you were real young, how many people would you say died during that 1921 strike?

AD: Honey, I don't know. I just couldn't make a guess there because I wouldn't have the least idea. I hear a talkin' that there was a lot of them.

B: Okay. Well, I can't think of any other questions. Can you think of anything else that you'd like to talk about or you'd like to...

AD: Uh, no. Honey I don't reckon. I've, we've probably covered it all I guess. I don't know.

B: Well, thank you for talkin' to me today.

AD: But now, honey I tell, you, I've went through some awful hard times in my life over, and hit not being my...my parents' fault, nor my husband's fault, it was conditions of what time that we had to live. Like, we, I lived through the Depression, I lived through that and I lived before we ever got a union, and uh...I know all about hard times.

B: How do you think that affected you?

AD: Well, I don't think it affected me in any way because when I was a livin' through it, that was all I knowed, you know. and It didn't affect me no way, honey. If I thought too much about, it would just be like everybody else, pleased when I could do better.

B: Did um...I know, my grandmother used to say that where they were livin' people almost didn't know there was a depression because they weren't that much worse off because they, livin' in a coal camp, things couldn't have gotten much worse, anyway. Did people think that around here?

AD: Well, yeah. They couldn't have got no worse. SHe was right there. They couldn't...they couldn't have got no worse. Because, hit was so bad that my, my oh...twins, them twins, my two girls is twins, they live up there on the hill now, and uh...they uh...I tell you how bad it was in the Depression now. They would be people go a bummin' and they'd walk uh, to get to Williamson the best way they could a bummin' down there to these people like uh...bankers and so on that had more. As a matter of fact, they's nobody had too much, I can tell you they wasn't, so the thing is, the big shots didn't have too much. And with these, they was a lot of people around this area would get to Williamson and bum and they'd bring back coats for children and dresses and shoes and things and I have bought my two little twins a coat a piece from where they had bummed and give them ten or fifteen cents in scrip. Now hit was that...hit was that bad and that was their first year of school. Hit was that bad, you know now that's gettin' pretty bad, now ain't it.

B: That's true. I can't imagine that...

AD: That was in old Hoover's Depression. That's why everybody will never forget that. Roosevelt, President Roosevelt, he'll never be forgotten because how he did pull...how he did pull this county out of depression. He'd have done gotten as far as he could get. Well, they got to, they was a sendin' in seed for us to plant, we couldn't buy seed, such as potatoes, we couldn't buy seeds to plant but when they'd bring them, they'd be already cut and covered with somethin' to make sure that you couldn't fry them and eat, you had to plant them. It was just as low as hit could get. I'm tellin' you, it couldn't have got in no worse shape, definitely not. And when President Roosevelt was elected, he really pulled this country out of...out of depression.

B: How did you know that things were gettin' better? What was the first thing that, do you remember...

AD: Well, the...the first thing, the miners got a raise from two dollars and a half a day to five dollars.

B: That was a big raise.

AD: Yes, that was a big raise, yes ma'am, when they got a union, yes ma'am, from two dollars and a half a day to five dollars. Yes, ma'am, and you know the more you...you like, well, like right now, the more money you get over there, the better off you are and the better pleased you are. THat's nature.

B: That's right. THat's true.

AD: We was all pleased to death that our husbands could make more money and our daddys and so forth could make some money 'til we could have a little more. Scrapin' around and pinchin' and scrapin' and tryin' to survive is not funny, and I went through all of it. (tape cuts off)

B: I guess, another question that I have is, if you don't mind me askin', how did you find out about your husbands death when he died? How did you find out?

AD: Well, a slate fell on him and my son-in-law was a workin' with him. What..what happened he uh...a slate fell on him and my son-in-law, Willard Cook was a workin' by his side when the slate fell on him, well, he stayed to help get the slate off of him, then he run to the house to tell us and he didn't just come in and tell us that he was killed right now, he brought it to us kindly slow, he slate had fell on him and hurt him and they was a callin' the ambulance but he was dead. Take a (unintelligible) to take her, but he was dead.

B: Were there ever any big accidents, my...my mother says she can remember the...the signal goin' off whenever there was an accident where her father worked at...

AD: In the coal mines? Wheres the place your grandmother lived at?

B: Over in...over in McDowell, County. It was a...

AD: No, honey, I don't think that happened here. They just somebody come and tell you when they'd be an accident. Un-hun. Yeah, they'd come and tell you when they'd be an accident.

B: Well, thank you for talkin' to me today.

AD: Honey, you're more than welcome. (tape cuts off)

Matewan Oral History Project Collection