U.S. Congress. Senate. Subcommittee of the Committee on Education and Labor.
Conditions in the Paint Creek District, West Virginia. Hearings before a Subcommittee of the
Committee on Education and Labor. Part I. 63rd Cong., 1st sess., 1913.
June 17, 1913
Quinn Morton was called as a witness, and having been sworn by Senator Kenyon testified as follows:
Mr. Vinson. You are Mr. Quinn Morton?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. Are you interested as a stockholder and manager in coal companies, Mr. Morton, in Paint Creek?
Mr. Morton. I am general manager of the Imperial Colliery Co. of Burnwell and of the Christian Colliery at Mahan.
Mr. Vinson. Those two?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Vinson. How long have you been interested up there in the coal business, Mr. Morton?
Mr. Morton. I have been interested with the Imperial Colliery Co. since 1906 and the other company since it was organized, something over two years ago.
Mr. Vinson. I believe those companies are under your management?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
. . . .
Senator Martine. Very well. In the conduct of your mines you had a strike during the past year?
Mr. Morton: Yes.
Senator Martine. And you deemed it wise to employ that are known as mine guards?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. You did employ mine guards?
Mr. Morton. I did.
Senator Martine. Were the services of the mine guards entirely satisfactory to you and your company?
Mr. Morton. They were.
Senator Martine. During that strike you had occasion to bring in what are known as transportation men, or outside men - strike breakers; is that right?
Mr. Morton. Well, we brought in transportation men at various times; yes, sir.
Senator Martine. When they were brought in, how were they brought in?
Mr. Morton. Brought in on C. & O. passenger trains.
Senator Martine. Brought in on C. & O. passenger trains. Were you present at any time on any train when those transportation men were brought in?
Mr. Morton. On several occasions I have gone from Charleston up to the mine or from Paint Creek Junction to the mines when the men were on the train.
Senator Martine. You were in custody really of the train, were you?
Mr. Morton. No.
Senator Martine. You were in custody so far as being practically the owner of the train. Did the transportation men pay their fare in or did you pay their fare in?
Mr. Morton. I generally advanced the money for the people who came to our place.
Senator Martine. You paid for the men?
Mr. Morton. I paid the transportation.
Senator Martine. You advanced the money, hence I can assume that the money came back to you from their wages?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Kenyon. Have you finished the contract investigation, as to these demands and the relationship of the union and Mr. Morton, up to the time of the strike? Had you finished that, Mr. Vinson?
Mr. Vinson. I had almost finished that.
Senator Martine. I only broke in because Mr. Vinson asked me to.
Senator Kenyon. I suggest it would be better to finish that before we get on these other features.
Senator Martine. I will cease very readily.
Mr. Morton. It seems to me it would be well to let the Senator get through with this line, as he is only half through with it now.
Senator Kenyon. I assumed they were going to reach it later.
Mr. Vinson. Yes; I was building it up in chronological order. I wanted this witness's evidence to tell the occurrences in the order of time.
Senator Martine. I will be very brief, and I do not believe it will interfere with the general contour of the case. You were present at many times?
Mr. Morton. On several occasions; yes, sir, Senator.
Senator Martine. Did you give any orders, or to your knowledge were the doors of those cars of those transportation trains ever locked while they were moving?
Mr. Morton. I do not think that I ever brought a single man, woman, or child into our mines that did not travel in the regular coaches of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad, and if they locked them up, they would have been obliged to lock up all the rest of them.
Senator Martine. Well, you do not know they were not locked?
Mr. Morton. I know they were not locked at any time I was riding on the train; but I can not say what happened when I was not there.
Senator Martine. Well, then, when these mine guards were brought into the territory, have you any knowledge as to what they carried in the way of arms?
Mr. Morton. Most of them, I think, sir, were furnished with arms after they reached our place.
Senator Martine. Who furnished the arms?
Mr. Morton. We did; our company.
Senator Martine. The coal company?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. What did those arms consist of?
Mr. Morton. They were Winchester rifles, I think, generally; what they call 30-30's; it is a high-power gun.
Senator Martine. Anything else?
Mr. Morton. No, sir. Some of those who had the pistol licenses carried the short arms; those they furnished for themselves.
Senator Martine. Do you know what constitutes a Gatling or machine gun?
Mr. Morton. I have seen machine guns; I never saw a Gatling gun.
Senator Martine. Where have you seen them?
Mr. Morton. I have seen several of them during this time.
Senator Martine. Where?
Mr. Morton. I saw one of them at the town of Mucklow, the first one. And I saw several of them that the militia had when they were up there.
Senator Martine. Who furnished those?
Mr. Morton. The one we had at Mucklow, or that was at Mucklow, was borrowed, I think, from one of the operators in the New River district and brought down there, and I think was afterwards purchased by our association up there.
Senator Martine. And you still have it?
Mr. Morton. I have no idea where it is now, Senator.
Senator Martine. You never sold it?
Mr. Morton. No.
Senator Martine. But you bought it?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. You did not buy it for ornament?
Mr. Morton. No, sir; for protection.
Senator Martine. Have you ever seen one in operation?
Mr. Morton. I never have.
Senator Martine. Have you never been on a train when it was in operation?
Mr. Morton. I was on a train one night when I was told one was in operation.
Senator Martine. Is your hearing good?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Senator Martine. Did you hear it?
Mr. Morton. I think I did.
Senator Martine. You are satisfied, then it was in operation?
Mr. Morton. I am satisfied it was in operation.
Senator Martine. Do you know or now know whether it was on the train on which you were riding?
Mr. Morton. I know it was on the train on which I was riding; yes, sir.
Senator Martine. At that time you heard it, what was the peculiar character of its noise and reports; was it like that of an ordinary rifle?
Mr. Morton. No, sir; it is very rapid, almost like a whir.
Senator Martine. In other words, kind of a fusilade [sic]?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. You are satisfied that it was on the train; it followed you, the noise did?
Mr. Morton. What is that?
Senator Martine. The noise followed you; or, in other words, the noise continued on the same train with you?
Mr. Morton. When it was shooting?
Senator Martine. When it was shooting.
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. Where were you with reference to the gun when it was on the train; what car was this gun located in?
Mr. Morton. This gun was located in what is known as the baggage car, which has been fully described here, I think.
Senator Martine. Yes, we have had it very often. You have heard the description which has been given?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. It was reasonably correct, was it, so far as you know?
Mr. Morton. I think so.
Senator Martine. Where did it run, up along the track through this town of Mucklow?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; it went up as far as Mucklow. I think it stopped there.
Senator Martine. But it was fired while it was in motion?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Senator Martine. While the car was in motion?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. In which direction was it placed - firing toward the village or away from the village or up to the skies?
Mr. Morton. Senator, I was not in the car, and I could not tell you which way. I imagine, though, it was fired toward the village.
Senator Martine. That is your reasonably best judgment?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. When it went up, what did you do - just stay there the rest of the day or return?
Mr. Morton. We got to Mucklow and after we got up there we stayed there until the next morning and came back to Charleston; I did.
Senator Martine. That night did the whole train stay there?
Mr. Morton. At Mucklow?
Senator Martine. Yes.
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. Did not return?
Mr. Morton. No.
Senator Martine. Did you have any conversation - do you know a man by the name of Calvin?
Mr. Morton. I do.
Senator Martine. Was he on your train?
Mr. Morton. I think he was. I know he was.
Senator Martine. How did he come there?
Mr. Morton. I think he got there - that the sheriff took him up there, in fact.
Senator Martine. The sheriff was there, too?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. Did you have a conversation with the sheriff?
Mr. Morton. I did.
Senator Martine. After you had passed up and after this continued firing toward the village?
Mr. Morton. I expect I had a conversation with pretty nearly everybody who was there.
Senator Martine. Conversation with reference to the trip and the train and all that; what was that conversation?
Mr. Morton. Well, I think it would be rather difficult to say -
Mr. Vinson. Can you direct his attention to any particular point, Senator?
Senator Martine. Yes; I desire to, but I wanted to lead him up and refresh his memory a little bit.
Mr. Vinson. Just indicate what it is you want.
Senator Martine. To be frank and blunt with you, did you have a conversation with the sheriff about the execution of the machine gun?
Mr. Morton. I do not recollect having any conference or conversation with the sheriff in reference to the machine gun.
Senator Martine. What was your conversation, now that I have refreshed you?
Mr. Morton. Give me a little time, and I will try to get it out for you the best I know how.
Senator Martine. Yes; that is all right.
Mr. Morton. Immediately after the shooting was over everybody in the coach gathered up there in a very great excitement -
Senator Martine. Gathered up there - where?
Mr. Morton. In the coach; in sort of a huddle, together in the middle of the coach; in a very great excitement -
Senator Martine. Wait. This coach was located on the train behind the baggage car?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. In which the machine gun had been doing its execution?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. They gathered in the passenger car?
Mr. Morton. They gathered in the passenger car, and there were no light in it.
Senator Martine. Why were there not any lights in it? Was it usual for a passenger car to run along their road with the lights turned out?
Mr. Morton. No, sir. This was a very unusual time. Some of the Chesapeake & Ohio men, I take it, had put the lights out in the coach. I do not know which one, but I take it for granted that one of the Chesapeake & Ohio men did.
Senator Martine. Did it meet with your approbation as a passenger?
Mr. Morton. It certainly did.
Senator Martine. Why, would you rather ride in darkness than in light?
Mr. Vinson. Explain that, please.
Mr. Morton. When the train was shifted into Paint Creek Junction off from the main line onto the branch, Sheriff Bonner Hill came to me and informed me that someone had told him that he had better not take that train up Paint Creek, that it was going to be shot up. I said to Mr. Hill, the sheriff, "I can not think that it is possible that it will be done, and I think the best thing for us is to go on where we are going, because those people may be in dire distress," and for that reason I did not object to the coach being darkened.
Senator Martine. Well, that is simply a matter of taste.
Mr. Vinson. It was a matter of life.
Senator Martine. But you knew shots were being fired from your train?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; I did.
Senator Martine. And you knew the machine gun was in use. You say you believed it was turned in the direction of the settlement -
Senator Kenyon. Mr. Morton, the question was asked you as to your train. I do not think you want to put yourself in a false position. This was not your train.
Mr. Vinson. It was not his train. It was the sheriff's train.
Mr. Morton. Will you allow me to explain how I happened to be on that train?
Senator Martine. Yes.
Senator Kenyon. I think he should be allowed to go on and explain it in his own way.
Mr. Morton. I came to Charleston on a matter of business on the morning of February 7, I think it was. About the time I got to the hotel I had a call from the bookkeeper at Mucklow, that the town was being shot up, they only had five or six men there and no rifles, and that they expected the whole town to be murdered. They were in a great state of excitement. And a little while afterwards the superintendent of the mines, Mr. Lambert, also called me up, and they were very much excited. And a few minutes afterwards somebody called me up and said that Dr. Anderson, in going to the hospital with a patient, had been shot into on the road, and things up there were in a horrible condition. I was very much excited, or course, and being very much interested in conditions up there, and our own works just beyond. Just about this time Sheriff Hill came into the hotel hunting for me and asked if I had heard anything. I told him I had just been talking to the mines. He says, "Well, we must do something; these things can not go on. I don't know what to do." I says, "I think we had better go and talk to the governor." And Mr. Hill left me and I take it he discussed the matter with the governor, and he came back and told me he would get a posse of men and try to get ready to catch No. 8, which left here after 4 o'clock in the evening, to go up to the mines. However, he wanted to see the prosecuting attorney and get everything fixed up, and he was delayed, and he could not get ready to go on that train -
Mr. Vinson. Pardon me for interrupting you right there. At that time did the sheriff, when he came to you, inform you that one of his deputies up in that neighborhood had phoned him of the conditions that prevailed there and advised him of trouble?
Mr. Morton. He said to me that Deputy Little had called him up and given him this information, which was practically the same that I had.
Senator Martine. Mr. Morton, did you -
Mr. Morton. Will you allow me to finish, Senator?
Senator Martine. I thought you had finished.
Mr. Morton. No; I am just getting started with my story, Senator.
Senator Martine. All right.
Mr. Morton. And the sheriff came to me, and he says, "I don't see; we can not get ready to go on this train No. 8 to look after this matter, and I don't know what we are going to do." I says, "Mr. Hill, the matter seems to be so serious and I am so alarmed that I will call up the general superintendent of the Chesapeake & Ohio at Huntington, and ask if he can not furnish you a special train." I called up Mr. Carey's office and he told me they had this train, which is popularly known as the Bull Moose train, at Cabin Creek Junction, and he would send it down here; and he did, and Sheriff Hill got this number of men and we started up. Now, there has been a good deal said about the rifles -
The Chairman. How many men were on the train?
Mr. Morton. I think there were 10 or 11 in the passenger coach; and the Chesapeake & Ohio had several of their special agents, probably five or six. I am not certain about that. There has been a good deal said about the guns that went up there, and I think some one testified here, if the papers correctly reported the testimony, that they were furnished by Lieut. Philip Walker.
Mr. Vinson. Explain about the guns.
Mr. Morton. These people in calling me up said they had not protection, no help, and they had nothing. I went down to Loewenstein's hardware store and got 30 rifles and ammunition and took them in a taxicab; Mr. McClenahan and myself took them in a taxicab over to the station and put them on the train. That is where the guns came from.
Senator Kenyon. Where did the machine gun come from, if you know?
Mr. Morton. It was on the train and belonged to the Chesapeake & Ohio, and I think it had been used, because these trains had been shot into on several occasions, and they put it there for protection to their men, as I understand it. When we got to Paint Creek Junction, in going from the main line onto the branch, Mr. Hill, as I stated, came in and said the brakeman told him not to go up there as he was going to be shot at. I told him I didn't think it was possible and I did not think so. About half a mile before we got to Holly Grove - after we left the station, as I say - the lights were put out, and when we got about half a mile from Holly Grove there is a little cabin on the right-hand side of the Chesapeake & Ohio, between it and the bank of the creek, and there I saw a number of women and children. This was possibly about half past 10 or 11 o'clock. They were standing in this cabin in the doors and windows, all full; I have no idea how many there were, but there were so many of them that they attracted my attention, and I turned to McClenahan and says, "Mack, this looks bad; I am afraid we are going to have trouble," A little after this the train gave a signal for the station, I take it.
Senator Martine. Was this a blast of the whistle?
Mr. Morton. I think so; yes.
Mr. Vinson. Why did you think the appearance of the women and children there in the house was an indication that you were going to have trouble or be fired on?
Mr. Morton. I supposed these people had prepared themselves for trouble and had sent the women and children out of the camp so that they would be out of danger's way.
Senator Martine. That was only a supposition, however?
Mr. Morton. Yes, that was all. Now the train made a whistle, which I took to be a signal for the station.
Senator Martine. What character of signal?
Mr. Morton. I think it was two blasts or three.
Senator Martine. Extraordinarily loud or "toot, toot?"
Mr. Morton. I don't think it was extraordinarily loud or extraordinarily low; it was a fairly loud whistle.
Senator Martine. You do not know anything about railroad methods, so you would not be able to say that it was a toot, toot for a railroad crossing.
Mr. Vinson. We will have the fireman who was on the train here to testify about that.
Senator Martine. I do not press that, if the gentleman does not know.
Mr. Morton. Just a few moments, or I don't remember how long it was, it was after this train signal we had gotten; there were no lights and everything was in perfect darkness, both within and without; I heard two shots, and I think it was to the left of the train as we were going up. The first indication of any trouble I heard at all was two shots which I took to be on the left of the train as we were going up. A second or two after that there was something crashed through the window from the left-hand side of the train about 2 feet in front of me and came through, and I took it to be and still think it was a bullet which came through the train. That I do not know.
Senator Martine. What was the character of the fracture in the glass? That would prove whether it was a bullet or a brickbat.
Mr. Morton. Well, the glass around there - there was some glass that had been broken in, but before this thing was over glass was broken in very nearly all the windows, and I could not tell that until after we got a light. But immediately after these two shots the firing opened up. It looked to me like from every place on the face of the earth, and I never heard such a fusillade in my life and hope I will never hear another.
Senator Kenyon. Was that firing against the train or against and from the train?
Mr. Morton. Both.
Senator Kenyon. Both started in?
Mr. Morton. Both started in; yes, sir.
Senator Kenyon. Was there any firing from the coach you were in?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Senator Martine. And who carried on the firing from the coach you were in?
Mr. Morton. I did for one, sir. I don't know about the others.
Senator Martine. You had been to the town a great many times before?
Mr. Morton. I had been through there on the train.
Senator Martine. You knew its general character. Did you know whether the town was inhabited that night?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; I knew the town was inhabited that night.
Senator Martine. You knew the town was inhabited that night?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; I could not help knowing it.
Senator Martine. At the time the fusillade was going on?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; I could see the flashes -
Senator Martine. You knew the general character of the inhabitants?
Mr. Morton. Senator, if you will let me finish my answer, please.
Senator Martine. I thought you did finish your answer.
Mr. Morton. I simply wanted to say I knew it was inhabited at that time from the number of shots I saw fired toward our train.
Senator Martine. How recently had you been there previous to the firing of the shots?
Mr. Morton. I passed through the day before on the train.
Senator Martine. You knew reasonably that it was an inhabited town. Now, I want to ask did you approve of the use of the machine gun through an inhabited village?
Mr. Morton. It was not a question that I could approve or disapprove. I had nothing to do with the machine gun and -
Senator Martine. No; but you were really in command, were you not?
Mr. Morton. No, sir; I was not.
Senator Martine. These men you were taking up were on your train?
Mr. Morton. It was not my train. I was not taking anybody up.
Mr. Vinson. Now, if the Senator will pardon me -
Mr. Morton. No; let me defend myself.
Mr. Vinson. I will defend you.
Senator Martine. I am not making any onslaught on you. I want to get the truth.
Mr. Vinson. I say you keep repeating to this witness and saying "Your train," when he has repeatedly told you it was not his train and he had no control over that train and it is not fair to put that in this record.
Senator Martine. I do not want to be unfair, but it seemed to me the association was so utterly dovetailed in -
The Chairman. Gentlemen, please stop this discussion. The committee will pass upon the question, but the hearing must be conducted orderly. The questions must be written down by the stenographer and we will pass upon whether they shall be answered.
Senator Martine. I want it distinctly understood when I say "your train" I do not mean necessarily that you owned the whole train or any part of it, but I only say "your train" in the same way that you ask me when I come to Washington or say "my train came in at such an hour." I do not mean necessarily that I own it. So if you have construed my question in that way, Mr. Vinson, you have been groping in error.
Mr. Vinson. Before we get away from that, here is just as good a place to fix this record right as any other. I would like to have Senator Martine state that when he used that term, "your train," he does not mean it was owned by him.
The Chairman. He has so stated.
Senator Martine. Now, I want to ask you, Mr. Morton - I ask you again, did you approve of the use of the machine gun?
Mr. Morton. I answered that question, Senator Martine, that I had no opportunity to approve or disapprove.
Senator Martine. But you have, in your own conscience and mind. Do you approve of the use of the machine gun?
Mr. Morton. I absolutely approved of undertaking to defend myself, and for others to defend themselves when they are attacked as we were attacked that night, sir.
Senator Martine. Suppose you had been attacked by a band of men who you knew lived in a house, would you deem yourself justified in poisoning the well?
Mr. Vinson. I object to that sort of questioning.
Senator Martine. I have a right to ask that question. The question is insisted upon. I say in asking these questions I want to know whether this gentleman, a cultured gentleman and an educated gentleman, approves of the use of a machine gun in a populous village - do you or do you not, in your own conscience? Now, you have a right to say yes to no as to whether it should be.
(The question was repeated by the stenographer, as recorded above.)
Mr. Vinson. I must say that I can not think we are here to investigate what Mr. Morton has in his conscience.
Senator Martine. All right.
Mr. Morton. I am willing to make this statement.
The Chairman. I understood Mr. Morton wanted to answer that.
Mr. Morton. I want to make a statement.
Senator Kenyon. We are here to investigate the facts. Of course, some of the committee are not lawyers, and perhaps look at this in a little different way.
Senator Martine. I am frank to say I am not a lawyer.
Mr. Morton. May I make a statement in the record right here?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Morton. In this cross-examination by Senator Martine I feel that I have been done a very great injustice. Senator Martine, when this matter was brought up, and they had a man by the name of Calvin on the stand, got up in this room and condemned me absolutely and by his questioning seems to feel that I have been guilty of some great wrong, and I want to say in my opinion I believe my conscience is as clear to-day as yours is, sir, and because you are a Senator you have no right to condemn me.
Senator Martine. I do not want to compare my conscience at all with yours in the matter. Neither am I - I am only trying to get the truth in this matter. I do believe it is within my privileges to show the general condition that prevailed. That is the animus of this -
Mr. Morton. As judge and jury you ought not to convict me before I am tried.
Senator Martine. I am not convicting you al all. When you speak of my reference to you in the former testimony, I did rise in my place and say, "Is this man an American citizen?" It seemed to me appalling, horrible.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Senator Martine. Now, I am in order, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator, let me make a statement.
Senator Martine. Proceed.
The Chairman. When there is a dispute about a question submitted, whether it is a proper statement, in the future we will allow the stenographer to write the questions down and then if there is any objection the committee will hear it in the regular, legal way and proceed in a legal way.
Senator Martine. I am afraid that it will be impossible for me to come within your legal definition or scope and questions. I am not a lawyer. I can not surround my terms, my phrases, my words, or my methods with your legal methods, and I do not deem, with all deference to my learned and very delightful colleague - I do not believe it is necessary. I do not believe the animus and purpose of the resolution that passed the Senate of the United States attempted any such thing. You may do as you please about striking this out. I want to ask, did you not - did you have a conversation with the sheriff regarding this firing, after the firing had gone on, Mr. Morton?
The Chairman. That is a legitimate question. Mr. Morton will answer.
Mr. Morton. I do not recall having any specific conversation with the sheriff until the following morning. There was a great deal of talk and a great deal of excitement in the train.
Senator Martine. Now, you did, then, have a conversation? State that conversation with the sheriff.
Mr. Morton. I could not possibly do so.
Senator Martine. Can you state what he did regarding this particular matter?
Mr. Morton. On the train that night?
Senator Martine. Yes.
Mr. Morton. I could not, sir.
Senator Martine. Was there anyone that said, "Let's back up and give them another round.["]
Mr. Morton. Not that I know of, sir. I didn't hear it.
Senator Martine. You were close enough by the sheriff to have heard had he said it?
Mr. Morton. Part of the time.
Senator Martine. Did you hear anybody else say that?
Mr. Morton. I did not, sir.
Senator Martine. With reference to where that conversation was held, where was one Lee Calvin?
Mr. Morton. I think he was in the coach there.
Senator Martine. How close was he to you?
Mr. Morton. I don't know, sir.
Senator Martine. Do you know whether at the end of the train or next to you?
Mr. Morton. If you will allow me to make an explanation there I think possibly this would clear up this understanding. This train was in utter darkness, except one lantern, and somebody had an electric flashlight in it. After this shooting occurred everybody in the coach mixed up and looked around to see if anybody was hurt. I think possibly everybody in the coach was talking more or less. It was only about a mile after the shooting occurred until we arrived at Mucklow. There could have been but little conversation of any kind, except just such as would occur in the excitement going on at that time.
Senator Martine. Now, Mr. Morton, you are a gentleman of education and large interests and large influence and large prominence, financially and every way, in this community.
Mr. Morton. I am certainly in prominence at present.
Senator Martine. Well, every other way. I won't deny that you are. I want to ask whether you deem it a civilized method to use a machine gun on helpless women and children? You can do as you please about answering it. I would like an answer.
Mr. Morton. I don't care to go into this expression of my conscience in these matters or my opinion.
Senator Kenyon. I don't think you are called upon to answer a question of that kind unless you want to.
Mr. Morton. I am tired of being browbeaten.
Senator Martine. I can stand the silence, and I think the public can, if you can.
. . . .
Mr. Belcher. You say you ordered the Bull Moose train from the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Co. that shot into Holly Grove?
Mr. Morton. I requested the superintendent to furnish that train to the sheriff, for the sheriff.
Mr. Belcher. Did the sheriff request you to request of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Co. that train?
Mr. Morton. The sheriff told me he had no way to get up there unless - after No. 8 passed he had no way to get up there unless he could get a train. I told the sheriff I thought I could arrange with the Chesapeake & Ohio officials to furnish that train, and I did so.
Mr. Belcher. Who paid for it?
Mr. Morton. Nobody that I know. I never paid for it.
Mr. Belcher. The C & O Railway Co. and all their men were very friendly to the operators in that district, were they not?
Mr. Morton. I think they were.
Mr. Belcher. Is it not a matter of fact that they furnished trains whenever the operators desired them for their men?
Mr. Vinson. Is that in issue before the committee?
The Chairman. I think it is a pertinent question.
Mr. Vinson. All right.
Mr. Morton. How is that?
Mr. Belcher. Is it not a fact that whenever the coal operators desired it they got a train and also the men to man it?
Mr. Morton. This is the only occasion that I ever called up the railroad for that purpose. I very frequently - yesterday afternoon I got the C. & O. to furnish me an engine to ride from the mines to the station to catch the late train, because there was no passenger train.
Mr. Belcher. Then, so far as you know, every request that you or the operators have made up there has been complied with by the C. & O. Railroad?
Mr. Morton. Certainly. I know of no such request, however, further than I have stated.
Mr. Belcher. This train did leave here at night?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Mr. Belcher. And you did put on 30 Winchesters?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. You say you got those from Loewenstein's?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Mr. Belcher. That is a matter of fact, but where did Loewenstein get them?
Mr. Morton. They were some of the guns that had been taken up by the military commission when the martial law was declared and had not been delivered back to the owners, and were stored, as I understand it, at Loewenstein's for convenience.
Mr. Belcher. Is it not a matter of fact that you did not go the State department to secure the guns yourself but induced Loewenstein & Sons, of this city, to go to the armory and get those Winchesters first, and then have Loewenstein & Sons deliver them to you?
Mr. Morton. I went to Loewenstein's office or to their store to get those guns where they were packed up with a number of others. They were brought from no other point whatever except when I first went to Loewenstein's the guns were in his warehouse, and I went up and looked at them and picked out the cases containing the guns and then went and got a taxicab and put them in and took them to the train.
Mr. Belcher. At that time the governor had never turned over any of the miners' guns to them and has not done so yet?
Mr. Morton. He has not turned them back?
Mr. Belcher. No.
Mr. Morton. He turned a great many of them back because I saw them go in there and get them. He has a lot of mine I have not been able to get.
Mr. Belcher. At that time had the governor turned over to the miners any of the guns they had confiscated or taken away?
Mr. Morton. I think a great many of them; yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. Who loaded those guns after the train left Pratt?
Mr. Morton. One of the men on the train; I don't rmember; I think it was Birchfield, if I recollect right.
Mr. Belcher. Birchfield was a Chesapeake & Ohio man?
Mr. Morton. Yes.
Mr. Belcher. Do you know Philip Walker, a brother of Samuel L. Walker, of the military commission?
Mr. Morton. I think I know him; yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. Is it not a matter of fact that when the train left Pratt going up the creek that Philip Walker loaded these guns?
Mr. Morton. Well, now, I was under the impression it was Birchfield. It may have been Philip Walker. I would not say he did not.
Mr. Belcher. He loaded one and gave it to you?
Mr. Morton. Somebody loaded one and gave it to me; yes, sir. I do not remember which one it was.
Mr. Belcher. It was not the sheriff, was it?
Mr. Morton. I do not think so.
Mr. Belcher. So far as you know, the sheriff did not fire a single shot?
Mr. Morton. I do not know at all, sir, whether he did or not. He had a gun. I do not know what he did with it.
Mr. Belcher. Do you know whether any one of the sheriff's men fired a gun on that occasion?
Mr. Morton. No; I do not know anybody who fired a gun except myself, sir.
Mr. Belcher. How far was it below Holly Grove that these lights were turned out?
Mr. Morton. My impression is it was a short time after we left the station. I could not tell you.
Mr. Belcher. Is it not a matter of fact, that they were turned out just below Holly Grove?
Mr. Morton. My impression is, I would not be positive about that, but it was some little time before we came to Holly Grove. But you go in on the junction there, and it is only a mile and a half to Holly Grove, so it was in that period. I could not tell you.
Mr. Belcher. Did you notice where Lee Calvin was sitting before the lights were turned out?
Mr. Morton. Lee Calvin was sitting up towards the front of the coach, my recollection is.
Mr. Belcher. Was he nearest the window?
Mr. Morton. I could not tell you; I don't remember.
Mr. Belcher. You will not say that he was not?
Mr. Morton. I will not say that he was not or that he was; no, sir.
Mr. Belcher. On what side was he sitting, going up?
Mr. Morton. My recollection is that he was sitting on the right-hand side, but I would not be positive about that. I know the shells he showed me, and told me that he had shot, were on the right-hand side of the coach.
Senator Kenyon. He told you he had shot some shells, did he?
Mr. Morton. He says, "Mr. Morton, didn't we give them hell?" And I says, "Is that so!" and he pointed out to me a bunch of shells that he said was what he had done.
Mr. Belcher. In answer to Senator Martine's question, you said it was very dark and you could not tell who was doing the talking.
Mr. Morton. I said that there was a general talking in there, but when we got by those men a man came in with a lantern, and this man Calvin has a very strong voice, and he pointed out these shells to this man with the lantern, and there were some others; but it was pretty close up to Mucklow.
Mr. Belcher. Where were the lights put on?
Mr. Morton. As matter of fact, as I recollect, coming back through the coach after leaving Holly Grove and before we got to Mucklow, some one came in with a lantern, and I think Mr. Little had a little flashlight.
Mr. Belcher. At the time they came back with the lantern, did Lee Calvin have a gun?
Mr. Morton. I do not know, sir, whether he did or not.
Mr. Belcher. At any time on that trip from Pratt to Mucklow, did you see Lee Calvin with a gun in his hand?
Mr. Morton. I do not recall that I did.
Mr. Belcher. You heard his statement that he did not have a gun, did you now?
Mr. Morton. No; I was not present.
Mr. Belcher. And don't you know, as a matter of fact, that the sheriff did have a gun, and there did not seem to be any cartridges in it?
Mr. Morton. I heard the sheriff say so; yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. Did you not also hear Phil Little say he had a gun with no cartridges in it?
Mr. Morton. I did. I understood - well, I will not tell what I heard.
Senator Kenyon. What was the sheriff doing with a gun with no cartridges in it?
Mr. Morton. My understanding was that he got the gun and thought that it was loaded, and he found out afterwards he was mistaken about it. I f you want my information on that -
Senator Kenyon. No; you have answered it.
Mr. Morton. There is another matter, sir, in the same line. The sheriff told me that while the shooting was going on, Mr. Little was in the same fix and his gun was not loaded, and he had this flashlight trying to put the cartridges in it.
Mr. Belcher. Yes; that is true. Now, how far is it from the lower end of Holly Grove to the upper end?
Mr. Morton. I suppose about a quarter of a mile.
Mr. Belcher. About a quarter of a mile?
Mr. Morton. I would think so.
Mr. Belcher. I will ask you if it is not a fact that the machine gun and the shooting did not cease from that train from the moment they started at the lower end until they got beyond the town?
Mr. Morton. I think there was shooting from the train from the very beginning until they passed the town. My recollection is, or at least the impression made upon me at the time was, that the machine gun did not get to work until we had gotten pretty well through the town. I will not make that as a statement, but that is my impression.
Mr. Belcher. You do not mean to tell this subcommittee that there was an army of men from the lower end of that town to the upper end, a quarter of a mile in extent, firing at that train?
Mr. Morton. I will say that I saw - I do not know how many of them - I was on the right-hand side of the train going up and did not see a single light in Holly Grove except the flashes from the guns. These men were standing out, and when the gun would flash I could see the man; his entire person outlined and saw him shooting. This was going all the way up. There was somebody all the way along shooting at this train.
Mr. Belcher. That was a surprise to you; you did not think there was going to be any shooting?
Mr. Morton. I certainly did not until I got to that cabin and saw those women and children down there, as I stated heretofore.
Mr. Belcher. Why did you take those 30 Winchesters, starting out from here?
Mr. Morton. I am mighty glad you brought that question up. I made the statement very plain in my direct examination that these people were calling on us from Mucklow; that they were being attacked and asked for help.
Mr. Belcher. But I understood you to say certain people at Mucklow had been fired upon and you were going up there to give aid.
Mr. Morton. Absolutely.
Mr. Belcher. And did not think of any trouble that would occur before you got there?
Mr. Morton. Certainly I did not, until the sheriff came into the train at Paint Creek, where we took the Paint Creek Branch, and stated that a brakeman had told him not to go up there with the train, that the train was going to be fired on.
Mr. Belcher. And this brakeman had been told by certain mine guards?
Mr. Morton. He did not tell me who had told him.
Mr. Belcher. The miners considered all these trainmen as their enemies, did they?
Mr. Morton. I think not. Do you mean on that train?
Mr. Belcher. Yes.
Mr. Morton. On that special?
Senator Kenyon. Before you pass that, I would like to know how the people up there knew the train was coming. Do you know?
Mr. Morton. During these troubles, Senator, there has been a use of the telephones up there, and every telephone message which has gone back and forth on either side has been taken more or less by the other side. There are a great many party lines up there, you know.
Mr. Belcher. Did the miners have any telephones?
Mr. Morton. They had access to some.
Mr. Belcher. Where?
Mr. Morton. At Hansford specifically. I think you will get testimony on that later.
Mr. Belcher. At Holly Grove did they?
Mr. Morton. Not that I know of. We sometimes thought they tapped the wires.
Mr. Belcher. Was there any telephone communication that morning or that night relative to the intention to go out to Mucklow with the special train?
Mr. Morton. I really could not tell you.
Mr. Belcher. Then, so far as you know, there had been no communication over the telephone or otherwise that would have informed the miners that that particular train was coming and when it was coming?
Mr. Morton. I have no information to that effect, Mr. Belcher; certainly not.
Mr. Belcher. How long did you remain at Mucklow the next day?
Mr. Morton. I came out on the morning train leaving there next morning.
Mr. Belcher. At what time?
Mr. Morton. About 8 o'clock - half past 8.
Mr. Belcher. You went up there and got there about 11 o'clock?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. And come out the next morning at 8 o'clock?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belcher. When did you next go back?
Mr. Morton. The following Monday morning, I think.
Mr. Belcher. That was three or four days later?
Mr. Morton. This was on Saturday morning, and I went back Monday. Now, I can explain my coming back to Charleston if you like.
Senator Kenyon. You are not asked for that. You want to get through.
Mr. Morton. I wanted to say that the sheriff insisted that I come back with his deputy and go to the governor for help.
. . . .
Mr. Belcher. Now, one other question. This train that was sent up there on the night of February 7 was not paid for by the sheriff of Kanawha County, and neither did he furnish the arms or ammunition or any part of them that was on that train?
Mr. Morton. I have no knowledge of his paying for it. I take it for granted he did not; and he paid nothing for the arms and ammunition, and he did not furnish them.
Mr. Belcher. That is all.
Senator Martine. From whom did you first learn there were women and children in the tents along in Mucklow?
Mr Morton. In Holly Grove, you mean?
Senator Martine. Yes, where the shooting was.
Mr. Morton. The shooting was at Holly Grove. Is that where you mean?
Senator Martine. Well, wherever the gatling gun was moving.
Mr. Morton. When did I first learn of it?
Senator Martine. Yes.
Mr. Morton. Well, I have known of it for a year.
Senator Martine. Then at this time you knew reasonably that they were there?
Mr. Morton. I knew they had been there, but from the indications I saw I thought they had moved out.
Senator Martine. You could not see - it was dark?
Mr. Morton. Absolutely dark; yes, sir.
Senator Martine. You could not see that they had vacated those shacks and tents?
Mr. Morton. No, sir; I could not.
Senator Martine. And the last time you did see it they were there?
Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; the last time I had seen it.
Senator Martine. And who was it that suggested there were women and children in those tents?
Mr. Morton. When the shooting began, do you mean?
Senator Martine. When you were on the train or any time during the shooting.
Mr. Morton. I don't remember any such statement having been made - it may have been - I won't say it was not.
Senator Martine. State briefly who was the sheriff on the train?
Mr. Morton. Bonner H. Hill.
Senator Martine. State your conversation briefly with Bonner H. Hill at that particular time.
Mr. Morton. You mean after the shooting was over or before it?
Senator Martine. Well, we will say, after it was over.
Mr. Morton. I don't recall having any at all after we got to Mucklow.
Senator Martine. Did you have any conversation with him?
Mr. Morton. I take it for granted I did. There was a great number on this train, and everybody was very excited.
Senator Martine. Was there expression of satisfaction of the execution that had been accomplished on that trip?
Mr. Morton. I don't know that there was.
Senator Martine. You won't swear that you didn't have a conversation with the sheriff?
Mr. Morton. Not by any means.
Senator Martine. You will still adhere to your statement that you were entirely satisfied with the execution?
Mr. Morton. Now, Senator, I don't think you ought to undertake -
Mr. Vinson. I must protest absolutely against this method. I have sat here quietly and tried to be as decent and dignified as I know how, but I submit that if this thing is to go on I must protest to this committee.
The Chairman. We will recess until 2 o'clock. The time for recess is up. At 2 o'clock we will meet again.
(Thereupon, at 12:40 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until 2 o'clock p. m.)
AFTER RECESS.
(At the expiration of the recess the committee reassembled.)
Mr. Vinson. I want to ask Mr. Morton just one more question, as soon as we can get him in here.
Mr. Knight. I will call Mr. Fenton while you are waiting for Mr. Morton.
Mr. Vinson. Yes; we do not want to delay the investigation. Mr. Fenton may take the stand and we will call Mr. Morton when he gets in.
. . . .
TESTIMONY OF QUINN MORTON - Recalled.
Quinn Morton was recalled as a witness, and having been previously sworn, testified further as follows:
Mr. Vinson. I have understood that Mr. Calvin testified that shortly after the battle on the train, which you have testified about this forenoon, you said to him or to the sheriff on the train, "Let's go back and give them hell again" or words to that effect. Please state whether or not that is true.
Mr. Morton. It is not.
Mr. Vinson. That is all.
Senator Kenyon. That is all.