John Wesley Meadows testimony
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
J. W. MEADOWS
DIRECT EXAMINATION By Mr. Ossenten.
Q: Have you been sworn as a witness in this case?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Tell the Court and Jury your name?
A: My full name is John Wesley Meadows.
Q: Where do you live?
A: At Hernshaw, Kanawha County.
Q: West Va.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What is your age, Mr. Meadows?
A: Sixty-one September the 21st last year.
Q: What business do you follow?
A: I farm a little and work in the mines a little.
Q: How long have you been working around the mines?
A: I have been working around the mines for I suppose twenty-five years, in and around the mines.
Q: Where were you living in August and September of last year, 1921?
A: At Hernshaw.
Q: Tell the jury whether or not you were a member of a local organization known as the United Mine Workers of America?
A: I was.
Q: What was the number of your local?
A: It has been so long since I attended I am not right positive, but I think it was 2339 Marmet Local.
Q: How far is Marmet from the place you reside?
A: A little over three miles.
Q: Do you recall being in Charleston on or about the 7th day of August, 1921, when there was a meeting on the Capitol Grounds?
A: I was there, but I do not remember the date. I was there at a meeting.
Q: Do you know Frank Keeney?
A: I have seen him a few times.
Q: Did you know him at that time?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you know Fred Mooney at that time?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Do you know Bill Blizzard the defendant?
A: No sir, I would not know him if I saw him.
Q: You say you attended that meeting.
A: Yes sir.
Q: I will ask you to tell the Jury whether or not you heard Frank Keeney make a speech on that occasion.
A: Yes sir.
Q: Can you recall in substance anything that he said at that meeting with reference to the County of Mingo?
A: To the best of my knowledge he made the statement that he was going to organize Logan and Mingo or fill the jail so full they could not feed them.
Q: Were you at Marmet on or about the 24th day of August, the occasion being when Mother Jones made a speech?
A: I don't remember the date, but I heard her make two speeches one in the evening and one the next morning.
Q: Was that after you heard Mr. Keeney's speech?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Tell the Jury the time at Marmet or near Marmet that you heard Mother Jones speak how many persons were gathered there at that time.
A: Well I suppose there were ten or twelve thousand people on the creek at that time.
Q: How far was the point where Mother Jones made her speech from the County road on Lens Creek?
A: From the mouth of the Creek.
Q: Yes sir.
A: Something over four miles.
Q: In what direction did you go to this meeting, up Logan Creek or down.
A: Up, above my house about a mile.
Q: Tell the Jury what you heard Mother Jones say in her speech.
A: To the best of my recollection she said quote "Boys this is a wrong move and you had better listen to Mother Jones and return home."
Q: Did you hear her say anything else?
A: Yes sir, she told them that she would be back there again the next morning and that she would bring some good news.
Q: Did she return the next morning?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Were you at the meeting held the next morning?
A: Yes sir I was there, I wanted to hear the good news.
Q: About how many persons were assembled at that time?
A: I can't say exactly, there was so many from the head of the Creek. I suppose about the same number as in the evening.
Q: Did you hear her make a speech on that occasion?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Tell the Jury what you heard her say as near as you can remember.
A: She still told them it was a wrong move that they were making, and that they had better return to their homes and let the Law take its course, and she said if they would do that, she said "if they will not give us justice I will go with you boys and we will go there and we will whip hell out of them." Then she brought out a telegram supposed to be from President Harding.
Q: Did you hear her read the telegram.
A: Yes sir.
Q: Do you remember the substance of it.
A: It stated that if all the parties assembled would return to their homes he would have the guard removed from Mingo.
Q: After she read the telegram did anything occur, if so tell the Jury what it was.
A: Well about the time she wound up Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney stepped out.
Q: What Mr. Keeney and what Mr. Mooney?
A: Frank Keeney and Fred Mooney. Mr. Keeney demanded to see the telegram.
Q: Did you see anything of the defendant, Bill Blizzard, at that time?
A: No sir. I would not have known him.
Q: You did not know him at that time?
A: No and I don't know him now.
Q: Well what was said and done then?
A: Well Mr. Keeney he said that after he would not let him see the telegram that the telegram was a fake and so was Mother Jones, and that to pay no attention to her and to go on.
Q: Did he say anything further, with reference to going on?
A: That is about all I heard. There was quite a confusion there and I didn't hear much more. A great many wanted to go back. There was a guard line with arms thrown out below and they would let no one go through.
Q: What do you mean by a guard line?
A: Men with guns.
Q: What kind of guns?
A: All kinds.
Q: Describe them.
A: Rifles, high power rifles and Winchesters.
Q: About how many men were thrown out for guard line?
A: A good many, I could not say how many but it reached from hill to hill.
Q: About how many of the ten or twelve thousand men were thrown out in the guard line with rifles?
A: I expect fifty or seventy-five or maybe more.
Q: How many of these men had guns?
A: I suppose all of them had, all had that I seen.
Q: How many of the men assembled there at that time were armed?
A: Well I don't know, all of them there didn't have arms in sight.
Q: Where were their arms?
A: I suppose in the weeds handy.
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: What to the best of your knowledge proportion of the men were armed?
A: I suppose ten thousand anyway to the best of my knowledge.
Q: Did you hear Fred Mooney say anything while this was going on?
A: No sir.
Q: Did you see anything take place when Mr. Keeney went up to Mother Jones?
A: Nothing more than Mr. Keeney threw up his hand in making a gesture.
Q: What did Mother Jones do?
A: She kinda threw her head back.
Q: What became of Mr. Mooney and Mr. Keeney after that?
A: I don't know, I went on home and don't know anything more.
Q: Were they there when you left?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How did you get through the guard line?
A: A friend of mine was there and my daughter was with me and I took her to his automobile and we went out in that.
Q: Did you hear Keeney say anything else about the telegram?
A: No.
Q: Did you hear him say anything about going on?
A: Well about the time he talked with Mother Jones he said "we will just go on this telegram is a fake and so is Mother Jones".
Q: At the time Mother Jones made this speech that you refer to was there any action taken by the men with reference to going home?
A: It seemed like it was mixed up but I didn't make any inquiry into this business at all. It was none of my business.
CROSS EXAMINATION
Questions by Mr. Townsend.
Q: Your name is John Wesley?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What did you say your business was?
A: I work around the mines a little and farm a little.
Q: Got any other business?
A: Nothing particular.
Q: Are you engaged in other occupation for the purpose of making money?
A: I make a little money otherways sometimes.
Q: What other ways?
A: Different ways.
Q: What other ways do you make money?
A: I make money trading around in different ways.
Q: What do you sell from which you receive money in addition to working around the mines?
A: Stuff off of my place.
Q: What kind?
A: Different kinds.
Q: What different kinds?
A: All kinds of garden truck.
Q: What else?
A: Potatoes and such as that.
Q: Anything else?
A: No sir.
Q: Sell any cider?
A: No.
Q: Sell anything to drink?
A: I don't think I have a right to answer this question.
Objection.
The Court – If he has been convicted of felony that can be shown.
It appears that the witness has not been convicted of felony.
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: How far from Marmet do you live?
A: About three miles.
Q: How long have you lived there?
A: Been living there since December 1904.
Q: Do you know where the Corporation line of Marmet is as you go up the creek.
A: Corporation?
Q: Yes.
A: About two hundred yards above the bridge, it includes that house on the right.
Q: About two hundred yards up the creek?
A: I think so.
Q: How far from the corporate line was it to the point where these men were assembled?
A: It was between three and four miles.
Q: What was the nearest post office?
A: Hernshaw.
Q: They were assembled then in the vicinity of Hernshaw?
A: The upper camp was and the lower camp was near the corporate limits. The camp where Mother Jones spoke was the Hernshaw camp.
Q: That is where the assemblage of people were?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What day of the month was it you were up there?
A: I cannot say exactly, along the later part of August.
Q: I understood you to say there were from ten to twelve thousand men there.
A: Yes sir on the creek at that time.
Q: Were most of them at the meeting?
A: I expect they were.
Q: Now Mr. Meadows what kind of arms did you see there that day?
A: Well I say all kinds, rifles, pistols, different kind of rifles and different kind of pistols.
Q: See any machine guns?
A: No I didn't see any machine guns at that time.
Q: Were these men camping at that point?
A: I think there was one camp there.
Q: Did they have any tent[s]?
A: No.
Q: You didn't see any tents?
A: No.
Q: You didn't hear any brass bands?
A: No.
Q: You didn't see any military formation?
A: No.
Q: You didn't see any captains?
A: No.
Q: You didn't see any mark of distinction as applied to the different class of men?
A: No.
Q: You never saw anyone salute any other man as military people do?
A: No.
Q: You didn't see any camp fires?
A: No I was not around where I seen any fires. I suppose they built fires but I was just merely there to hear a speech.
Q: You live on the creek?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You saw other men coming in there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How did they come?
A: They come up the creek.
Q: Did they come in bunches?
A: Sometimes there would be two or three or four in a bunch and sometimes there was just a few. One night there was forty automobiles passed by my house. Some in the county road and some on the railroad.
Q: Were most of them on the railroad?
A: Yes, there were just a few walking on the county road. Most of them walked on the railroad and sometimes there were three or four together and some eight or ten feet behind them there would be three or four more.
Q: When did you hear that Mother Jones was going to make a speech?
A: I heard it about twelve o'clock of the evening she was going to speak.
Q: And you went to hear it?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And you went back the next morning to hear her?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And that is what the other went for is it not?
A: There was a great many there that went to hear that speech.
Q: From what point or place did Mother Jones deliver the speech, was she on a platform, in an automobile or on the ground?
A: She was not on the ground, she was either in a buggy or on a platform.
Q: Where did you see Frank Keeney with reference to where she was?
A: He came down by the side of her.
Q: Right close to her?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Was she in an automobile at that time?
A: No, I don't think she was. I think she was on a platform or in a buggy. The crowd was between where I was and her and I could not tell what she was standing on, she was standing on something though so she was up higher than the others.
Q: Did you see Keeney go up to this platform by the side of Mother Jones?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did he get up on the platform?
A: He stepped up close to her.
Q: Did he get on the elevation or whatever it was?
A: He got up close to her and reached up his hand.
Re-Direct Examination.
By Mr. Ossenten.
Q: How long had the men been on the street before this particular day?
A: They had been assembling there below hog vine hill for several days.
Q: Were you down in that neighborhood the next day after Mother Jones' meeting?
A: I don't remember that I was.
Q: Did you see any men there the next day or do you know where they were?
A: I don't know where they were. I don't think I was away from home the next day.
Q: Mr. Townsend asked you if you saw any machine guns on that day and you said not there. Did you see any machine guns while they were there?
A: I saw something, it was in a leather case and a man said it was part of a machine gun.
Objection.
Q: (By Court) Who was it had this leather case?
A: I didn't know him.
Q: Was he around with the rest of them?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did he appear to be one of them?
A: Yes, sir, he appeared to be. I never heard his name at all.
Objection overrruled.
Re-Cross Examination. By Mr. Townsend.
Q: Do you know Bennie Morris?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Have you had any conversation with him recently about this affair?
A: I saw him last night.
Q: Here in Charles Town?
A: No.
Q: Where?
A: Over at the hotel called Hill Top.
Q: In Harpers Ferry?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Do you know a man by the name of Price who lives at Hernshaw?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What is his name?
A: W. M. Price.
Q: Have you seen him since you have been here?
A: W. M. Price?
Q: Yes.
A: Yes, sir, I have seen him.
Q: Have you talked to him?
A: Yes, sir, he boards there where I do.
Q: Where do you board?
A: At the Jefferson.
Q: Who first spoke to you about coming to this trial?
A: First spoke to me about coming?
Q: Yes.
A: Well, I don't know as I could tell you that. I was called in the office down there on Capitol Street one day and there was some gentlemen there, it was in Mr. Jarrett's office and they taken me in there and asked me some questions.
Q: That was Bennie Morris, was it not?
A: No.
Q: Do you know who it was?
A: No, I know who took me in there.
Q: Who took you in there?
A: Clark Martin.
Q: Who paid your way over here?
A: I came through on that special.
Q: Who paid your way?
A: I understood it was a special made up to bring the witnesses.
Q: You did not pay your way did you?
A: No, sir, it was a special train come through and taken all the witnesses. There were about a hundred and twenty-five and nobody paid.
Q: Who was with you in that meeting on Capitol Street?
A: Well, I don't know who the men were.
Q: Where did they take you?
A: In Mr. Jarrett's office I told you.
Q: Did he talk to you up there?
A: Yes, sir. In that private room.
Q: Anyone in there except you?
A: There were two men in there, but I don't know either one of them. I heard afterwards one of them was Lon Kelly. I don't know whether it was or not.
Q: (By Mr. Ossenten) You spoke of Lon Kelly, is that the former United States District Attorney of Charleston?
A: I suppose it was, I don't know.