Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Archie Bland Interview

Becky Bailey: This Becky Bailey from the Matewan Development Center, I'm at the Tug Valley Country Club (restaurant - lots of noise) and I'm going to interviewing Mr. Archie Bland, for the record Mr. Bland would you tell me when and where you were born?

Mr. Archie Bland: I was born in Louisville, Kentucky. August the twelfth, nineteen and six.

B: What were your parents names?

AB: My mother, Beatrice Bland, and Ned Bland...excuse me...

B: Okay, where they from Louisville, originally?

AB: Yes...uh....my mother was from Greenville, Kentucky. My father was from Sacraomento...

B: How many children did they have?

AB: three, two boys and one girl.

B: Okay...where you the oldest?

AB: I was the oldest boy.

B: Okay, did both of your parents work?

AB: No, my mother, mother was a housekeeper.

B: Okay. What did your father do for a living?

AB: Founderies and construction work.

B: Did he work with other blacks or did he work for whites?

AB: Mixed.

B: Okay...did he ever tell you, did he get paid the same as the white people that he worked with or did he get paid less?

AB: Well, it uh...that uh...your parents didn't discuss anything like that to the children in my time...that was way back in the...there was so much they would let a child know...of course (unintelligible)

B: Do you remember where you lived, what kind of neighborhood did you live in?

AB: I lived in uh...just, just a kind neighborhood...in the heart of the city I would say. Kenton Broadway, it was one of the leading streets.

B: Okay, was it house or apartment buildings?

AB: It was houses.

B: Okay, do you know, would you know who helped your mother deliver you and your brother and your sister?

AB: No, I do not...so, I don't know much about that...

B: When did you go to school, when you were young?

AB: I went to school in Louisville, until I was nine years old. Then that's when I moved to Louisville to Sacromento Kentucky.

B: Uh-huh.....why did you all move?

AB: Well, he lost his job and so for better, you know...he came up to McCarr Kentucky...mines, coal mines.

B: Uh-huh...What do you remember about him working in the coal mines because that was back in the early day?

AB: Yeah, that was in 1919, and '20...he was a (unintelligible) and they uh...at that time why you uh...your wages were very cheap, so like three dollars, a cart...and that's uh...

B: Did he work?

AB: he was hand loading, you know, machinery then.

B: Were there other blacks that were employed were he worked?

AB: Oh, yeah, with Ford Motor, Pond Creek, (unintelligible) lay and look at Pond Creek...(unintelligible) as you know...

B: Okay, when did you, did you get to finish high school or did you?

AB: no he was, I lost my father in mines in Blackberry...

B: Uh-huh...what happen to him?

AB: Rock fall...

B: WHat year was that?

AB: that was nineteen and uh...twenty...

B: Okay, had you, this about that time when your father would of went to work was when they were importing a lot of black to work as scabs?

AB: They was, bringing them, on transportation they called it, and different locations to uh...country I guess.

B: Did your family come with him there?

AB: No, he and my brother and myself.

B: Okay...So when you, you went to work in the mines too, then?

AB: I did, after, well I was ten...

B: What did you do until his death.

AB: Well I went to school, until his death. I went to school and was...taken care of the house, I was (?) over it, when the women in the house...he and my brother and I.

B: Why did you all leave your mother and your sister behind?

AB: Well that uh...my family, I won't know the detail... he taken us and came here, left my mother and daughter and sister, in Louisville...as far as I know about that...

B: Okay, I just thought maybe it was safety because of?

AB: No, it uh...I don't never did find out details on that.

B: So did, did you and your brother and mother and your sister reunite or?

AB: Never have since that day.

B: Uh...Okay, alright, were there any striking miners, did you ever see any, did you all ever accused of being scabs?

AB: No, we wasn't during the time, that uh...started in uh...around, in '21, that was after my father was killed and I moved down in Williamson then...and at uh...what you call, after all that shooting started and we moved down here, I did, my brother and I.

B: Okay...what was Williamson like when you first...?

AB: Williamson was a nice town it was uh...very industrious and active and lot of people was here, railroad was uh..good and mines was good, railroad was the leading industry...at that time, mines taking over night and left.

B: Okay, what did you do for work when you first came to Williamson

AB: to WIlliamson? The first thing, the job I got was working on a Insurance company office, janitor, sales, and tenant. And there from there on, I went to Cinderella Cafeteria as a cook,

B: Uh-huh...had you learned to cook when your father and brother were on...?

AB: I was taught, I was taught to cook...

B: What was it like uh...back then for blacks in Williamson, was the black and white community separate or...

AB: Yeah, they were, it was segregated to a certain extent during that time, but not bad, but uh...nothing like it is now naturally...I didn't really see any different, not to much difference,...as far a treatment was concern...I got along with everybody myself.

B: I mean uh... you see movies about uh...black and white relationships back in the twenties and you see whites calling blacks boy, and stuff like that and stuff like..and some of the jobs you would of worked, did you ever run across that kind of treatment?

AB: You might not uh...deliberately, you might of heard it mention one of few times but not too consistent...

B: Okay.

AB: Not me at least, I just speak for myself...

B: Uh-huh...okay, what about the Klu Klux Klan, did you ever hear anything about in this area?

AB: they were here during, during the '20's, they were active here in Williamson...On a light scale, nothing major...well, it didn't last to long, but they never bothered anybody the just was a organization...Occasionally they would parade up and down...

B: Uh-huh...jumping back to your parents for a minute, do you know when they were born, do you remember that?

AB: Mmm...I sure don't...can't pinpoint that...

B: Okay, did your parents have any uh...say grandparents did they ever talk about the slavery days or after the Civil War?

AB: No, I haven't...

B: did you ever hear any stories about that...

AB: My father never did, as I recall sit and talk much about any thing like the grand folks like we do...don't seem like they were, I don't know there just close to some, just different... You know, you sit down and talk with your wife about every thing that it's in the past and and all that, but then, they didn't especially in front of children...Now they may have, which we know they did...between the cells, they didn't come before us... to young to know these things, got over there and sit down.. that was way back, so...so we didn't have a chance, now children sits right under their parents and listens to everything that comes out their mouth...We weren't allowed to do that.. 'cause we didn't want to get knocked under the table. (laughing)....

B: Okay, uh...did you know any of your grandparents at all?

AB: No, I didn't.

B: Okay, well, what did you do in your free time, back in the '20's over in Williamson?

AB: Nothing, I worked all the time, I never get to socialize much...played a little ball, baseball, but other than that uh...I worked full time.

B: Okay. Was there a baseball team that you played with or was there just a...?

AB: there was a baseball team...

B: Okay, what was it's name?

AB: Williamson Black Soxs.

B: Who did you all play?

AB: We played Logan, Huntington, and anybody that came along want uh...play...

B: Did you ever play against anybody that went on and became famous?

AB: No, not, not in our group, I haven't...

B: Okay.

AB: But it was quite a lapse of time, when I was playing up until the time they started getting a chance to join organize sports...

B: Uh-huh...right, so you played probably on a black team and against other black teams...

AB: yes, uh-huh...

B: during the black team years

AB: yeah, that's right...

B: Uh...I just the reason, I asked that question about your recreation time, because, I talked to a man, from Bluefield he said that uh...people like uh...Bessie Smith and Mamie Smith use to come through and play, at you know different white clubs and I was wondering if you ever heard about any of the big blues singers coming through Williamson?

AB: No, the leading uh...I think uh...and team been in Williamson that I recall, but a bands, there's been several bands here in Williamson, I remember seeing...

B: Do you remember any of the bands' names?

AB: Yes, I know there was Blanch Calloway, Louis Armstrong, (unintelligible) big time band.

B: Did you go see Louie Armstrong?

AB: Yeah, I went to all the things, I didn't miss a game...

B: Uh-huh...what were they like?

AB: they were great...they lived up to their name...

B: Uh-huh...What do you remember about seeing him play?

AB: You mean with music? That' when they was swinging music, was uh...we was always (unintelligible)

B: Okay, okay, what did you do uh...for a living after you lost your janitor job?

AB: I went to, as I say I was cooking at Cinderella Cafeteria...and then I after that I was uh...I had to come to the Mountaineer hotel, over there...I stayed down there, thirty some years, thirty seven years..,.

B: Uh-huh...I take it you done jobs like bell hop and...?

AB: Yeah, bell hop and waiter, party waiter, dining room anything in the food department, beside of bellhoping...

B: Uh-huh...was that uh...a white hotel?

AB: Yes, it was a leading hotel in the state... Mountaineer Hotel, finally up there because the closed the food established(?)...

B: Uh-huh...Where did you go from there?

AB: I uh...worked for dry cleaner for a while, worked for the dry cleaners, and then...I came up here extra before I started working regular that was off and on, since the flood...in '77, I started filling in '76 then I was a regular...

B: Uh-huh...When did you work on the railroad?

AB: I worked on the railroad in '25, six, seven, I think...

B: What did you do?

AB: switchmen, little over at the brown house, switching engines and cars, and...

B: So this was down Williamson? Well I talked to uh... a white man that worked in this area, he said down at the roundhouse down in Williamson....was the only place they would work blacks, now is that true?

AB: What do you mean only the switch men? No, they'd work them on the, as on the section and all that was all over...

B: Uh-huh...

AB: But uh...around in the yard and one the roads...(tape cuts off) but uh...like they say they worked around the shop...

B: Uh-huh...okay, do you remember what kind of pay you received for work at the railroad?

AB: Let's see now what is it they paid uh...three something, three seventy five, I believe it was, three, three something, I not quite sure...

B: Okay...

AB: Eight hours

B: OKay, uh...just to back track a little what do your remember about World War I?

AB: Mm....not to much, my father was drafted to go but he never did go...at that time we was coming up here from Louisville, Kentucky...he was, that was back in nineteen and nineteen, eight nineteen eighteen...He was supposed to have gone in 1918...

B: Huh...

AB: But he didn't go.

B: Did any of you all get sick during the flue [sic] epidemic?

AB: No, we weren't affected...

B: Do you remember that?

AB: Yeah, I can remember

B: What do you remember about it?

AB: there was a lot sickness and deaths, but none in Kentucky I recall...but we were fortunate (unintelligible) to many of them...

B: Do you remember anything about how people tried treat it?

AB: Well, home treatment, they mostly the would use different kinds of herbs and rub them, and you know how the old folks do and Salves, and all that stuff...

B: What stands out in your mind about the Great Depression, did you have work?

AB: I've always as I said I've always worked. There, really don't know too much about the Great Depression, 'cause it didn't affect me...I was uh... I always have, things that never really be to really tell, in other words, I have jobs, and uh...didn't want for nothing to much, so it didn't affect me to much...

B: Okay....

AB: so I couldn't say, I know it did other people.

B: Okay, did you ever get married?

AB: Yes, I got married in uh...April of uh...(interview interrupted)

B: you got married in April or...

AB: I got married in April 1942. Right after Japan, try, to...I mean bombed Pearl Harbor. or '41.

B: How did you met your wife?

AB: She was uh...teaching, I just met her (at a) dance, dance down at WIlliamson...

B: Did she teach at Liberty High School?

AB: Yes, she did, and Red Jacket.

B: Some people have been uh... writing about during segregation alot of black teachers were lighter skined, or that they preferred lighter skined blacks, for school teachers, was your wife lighter skin?

AB: Yeah, she my color, same light...

B: UH-huh...

AB: no I don't think it would raise to that.

B: Okay, how, how would of (have) she got qualified to be a teacher, do you know, did she go to college?

AB: Yeah, she went to college, she went to Western State... (Unintelligible, name of town)...

B: OKay, how long were you all married, are you still married?

AB: NO, she's passed, oh uh...we were married forty-four, forty-seven years.

B: How old was she when you all married, do you know?

AB: Now, I was four years than she was, let's see maybe let's see, I went in service I was, I was thirty-four...thirty-three, thirty-four...

B: Okay, she was...

AB: She was around about thirty years old I say when we were married somewhere along there...

B: How long did you all date before you got married?

AB: Oh, about six or eight months...'course we rushing with it because I was going over seas, when we married around...

B: So you went in the service...

AB: Oh-yeah...

B: during...

AB: I was in service for thirty-four years.

B: Where did you serve?

AB: In Europe, Netherlands, Africa, France.

B: What unit did you serve with?

AB: UH...three hundred and thirty-six, thirty-one, a quarter master trucking corps?

B: WHat stands out in your mind about those years?

AB: Well, it's uh...in my mind, stand out mostly was uh...a great adventure for me to know that I was doing something worth while and uh... the cause for the country, and I didn't regret it at all in the time I was in there, and I was, I was promoted, I came out as a Staff Sergeant, I was promoted two times straight and uh...I really would of (have) reenlisted if I hadn't been married...I thought I better come on back.

B: Did blacks have much problems in the Armed Services back then?

AB: Not that I remember, I've seen none that I have ran across.

B: Okay...But you all had White Officers probably?

AB: Yes. And I had some good ones too...

B: How did they treat you?

AB: Fine, I was the number one, I can speak for myself, 'course I didn't treat all the boys nice.

B: Did you and your wife have any children? How many children did you...?

AB: Two girls.

B: Are they still living?

AB: Uh-hun, they have a big family.

B: We were talking a little off tape about uh...some of the questions, that I have about desegregation when did you first catch notice of there being a Civil Rights movement, do you remember?

AB: Civil Right movement? I just started paying much attention to it then, until uh...Martin Luther King, started it...I didn't pay it much attention, until then. Didn't think much about it.

B: What did you think about that?

AB: Well, it's a good thing for the nation I'd say, and uh...I didn't, it's something that can be, it can be worked out all right, accomplished if people were to let it...If they all thought like I did....well, (unintelligible)....see some it's going to be different ideas.

B: Was there much opposition in the white community, that...that you saw to desegregation

AB: No, not here, not in Williamson. I haven't seen any, and I said that I haven't traveled around too much, I've been working all the time, you know. Course you read alot and hear a lot, but uh...been around I haven't.

B: UH-huh, okay, how were the blacks treated politically in Williamson, through the years...(Tape cuts off)

B: When did blacks start voting?

AB: Well now, they started, as far as I know, they been voting in Williamson, ever since, ever since I've been voting, and I started well, when it was in the '30's.

B: Okay, did you ever come to Matewan, much?

AB: Oh yes, I've been to Matewan several times.

B: What's your first...

AB: (unintelligible)

B: I'm sorry go ahead.

AB: That's alright.

B: What's your first memory of Matewan?

AB: Well, I like Matewan even at the time it's, it's alright, I use to come up there with uh...seen where it's at, they tore down now, run by, (unintelligible).

B: Was it the Curtis Club?

AB: No, it was, as you go under the underpass it was on the right had side, it's tore down now, it's been a long time ago.

B: Is that where John and Mary Brown, had...it was a club?

AB: Yeah, it was a club...

B: John and Mary Brown had a club there.

AB: Yeah...

B: Was it the Dewdrop Inn?

AB: Yes, Dewdrop.

B: What do you remember about that place?

AB: Well, I've stop by there, and several times, went to and fro...But you know I've made one in uh...money gage, but uh...my wife knew a lot of people there because she taught them at Matewan, I mean at Red Jacket. And I meet a lot of people by that by traveling through there, and I found it to be, all those fine people for one thing. And too there, I made a lot of friends.

B: What did you think, do you remember John and Mary Brown?

AB: Not uh...no more than just meeting them, you know casually, I didn't know them to well..I wudn't around them to know them to well...There's only to families, I knew real well, and Crockets and uh...Martin.

B: What do you remember about Andrew Crockett?

AB: Ah...he was, Andrew Crockett is, this is (unintelligible) he was...(tape cuts off)...

B: He and uh...before his death last summer, he talked with a guy I worked with about baseball a awful lot, did you all ever play against each other or...?

AB: No, we played uh...the team he was uh...played with... like that...teams up that way...White sox would play them, course they never could beat us...Williamson you know.

B: Did you all ever play against any white teams or just black teams?

AB: Just black teams, they never did uh...make that happen, I guess it would of been alright, they tried to talk it up several times, but it they never got around to doing it.

B: Do you think you all were to good, do you think you would of probably beat them?

AB: I'm pretty sure. (they laugh) (unintelligible)

B: Okay, you uh...girls would of been school age, when the schools were desecrated?

AB: Yes...

B: HOw did you feel about sending them, did they go off to white schools?

AB: Well, uh...they wouldn't know, no they went to Liberty over to Williamson High...

B: Okay...

AB: Just before they graduated. And I think they graduated from Williamson High...

B: Okay.

AB: Both of them did.

B: Okay. Was your wife from this area?

AB: Yes, she's from Birmingham, Alabama is here home, she and mother and all was from Birmingham that's when...

B: Uh-huh...What was your wife's name?

AB: Ruby, Ruby Bland, she was Lanche(?) before...

B: Okay, so had she been marry before when you all...?

AB: No, no never been married.

B: OKay.

AB: Our first and our, both of our first.

B: Okay, let's see, you say, did you come to this area in 1920, 1921?

AB: I come to Williamson in 1921 to live.

B: Had all of the uh...Matewan Massacre Trial and stuff did that all happen before you came?

AB: That was all going one...and it ended up about that time.

B: What do you remember about that?

AB: Well, it was tragic and it had soldiers and all those, and had camps all around the, all full in the Williamson streets where they camped and uh...that's when that strike was going on, and Baldwin Felts men, all that was here and detectives all, Martial Law just about saw to certain extent, certain places, but you could go and come to Williamson without any trouble, but uh...there wasn't nothing to strict.

B: Okay, when the men started talking about unionizing around here, were the blacks allowed to join the union or was the blacks allowed to join ever?

AB: I think so, I wasn't, I was...getting (unintelligible) I was in Hotel business then. And I'm quit sure they had their say and was allowed to straighten it.

B: Okay, if you had to pick a favorite job, which one of the jobs that you held in your life was your favorite?

AB: Service, what I'm doing now. I like to be around people, I've met so many and I liked uh...

B: Interesting people or ?

AB: Interesting, lots of interesting, and all kinds of people, I like uh...

B: Is there anybody that stands out in your mind, you wouldn't have to name them by name necessarily but, say any interesting characters from Matewan or uh...

AB: Just Matewan?

B: Or, or Williamson, anywhere.

AB: Oh Lord yeah, all of them in Williamson and Matewan, but uh...just like that, the Allara's are big friends of mine, and they from Matewan, and the Hope's, I know all of them...

B: Uh-huh...

AB: In fact, I knew just about everybody in Matewan I guess. And WIlliamson the same way...I know everybody in Williamson, I'm sure from any size on up...

B: Uh-huh...You said something about, before we went on tape, about the, standing of the black doctors in the black community in Williamson, what did a black doctor mean to a community, back then?

AB: Well, uh...the uh...there's a whole, the black race as a whole looked up to doctor's as they leaders...and teachers, they looked to them to uh...lead them when needed...and uh...anything benefits, to help them see if they got their (unintelligible) I guess I use to say...More or less it looked uh...to anything that uh...they you know, any benefits oh, I say.

B: Was that because the doctors would most likely be the most educated?

AB: Well, uh... I wouldn't go as far as to say that exactly, 'cause we had some quite a few educators, people here in blacks...It wasn't and uh...

B: Do you remember any of them?

AB: but they uh...naturally you got to have leaders you see... to depend on you know, have confidence in you...and you always, you'll find in the long, you always look at your teachers and your doctors and your professors...your professors and principals as your leaders...that's the reason they got the recognition... But it's been quite human, educator black folks in Williamson it wasn't professional...didn't hold in professional jobs, they worked at banks and things like that you know, insurance, companies...your spokesman you will always find as a kid to go to uh...to bat for you, I could never go to front in case if anything come over would be the doctors and your...teachers and professors.

B: Okay. We've heard from people before that, before desegregation say in Matewan in this area would go to Williamson for a lot of their business did that change after desegregation, after integration or did blacks still, I mean did the blacks stay in Matewan and WIlliamson still have a close tie?

AB: They still have a close tie, oh yeah, they still have close tie in Matewan and Williamson, but uh...I think Matewan has opened up so much, they have uh...the things that blacks use to come WIlliamson for being like, they don't have to do it now, I think they can get that, you know without coming to Williamson. Such as uh...you got lawyers up there in Matewan, you got banks up there and they can get the same service you can get in Williamson...and so they uh...business uh...you just don't have to depend on one location anymore. You can get what you want.

B: Uh-huh...okay, well did, did you ever go to the movies, years ago?

AB: All the time.

B: Did they ever play, movies, that say featured black actor like Paul Robeson or Lena Horne do you remember seeing them?

AB: Yeah.

B: What do you remember about Paul Robeson?

AB: He was a great uh...great singer, great performer, one of the number one blacks, up until this day, so is Lena Horne... and uh...there's been number, that I followed and uh...it was great...

B: Uh-huh... Do you remember their names, any of them?

AB: Well uh...all of the big timers, why I just couldn't name them off. Let's see, I just can't remember names to well, right now.

B: Okay, uh...lets see, (talking in background).

AB: Uh...

B: Well, while you are thinking let me ask you a question, did you watch the movie Matewan, did you go to see that?

AB: No, I didn't, I wanted to see that, I didn't get a chance to see that.

B: I was wondering there uh...James Earl Jones played a character called Few Clothes in that and we heard people say that, he was a historical figure, Few Clothes was this guy, and that he actually came through this area, did you every hear anything?

AB: I remember Few Clothes.

B: You do?

AB: I remember him but uh...I know I didn't see him, or met him, but I...I heard of him, yes.

B: Do you remember anything about what you heard?

AB: No, more than uh...let me see did he, seem like he came to Williamson is where, during, during the time, Few CLothes, I heard the name but I wasn't fortunate enough to be around, where he came to, seem like he passed through Williamson on Third Avenue, on Sunday...Few Clothes that name is very familiar...

B: Okay.

AB: Yeah it is true, there was a fellow named Few Clothes.

B: Uh-huh, okay, I notice that you are wearing a Mason ring, is that correct, is that a Mason's ring?

AB: Yes, yes.

B: Was there uh...uh...black Masonic Lodge or do you belong to or is it a integrated Masonic Lodge?

AB: No, this, this is black...In Williamson.

B: When did you join?

AB: In nineteen and forty-four.

B: Why did you join, what draws a man to the Mason's?

AB: Well now, its uh...the leading organization of the world...and it's recognized around the world, all over the world.

B: What's your purpose, is it a volunteer organization, do you do works in the community?

AB: Yeah, we do works all over the country, help need, Mason's uh...is a branch uh...any Kindergarten Branch called for the Shrine, the shriners...

B: Okay.

AB: other words, shriners the daddy...(of the) Mason. And so you know what the Shriners do, they uh...makes you in command and looking after the sick and uh...implants(?) and all...It's a great organization to be in, it's uh...membership is uh...not because I'm in it, the outstanding citizens in the community... you probably find in everybody that belong to Mason's.

B: Are your recruited, or do you, do you got out and ask someone that is already in Mason, whether or not you can join, how do you get in?

AB: You would have to be helping a little someone and they would recommend you carry your name into the lodge, a member, and they have to vote on you, a year maybe and scrutinized and checked out.

B: Okay.

AB: Your reputation would have to be so...

B: Uh-huh...did the, does the black Masonic Lodge does it have, or does it ever have much to do, say with the white?

AB: Oh yes, they, they encourage each other and they, if anything comes up why, be right there for each other...

B: Uh-huh....okay, Well uh...Third Avenue, I've heard Third Avenue mentioned, uh...about Williamson what's on Third AVenue or what was on Third AVenue?

AB: Well, Third Avenue that is (unintelligible) what you might call the street where all the good time is met in other words you know...nightlife...if you want to find some uh...thought of having a good time, you go to Third Avenue...at times it was a little violent, and times it wasn't, it was good people operated down there and there was bad people mixed group you know. They was known throughout the country, when you here about Third Avenue in Detroit and New York and everywhere else.

B: Really how do you know that, that they?

AB: They say it's true, I've been to city's and uh...you uh..."I heard you was from Williamson, West Virginia," "Yes," "you know where that THird AVenue is, yes, you know such and such, he said," "yes, I been several times." (laughing) Yeah everybody knows Third Avenue in Williamson, course now today it's gone down, I mean it's moved out of the world, cleaned up...but it was loaded...

B: UH-huh...was it full of clubs or bands that played there or?

AB: It was the...bands that played there was Ragtime Bands, played at the memorial building down on the courthouse, that's where all the big bands played at...No, there was just everyone would met there for good times and fighting and all those different things, break out down in (unintelligible) something else.

B: Have you liked music most of your life?

AB: All my life, I love music.

B: What kind of music do you like?

AB: Anything. Sentimental things, or music, Jazz I like it all...

B: Uh-huh...Who are some of your favorite Jazz artists?

AB: Well, I said Louis Armstrong was my leader...I love his type of music, more than any, I don't care too much about this music we got now, this rock...there is nothing to it, it's really not meaningful, it's just a beat...one or two beats, it's not meaningful.

B: Did you ever listen to uh...where they making movies about a lot of black Jazz performers, here in the last few years, have ever listened to people like Charlie Parker, or Dizzie Gillepsie or uh...?

AB: Yeah, I listen to them. The're all musicians, most all of the greats have died out...besides Louie there's uh...Duke Elington(?), you know was big time band leaders here (unintelligible)...I believe Cab Calloway is the only one hanging in there and he's as old as I am...But he's not playing any, he appears...giving him a show.

B: Back in the '20's and '30's when quote and unquote black music became popular with white social life and stuff like that, would whites ever go to clubs when you would go to a dance or to the club did whites go to or...?

AB: Yeah, and we use to have a dance in the Memorial building in town...and they had balconies, that was before they remodeled that building...It was like a opera house inside...where they give stand shows and balconies all around and up top. Well, when uh...it would go back to verses, if the blacks were giving something...The same would be for the whites, they would use the balcony to observe...they would come to watch programs and performance, and when they get something if we wanted to go why, we could go upstairs to watch too.

B: Okay, but it went back and forth, depending on who was sponsoring...the event? Okay, alright. Well my last group of questions uh...have to do with the church, did you and your wife got to church?

AB: Yes, she was one, she was Baptist, and I was a Methodist.

B: Okay, did you all got out the same church eventually or did you...?

AB: No, we never did uh...we visit each others church, each others church but uh...we never did join you know, I've always been a Methodist, and she always been a Baptist.

B: Was there a black Methodist Church in WIlliamson?

AB: Uh-hun, on Sixth AVenue.

B: OKay, do any of the ministers stand out in your mind?

AB: Yes, there is (unintelligible) my wife's uh...Pastor... he still uh...preaching, in his and her church. But my Methodist Church as you know, they changed Pastors every so often unliked the Baptist, because the Presbyterian they change too, but uh...the Methodist change about well they, it might be in the Methodist church passed over two years the most, so they change and move them somewhere else, and get a new Pastor.

B: What's the full name of, of your church?

AB: The uh...I'm trying to get uh...the uh...oh shucks, come on, come on, oh...maybe I'll tell you in a minute. Uh...the Baptist, now isn't this something I can't even think of my own church uh... B: I was just wondering if it was, I heard there is one in Morgantown, the African Methodist Epipscooal [sic]

AB: Yeah, that's it....

B: Okay,

AB: You know more about than I do.

B: This is tape two of the Archie Bland interview, we were discussing uh...your church, and I think the next group of questions that I have for you is, what do you remember about the floods, what stands out about the floods (unintelligible)?

AB: The '77 flood, was uh...great, it was uh...disastrous uh...it could of been worse, they was no loss of life as far as I heard, but we were lucky...It came so quick...and no warning, and it hadn't rain that much in WIlliamson...and where I lived, I was right in the middle of it, on Fourth Avenue...I lived upstairs and it got five feet in my house and I lived upstairs, it never been that high before...and we where, had to be taken out of the house by boat, because the water came up so close and we didn't' have time (to get) downstairs...and go around, around the house, down the street, to keep away...the time that water came right straight across from uh...First Avenue the took off Second and Third and went on up out the High Rise there, Fourth Avenue... in a matter of minutes.

B: See, did you see it coming like a wave or?

AB: Yes, I looked through window, sitting up there talking and uh...we heard it, the whistle blowing at the Kwianwis [sic], to expect it didn't day it was going to happen, and all of sudden I looked out the window, the water was coming, the water was so strong, it (making a rolling motion) was just turning car over in the road, and moving like this...whole block, come...around the corner, at the high rise was next to my house, it was that strong...

B: Uh-huh...what do you remember thinking at that moment when you looked out and saw that?

AB: How are we going to get out? (laughing) Well I had my wife and granddaughter and I moved, the proprietor the owner of the house he was up there, just before I was...I wasn't to worried to much about him and myself, but I was worried about my wife and, and the child...cause we couldn't we had to try to swim out of there, or get up on top of the house, in the attic, so we hadn't made up our minds really...what we was going to do, and this boat uh...crate crate, we had boats, he came by and picked us up.

B: Uh-huh...did you all lose everything?

AB: Yes.

B: Did you have insurance or how did you replace it?

AB: No, they uh...I was just, I don't know how they send her in some people out of Pennsylvania, and New York and they takin' uh...inventory everything...

B: Uh-huh...

AB: come and look all of, there was no use in writing it, "you all have lost everything" I say, "we sure have..." so they wrote us up, two girls and two men. And they replaced it, they was a check for almost everything...

B: Alright, well is there anything that I haven't asked you about, did...?

AB: No, I'm, I'm glad to been of help this far, what little I can remember.

B: Okay, well I really enjoyed talking to you this afternoon.

AB: I enjoyed talking to you ma'am.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection