U.S. Congress. Senate. Subcommittee of the Committee on Education and Labor.
Conditions in the Paint Creek District, West Virginia. Hearings before a Subcommittee of the
Committee on Education and Labor. Part I. 63rd Cong., 1st sess., 1913.
June 13, 1913
Maud Estep was called as a witness, and, having been sworn by Senator Kenyon, testified as follows:
Direct examination:
Mr. Belcher. What is your husband's name?
Mrs. Estep. Francis Francesco.
Mr. Belcher. And what is your name?
Mrs. Estep. Maud Estep.
Mr. Belcher. Mrs. Estep, where do you now reside?
Mrs. Estep. Holly Grove.
Mr. Belcher. How long have you lived at Holly Grove?
Mrs. Estep. I have lived there ever since last April.
Mr. Belcher. Where did you live prior to April last?
Mrs. Estep. On Cabin Creek and Acme.
Mr. Belcher. Is your husband living?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. When did he die?
Mrs. Estep. The 7th of February.
Senator Kenyon. You had better put the year in.
Mr. Belcher. What year - February of this year?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. What caused his death, if you know?
Mrs. Estep. Well, he was shot from the train, I suppose; the train went up there, and they were shooting from the train at the house.
Mr. Belcher. Is that what is known as the bull-moose train?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. Was that on the night of February 7 of this year?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. At what time in the night was this, Mrs. Estep?
Mrs. Estep. Between 10 and 11 o'clock, some time; I don't just exactly know what time; that was by my time.
Mr. Belcher. Where were you living at Holly Grove?
Mrs. Estep. We lived across over on the other side from the station - across the creek.
Mr. Belcher. Were you living in a house?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. What was your husband doing immediately before he was shot?
Mrs. Estep. He was in the house when the train commenced shooting down on the other side. We were all in the house sitting there carrying on and talking. We heard the train come shooting, and he hollered for us to go to the cellar, and he went out the front door - him and some more boys that were in there; they ran out of the front door, and I went through the kitchen way, and I never got any farther than the kitchen door; we were all trying to get to the cellar. He was standing right at the corner of the cellar near the kitchen door where I was standing hollering for me to go and get into the cellar. It was so dark that I could just see the bulk of him. It scared me so - and I had a little one in my arms - that I could not go any farther. His cousin was there on a visit, and after the train commenced shooting he took hold of me and told me not to fall, and about that time a shot struck him in the leg.
Senator Kenyon. Struck the cousin in the leg?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; his cousin.
Senator Kenyon. You go into the cellar of your house right off the ground, do you not?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. The house was elevated a few feet above the ground?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; there had been a cellar under there, and it was torn down, and they were fixing it up, so if any trouble started I could go there.
Senator Kenyon. Was there any shooting in town that night?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; not until the train came.
Senator Kenyon. How old was your baby:
Mrs. Estep. My baby, one I have now, is 2 months old.
Senator Kenyon. Your baby was not born at that time?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Senator Kenyon. Did you have another child, did you say?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. How old was that child?
Mrs. Estep. He won't be 2 years old until the 16th of September.
Senator Kenyon. What time was this?
Mrs. Estep. Between 10 and 11 o'clock.
Senator Kenyon. Had there been any shooting in the little settlement there before the train came along?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; the first thing we heard was shots from the train. I suppose it started from the train. It was away below our house. We live up above the first town where the station is.
Senator Kenyon. You live where that bridge is?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. That swinging bridge?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. The bridge across the creek there?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. What time of night was this?
Mrs. Estep. Between 10 and 11 o'clock - that is, by our time.
Senator Kenyon. Had there been any disorder in the settlement that night? Had you heard any shooting before that time?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Senator Kenyon. Could you hear this train coming?
Mrs. Estep. We heard it after it commenced shooting. We had not heard it before. We had our doors closed.
Senator Kenyon. Could you see the train?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I never went out the front way at all.
Senator Kenyon. When did you know your husband was shot?
Mrs. Estep. I didn't know he was killed until after the train quit shooting, and I heard some of them speak to him and call his name, and I never heard him answer.
Senator Kenyon. Did he get into the cellar?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Senator Kenyon. The body was outside of the house and near the entrance to the cellar?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; right on the outside of the house, pretty near to the back corner of the house.
Senator Kenyon. Could you tell whether the house was hit by bullets?
Mrs. Estep. It seemed to me like it was, but I have never been back over there to see. I left there that night in the night and I have not been back.
Mr. Knight. Did your husband have his gun with him when he was shot?
Mrs. Estep. I don't know. He went out the front door. He didn't have it when he started, unless he got it when he went out.
Mr. Knight. Where was his gun?
Mrs. Estep. I don't remember. It was in the house.
Mr. Knight. What kind of a gun did he have?
Mrs. Estep. An "MM" Mauser.
Mr. Knight. A millimeter Mauser?
Mrs. Estep. I don't know.
Mrs. [sic] Knight. You call it an "MM" Mauser?
Mrs. Estep. That is what he called it.
Mr. Knight. Where did he keep it?
Mrs. Estep. In the house.
Mr. Knight. Whereabouts did he hang it in the house?
Mrs. Estep. He didn't hang it anywhere.
Mr. Knight. Near the front doorway?
Mrs. Estep. One place and another; across the bed sometimes.
Mr. Knight. Do you know whether he grabbed it when he went out or not?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I went out this way and he went out the front door; I went out the backway.
Mr. Knight. Isn't your cellar entrance open?
Mrs. Estep. It was open all around the back end.
Mr. Knight. The nearest way to it was by the backway, wasn't it?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; you had to go out the backway to get into it; they had the front part fixed up.
Mr. Knight. And he went out the front door?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. And you don't know whether he had his gun or not?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Knight. You spoke of some other boys being there; who were they?
Mrs. Estep. They were his brother, Jim Estep, Bob Fauber, and Anderson Fauber, and Enoch Farrell.
Mr. Knight. What were those gentlemen doing at your house at that time of night?
Mrs. Estep. I can't tell you that; they had just come in there.
Mr. Knight. Who was your cousin?
Mrs. Estep. Enoch Farrell.
Mr. Knight. He was your husband's cousin?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. Did those boys have their guns with them?
Mrs. Estep. If they did, I didn't see them.
Mr. Knight. There had been some shooting in Holly Grove that morning, had there not?
Mrs. Estep. I think there had been away down below where we live.
Mr. Knight. There had been some shooting in Holly Grove down below where you live?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. Mrs. Estep, as a matter of fact, you know there was some shooting up at Mucklow that day, wasn't there?
Mrs. Estep. I don't know.
Mr. Knight. Didn't you hear it?
Mrs. Estep. I heard that.
Mr. Knight. That was about noon?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. You heard that some guards and some dogs left Mucklow and came down over the hills, and when they came in sight of Holly Grove there was some shooting between the men in the camp and the men on the hills, the men down below there, not where you live?
Mrs. Estep. I heard them talk about it. I didn't hear of any shooting; I heard about some shooting up on the hill.
Mr. Knight. Some boys from the lower camp had shot at these men with dogs up on the hills?
Mrs. Estep. That is what I heard them say; I don't know who it was.
Mr. Knight. Who did you hear say there was some shooting?
Mrs. Estep. I don't remember.
Mr. Knight. Did you hear your husband say it?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Knight. How about Bob Fauber?
Mrs. Estep. I don't remember who said it.
Mr. Knight. How about Anderson Fauber?
Senator Kenyon. She says she doesn't remember who said it, and what is the use of asking about each one?
You don't remember who said it - anyone who said it, Mrs. Estep?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Knight. When Bob Fauber and Anderson Fauber and Jim Estep and Enoch Farrell were there at your house that night did you talk about the sheriff's train coming up that night?
Mrs. Estep. I don't know whether we did or not. We had heard the train was coming.
Mr. Knight. You had heard that the sheriff's train was coming?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. Jim and Bob and Anderson and Enoch talked about it with your husband; they talked about it together?
Mrs. Estep. I don't remember, because they had been in there only a little while, not over five minutes; I was fixing to go to bed and I had one of my shoes unlaced. They had not much more than sat down.
Mr. Knight. They came there, then, to your house that night for the first time between 10 and 11 o'clock?
Mrs. Estep. Part of them. Enoch Farrell and Jim Estep were there about dark and did not leave.
Mr. Knight. And Bob Fauber and Anderson Fauber came over to the house just before the shooting?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; about the time it commenced.
Mr. Knight. Were you in the room where your husband you Enoch Farrell and Jim Estep were when the Faubers came in?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir.
Mr. Knight. What did the Faubers say when they came in?
Mrs. Estep. I don't know what they said.
Mr. Knight. You have no recollection as to what they said?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Knight. Did they mention the fact that the sheriff's train was expected any minute?
Mrs. Estep. I don't remember if they did.
Mr. Knight. You are not sure?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I am not.
Mr. Knight. Might they not have said that the sheriff's train was about due?
Mrs. Estep. They might have said it; I don't know whether they did or not.
Mr. Knight. You say they didn't have their guns with them, or do you say that they did?
Mrs. Estep. If they did, I didn't see them.
Mr. Knight. You don't know whether they left them outside or not?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Knight. That is all.
Mr. Belcher. What was the last thing your husband said to you, Mrs. Estep? Was he trying to get you in the cellar?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; the last I heard him he was hollering for me to go in and get in the cellar. Hessie Willis was in there with me, and me and her went out the back way, and he was standing there; I could just see him in the dark; I could just see the bulk of him in the dark, and he was saying: "You women get in right quick; get in the cellar."
Mr. Knight. If these men had any guns, you didn't see them?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. You never heard them say anything about shooting up anybody, did you?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. And they had just come over there and, so far as you know, were acting in an orderly manner?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; they had just come in there. It happened so quick after they came in that I disremember them coming in.
Mr. Belcher. Did you hear the train before the shooting give two sharp blasts of the whistle?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. You didn't see the train as it went by at all?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. I will ask you if this is a photograph of your house, the one you were living in at the time your husband was killed?
Mrs. Estep. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. Belcher. I want to file that.
(The picture submitted by Mr. Belcher will be found on opposite page.)
Mr. Belcher. You say you have not inspected your house since this shooting down there to see whether or not there were bullet holes?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I have not been over there.
Mr. Belcher. Do you know how many times your husband was shot, Mrs. Estep.
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I did not; I never did get to see him.
Mr. Belcher. How often were these shots fired from the train; were they fired in rapid succession?
Mrs. Estep. They were.
Mr. Belcher. Mr. Knight asked you if you knew whether or not the men around Holly Grove, or boys, were shooting at men up on the hillside. Do you know whether the men from Holly Grove had been doing that, whether they had been doing that shooting or the men from the woods had been doing the shooting; you don't know, do you?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. Belcher. You don't know that any of the men had been doing the shooting?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir; I don't know who it was.
Mr. Belcher. You did hear that the town of Holly Grove had been fired upon in the morning, didn't you?
Mrs. Estep. Sir?
Mr. Belcher. You did hear on that occasion that the town of Holly Grove had been fired on from the hillside, didn't you?
Mrs. Estep. No, sir.
Mr. Belcher. That is all.