John Brinkman testimony
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
JOHN BRINKMAN, a witness of lawful age, being first duly sworn, deposes and says: Questions by Mr. Ossington:
Q: Have you been sworn as a witness in this case?
A: I have.
Q: Tell the jury your name?
A: My name is Jack Brinkman.
Q: How old are you?
A: 32 years old.
Q: Were you in Danville, Boone county, at any time during the miners march, last year?
A: I was.
Q: What were you doing at Danville?
A: I was with the Old Kentucky Shows, then showing in Danville the week the miners marched through there.
Q: Did you see any of the marchers at the time they passed through?
A: I did.
Q: Were you there on the day an army officer came up there and there was a meeting in the Ball Park at Danville?
A: Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney turned the men back at Madison and they held a meeting at the Ball Park that afternoon.
Q: Was you at that meeting? At the Ball Park?
A: No sir.
Q: Did you go over to the Ball Park?
A: I went over to the Ball Park in company with others from the show, we couldn't get in.
Q: Why couldn't you get in?
A: They had guards posted there. It was only supposed to be for miners.
Q: After the meeting was over, did you see the crowd after thy came out of the Ball Park?
A: They left the Ball Park and came to Danville.
Q: At the point at Madison where Keeney and Mooney brought the crowd back to Danville, did you see the men assembled at that point?
A: The men had been marching through there. They headed the march over there at Danville.
Q: How many men would you estimate was in the assembly?
A: That evening, when the show opened, there was about 2,000 armed men in Danville.
Q: Did you observe the character of the arms that they had?
A: They all seemed to be plentifully supplied with pistols and high powered rifles.
Q: After the meeting at the Ball Park, will you tell the jury what you did and what happened, just in your own way?
A: When the show opened that evening in Danville, they had assembled there in Danville from the Ball Park, where they held their meeting that afternoon. The crowd, I estimate, of about 2,000 men. And the crowd seemed to be orderly enough. They patronized the show - the different concessions. After the show had closed that night, about 11 o'clock, there was a train brought down from Clothier in charge of a man - I later learned his name was Lewis White, and he made the statement and spoke to the men gathered there - that deputies from Logan County had crossed the mountain and were killing women and children in Blair and called for volunteers to go up on the train. Some of the men that were in charge of the miners that had gathered in Danville argued with this man and told him that Keeney had told them to back - that was orders from Washington and he would provide a train to come to Danville in the morning to take them back to their respective homes. And Lewis White said he didn't give a damn about Keeney or Mooney or any of them, that thugs were in Blair killing women and children. When the crowd had assembled around the depot in Danville, in company with two other men, I left the show ground and went to the station. While standing there, I was accosted by several men, one of them displaying a pistol, and was told to get on the train. I told the men I did not belong to the miners, that I belonged to the show, I had no business up there. And he asked me if I was with them and for them, and I said "certainly". He said you get on the train or else - I got on the train.
Q: What kind of a train was that?
A: It was composed on an engine and about 8 passenger coaches and a baggage coach. After getting on the train, I was given a rifle - a 41 calibre Swiss and three shells. I tried to put one shell in the barrel and it fell through.
Q: Where did you go from there on that train?
A: To Blair.
Q: What county is Blair in?
A: Logan County. During the ride to Blair on the train that night, I saw men made to get on the train - men that didn't want to go, but, nevertheless, they had to. We arrived in Blair, and detrained there and we were provided with sandwiches and coffee, and there were guards thrown out so no one could leave. A day or so later - When we arrived in Blair, I found that Lewis White, the man that had brought up on the train, was in charge of the defences - the so-called defence of Blair. After we had been provided with sandwiches and coffee, we scattered out around the houses for shelter, where we could sleep. The next day, which was Saturday, after having slept at a house, I came down to where the general assembly was, or where the men hung out, which was in front of the school house. The school house was later made headquarters for the invaders. Well, there wasn't anything occurred that day that amounted to much. The next day, being Sunday, that afternoon a man, whose name I later learned was Jim Morrison, I believe, secretary of one of the Locals in Blair, came in on the train with ammunition.
Q: About what quantity of ammunition did he have, give the jury some idea?
A: I would judge 1500 rounds of assorted cartridges - pistols and different caliber rifles, that was sorted out. Sunday afternoon, the word was brought to Blair that the deputies and a Company of State Police had came down Beech Creek and had had a clash with the miners, and that they was several miners killed as well as deputies and State Police, and the state police had retreated. There was talk then of going over the hill, but it was stopped, and they done nothing more than to throw out outposts up in the mountain. Monday, we learned that four deputies with a machine gun and a quantity of ammunition had been captured by the miners and were held captives at Beech Creek. The men then seemed eager to go. Wednesday, if I am not mistaken in the day, there was a new Studebaker car came into Blair. It was halted on the commons there by the guards, and a man got out and went into the school, which was headquarters then, and delivered a quantity of ammunition.
Q: Did you hear that man say anything at the time he delivered the ammunition, if so, tell the jury what it was?
A: He spoke to the men assembled there, and word was sent to the men around the houses, to assemble and gather on the common at headquarters. That man made the speech, and the outstanding remarks in substance were: that "you have what you have been waiting for, now, go and get them."
Q: Would you know that man if you were to see him?
A: I would.
Q: Can you point him out in the Court room?
A: The man was Mr. Blizzard.
Q: The defendant?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Can you give the jury some idea of the quantity of ammunition he brought there in the Studebaker?
A: A large quantity. It was given to Jim Morrison and others I did not know, and was issued out to the men there.
Q: Did you get any part of that ammunition?
A: I was given a gun - a 30 Remington out of the lot, and I had ammunition for it, but there was men there with 45 - 70, 41 Swiss'es and Winchester's who had no ammunition, and they was given some there at headquarters at the school house.
Q: Was that the same ammunition Blizzard brought up there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Then what happened?
A: There was two columns formed.
Q: How soon was that after the ammunition was issued?
A: Thirty five or 40 minutes - two columns formed there of riflemen and men with shotguns and pistols, and a man by the name of Wilburn -
Q: What was his given name - did you learn after?
A: The Rev. Wilburn - was in charge of the column I was in, and a man whose name I did not know was in charge of the other.
Q: How many men was with the crowd of Wilburn's - the one you were in?
A: When we started there was 110 or 15.
Q: What did you do when you formed this company or body of men, under the leadership of Wilburn?
A: We proceeded into the hills that Wednesday afternoon. We slept in the mountains that night, and the next morning about daybreak, the firing commenced over on the other side of the mountain, across the gap. We advanced, and we met a body of men that we did not know. They allowed us to get close to them -
Q: Before you get to that point, I want to ask you to tell the jury whether or not you had any understanding or agreement as to a pass word when you started into the mountain?
A: The password at that time, when we were challenged was: "Where to?" and the reply would be "Mingo," but the password, after the first clash in the hills, was changed, and then you would be challenged thus: "Who comes?" your reply would be: "I come creeping."
Q: Go ahead where you left off - the body of men under the leadership of Wilburn - whom did you meet on the hill?
A: We met this body of men. We were marching single file. We got close to them and our leader was asked by one of the men (the man I learned later was named Gore) "Who are you?" and Wilburn replied by asking him who he was. And Gore again asked him who he was and who we were, and Wilburn replied and said: "Give me the pass word." Gore was asked twice to give the password, and Gore and the two men that I learned later were named Munsey and Cafago answered in unison "Amen" and when they said "Amen", the firing immediately started. We fired the first shot, there is no doubt.
Q: What happened to these three men when this shooting began by your people?
A: The man I learned was Cafago, and the man by the name of Munsey and the man by the name of Gore - Cafago and Munsey fell. They didn't fire a shot. Gore raised his rifle and he was knocked over by a ball, but he got up and the man was hit again, but Gore did shoot twice, I think.
Q: How many shots had been fired at Gore before he got into action?
A: They was clustered about the Leader, Mr. Wilburn, about half a dozen men, in my opinion, they all fired at Gore.
Q: How close were you to these men during the shooting?
A: I was in the column and from where Wilburn stood to where I was at, should be about 25 to 30 feet, not more, probably not that much.
Q: How near was your body of men to the man Gore and his body of men at the time the shooting began?
A: The leader was from the man that had challenged us, not more than six feet. Cafago, I should say, was about 15 feet from me. And Munsey wasn't more than 4 or 5 feet from some of the men opposite him.
Q: What time in the day was it that this occurred?
A: 5:30 in the morning. Good day light.
Q: Tell the jury what happened after that in that connection?
A: After the action started, I fell into the weeds. There was a negro standing alongside of me and as I fell into the weeds, he was shot from behind. The ball hit him in the small of the back and came out between the shoulder blade and the clavicle.
Q: Was he shot from the direction of in front or the rear of your men?
A: From down over the hill.
Q: Where the miners were?
A: Well, hardly. The miners were marching in a column, and that came from an angle.
Q: Tell what you did then?
A: When the firing ceased, I went to the head of the column where they were clustered, and saw the man that I later learned was named Munsey. Munsey had been shot through the neck and through the torso by high powered bullets, and he was laying there.
Q: Was he dead or alive?
A: He was alive.
Q: Tell what occurred then?
A: He said: "Boys, you have shot the wrong man." It was my opinion at that time that he was under the impression, that he thought we were his men. A man I know by the name of Henry Kitchen reached up with a 401 calibre rifle and shot the man through the brain.
Q: What did Munsey say, if anything, in connection with the statement "You've got the wrong man?"
A: He asked us not to shoot him any more.
Q: What did this other man say, if anything?
A: "We've got him - God damned son of a bitch and thug."
Q: How close was he to this man when he fired the shot?
A: The muzzle of his rifle was eight inches from the man's head.
Q: Describe to the jury where it struck the man and the effect?
A: The shot struck the man right over the left eye, and Munsey's head, when the shot entered, jumped from the ground four or five inches, from the effect of this ball. I was standing at the man's head. His head was right at my feet. Then somebody made the remark that this negro had been shot, and I volunteered to carry him off the hill.
Q: One minute now, while they were up near the body of Munsey, did you see the body of either of the other men?
A: Yes, I saw Cafago's body. I didn't see Gore's body. I helped to carry the negro off the hill. There was four in the party, only one man that I know was in the party. That was a man by the name of Jess Wilburn. There was a boy with us about 18 years old, and this negro had been shot, and the shot had went through the lungs and he was bleeding inside and in the position we were carrying him, the blood couldn't come from the wound, and the man was conscious, and he asked us to lay him down, in such a manner that the blood would pour out of the wound. We did so, and quite a quantity of blood came from the wound. When this boy got his first glimpse of the wound and saw this blood he fainted and we had to leave him there. This boy fainted along the trail, and he was unable to go along with us. We carried this negro over the hill to the doctor's office and he died when he put him on the table to bandage him.
Q: What did you do then after that?
A: I went over to Wilburn's house.
Q: What Wilburn?
A: The Rev. Wilburn.
Q: Is that the same Wilburn you referred to as leading the party of men that killed these men?
A: Yes sir. He was still back in the mountains with this body of men, and we told them there what had happened. So that day about 11 o'clock, Wilburn brought his body of men out of the hills. There was an assembly called -
Q: Wait one minute right there. Did you hear him say anything, or what did he have and his party, when they came out of the hills, that they didn't have when they went in?
Objection.
THE COURT: I think they could inquire into anything that happened. I think the object is to put the jury just as fully into the possession of the events that occurred at that time, as though they were eye witnesses.
MR. TOWNSEND: If this evidence is offered for the purpose of establishing the overt act, then we object. If it is for the purpose of establishing the conspiracy, then we have no objection.
A: When the firing had ceased up there, there was a rush made to the bodies for their arms, and Wilburn, himself -
Q: Which Wilburn?
A: The Reverend had a 38 calibre special pistol and holster that belonged to John Gore on his own statement.
Q: What did you hear Wilburn say about that?
A: That he had got John Gore's pistol and scabbard.
Objection.
Over ruled.
Exception.
Q: When was it with reference to the time you left up there where these men were killed, that you saw the Rev. Wilburn rush toward those men?
A: As soon as the firing ceased they went to the bodies, and the Rev. Wilburn got Gore's pistol and one of the boys got his rifle. A man by the name of Prior Sharp got his rifle.
Q: Did you see those rifles afterwards?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Where?
A: When they came out of the hills - and they used them when they went back again.
Q: You spoke a while ago of staying all night at Blair, at whose house did you stay - whose place was that?
A: I don't know the man's name - it was between Blair and Soverign.
Q: Where did you stay all night if anywhere, at Blair when you came back after killing Gore, and Cafago and Munsey?
A: The first night after the actual fighting, that I slept in a bed was at Rev. Wilburn's.
Q: After you went down to Blair, helping carry this negro, what did you do next?
A: When they came out of the hills, there was a meeting called at the school house, and the men were informed of the killing of these three men and remarks were made that they had the deputies on the run - one thing and another like that - now would be a good time to finish the job - to go through with what they were going to do - hang Don Chafin, and go along up and unionize Mingo and Logan counties. There was a man then put in charge. A man whose name I could not find out, and he immediately organized a commissary department, hospital with himself in charge of that sector. I knew that there would eventually be trouble over there, arrest and possible conviction -
Objection.
Sustained.
THE COURT You can state what you did.
A: I volunteered for this train -
Q: What train?
A: Supposed to carry troops and ammunition into Blair and Jeffery. I went to Clothier in company with John Wilbur, the boy that got Gore's rifle, and other men I did not know. They commandeered a train at Clothier and proceeded from Clothier to Sproul, and from Sproul up Big Coal River to Racine. And those in charge of the train, informed the people at all the small camps up Big Coal River that we were coming back and also told them they wanted supplies, ammunition and rifles, that they needed them at Blair. We went to Racine and gathered a bunch of men there, and then back to Sproul and from Sproul proceeded to Blair. We picked up at Madison a string of flat cars used to haul logs on. And there was quite a number of them, I do not know the exact number. We came back there with a crowd of men and ammunition. At Five Blocks, below Blair, we met a man by the name of Oscar Pepper and Jim Morrison, and they got on the train and the train proceeded into Blair, and the men detrained at Blair at the depot and were immediately taken care of in the way of food and shelter. I went to Wilburn's and had dinner, and I went out again that night.
Q: What Wilburn - the same Wilburn?
A: The same Wilburn. I made three such trips, with the idea of getting away, but I had no chance to get away. I could have taken a chance but it is doubtful if I would have been successful. The crew was changed after I made the three trips. When they went out again, they found the engine had been withdrawn by the railroad company. From that time, up until the time the Federal troops came into Blair, I was there. I didn't go out into the hills any more, because I didn't care to, and I avoided groups that were armed with rifles because riflemen were the ones they were sending into the hills.
Q: You spoke of making two additional trips down on this train, did you go all the way to Racine on the other two trips?
A: No.
Q: Describe the second and third trips. Tell the jury how many men food and clothing and ammunition were brought back on each trip?
A: One was made to Jeffery after men. That is when the fighting became heavy in the Blair sector, we got a few men down there, not much ammunition. We brought those back. The next time we went down as far as Altman and brough back a bunch of men that came from - I understand - up in the oil fields, down on some creek. We brought them back. We supplied, altogether, I should say 1800 - 2,000 men.
Q: Where was Mr. Blizzard, the defendant, at the time you heard him make the statement?
A: Standing on the porch of the school house.
Q: Did you hear him say anything else in connection with that matter?
A: He said: If any trouble develops from this we will not know each other - nobody shall know who the leaders are, no names shall be mentioned.
Q: How long did he remain on the ground?
A: Blizzard left after the ammunition had been distributed by Morrison and the columns were formed. I didn't see him again.
Q: You say he came up there in a car, what make of car was it?
A: Studebaker - new Studebaker.
Q: Was anything said about that car at that time?
A: I heard remarks made by the men that the Union officers had got the car to keep in touch with the fighting line.
Q: Was there ammunition, guns or food brought in in any way besides by railroad trains?
A: Yes sir, some come up in cars. We were stopped one night when we were going out - a man got on the train and said he was bringing in ammunition and his truck broke down, and wanted to know if we would carry it up.
Q: Did he make any statement of how much ammunition he had?
A: He said 22,500 rounds of assorted ammunition.
Q: You spoke of a railroad, do you know the name of the railroad you commandeered the train on?
A: The Little Coal River Branch of the C and O.
Q: While you were up there with those men, did you visit any stores?
A: I was up there one day when a bunch of men went through John Browning's store.
Q: Who did you say this man's name was that owned the store?
A: I am not positive of his first name, but I know his last name was Browning.
Q: Tell the jury what these men did, in your own way, at that point.
A: One man went in there and told him he needed shoes, but he didn't have any money to pay for them, but the Union would pay for them, and he was armed and he was given them, and he went out and told some of his companions and in a few moments the store was crowded with men, helping themselves.
Q: Did they get anything?
A: They cleaned the store out.
Q: Do you remember any of the articles that were taken from Browning's store?
A: I seen a negro come out of there with a lady's silk gown, and I wondered if he was going to wear that on top of the hill.
Q: Do you know of any other occasion when men went into stores and houses?
A: It was the general rule around there, if you wanted anything and knew where it was at, to go and get it.
Objection to the answer.
THE COURT Whatever he observed there, I think he could tell. If the thing was repeated a great many times, it would be practically impossible to relate each specific instance. I think he could state it in the way he did, and he could be cross examined in regard to it, any exaggeration or anything of that sort, to reduce it to its true proportion.
Exception.
Q: I will ask you this, was that the practice among the men? (This question was not answered.)
Q: About how many men were with your party when these men were killed? A: The party had dwindled down to about thirty five rifle men.
Q: Did you know any of the men at the time?
A: Yes, I know several of them.
Q: Give the jury their names.
A: Pryor Sharp. Frank Wilburn, John Wilburn, Rev. Wilburn, Frank Kitchen, Henry Kitchen and Johnny Henson, they were with the party as well as myself who killed John Gore.
Q: Where were you when the Federal troops on Coal River?
A: I was in bed at the Wilburn house.
Q: When did you learn that they had arrived?
A: They came in about four in the morning -
Q: What time did you get up that morning?
A: I got up then.
Q: What became of your guns that you had at that time?
A: Those of us who were in the Wilburn house, and there were several of us stopping there that night, hid them with our pistols in the attic of the building, as well as the ammunition.
Q: Had you heard that the Federal troops were on the road before that time?
A: Yes, an army officer was there the day before listening to the firing, and he went back.
Q: Was there any understanding about what you would do with your guns if the Federal troops arrived?
A: The men from Cabin Creek said they would take their guns back with them and hide them if they could, but some turned theirs over to the troops, and quite a number who were in the hills surrendered their guns when they met the troops.
Q: Did they say why they did this?
A: Said they did not want to fight the soldiers, but just to protect themselves from the thus and deputies of Logan County.
Q: When did you leave there after the Federal troops came?
A: They came on Sunday, and I left on Wednesday night.
Q: Where did you go then?
A: I went to Clothier and stopped at Clothier that night and slept in a cab in company with a railroad man and then went on the next morning at day break on the freight.
Q: About how many men were with the army at Blair at the time the soldiers came there, altogether?
A: About five thousand men I should say.
Q: Do you know the name of the creek that you were on at the time John Gore was killed?
A: I heard the remark that we were on the Ethel side of the mountain and that it was not far into Logan.
Q: Did you hear anything said about any of the creeks in that section?
A: I am a stranger in those parts and was not acquainted with the names of the hollows or creeks, and I know we were on Little Coal River.
Q: How far was it from the camp where you were to the point where John Gore and D. Munsey were killed?
A: In an air line about two miles.
Q: Where did you go for the first stop from the point where you stayed Wednesday night?
A: I proceeded to Clothier and from there up to Cabin creek.
Q: What did you do there?
A: Some of the folks got me a job as a coal miner, but I am not a coal miner, and I did not stay, but went back to my own trade with the people I was with when I was made to go to Blair.
Q: Where?
A: At Whitesville.
Q: What county is that in?
A: I don't know.
Q: Is it in West Virginia?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do after that?
A: I left Loe Lee's Old Kentucky Show at Eskdale and went with a man who was managers of the "Dunbar Candy Shop Girls." They were playing at Eskdale. We left Eskdale and went to Charleston and played in stock in Charleston for six weeks or more at the Hippodrome under the management of T. L. Pierce. It was there that a capeas from Logan county was served on me by a state official. I was taken to State police headquarters and was asked by Captain Mac Lilly if I had anything to say about the trouble at Blair and I told him what had occurred up there and that night he took me to Huntington and from Huntington I went to Logan, and when I got to Logan I went to the sheriff's office. I came from Huntington by myself. Lt. Lilly went to Charleston and I went to the sheriff's office and he asked me about the trouble, and I told him, and I was then put in jail.
Q: Were there any person of foreign birth with this army?
A: About twenty-five per cent of them.
Q: What nationalities were they?
A: Hungarians, Slavs, and Polacks, most of them.
Q: About how many negroes would you say there were?
A: A small percentage of negroes. Not very many.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TOWNSEND.
Q: How old are you?
A: Thirty two.
Q: Where were you born?
A: In Mineral City, Ohio.
Q: How long have you lived in West Virginia?
A: About two years.
Q: Where have you worked in that time?
A: I have been with Musical Comedy Shows and carnivals.
Q: Is this what you have been doing all the time have been in the state?
A: Yes, with the exception of the time I was in Charleston at the theatre and with the exception of a few months at Omar.
Q: Where is Omar?
A: In Logan County.
Q: I understood you to say you were a miner, did I not?
A: No, you misunderstood me. I said I was not a miner.
Q: Did you ever work in the mines?
A: I have tried to.
Q: Where?
A: At Omar, and at Cavar on Cabin Creek.
Q: When were you at Omar?
A: In September and October, 1921.
Q: How did you happen to go up to Omar?
A: I needed employment, and I heard the town was booming and I went there to get work.
Q: Where did you go from?
A: From Huntington.
Q: Whom did you go with?
A: I went by myself.
Q: Where did you go from Omar?
A: I went over on Tug river.
Q: Where on Tug River did you go?
A: To Centeroy.
Q: And where did you go from Centeroy?
A: I joined a show there, and I can't tell you the names of the different places we went.
Q: What show was it?
A: "Old Kentucky Show", with Joe Lee as Manager.
Q: That was after September and October, 1921?
A: Yes.
Q: How long were you with that show?
A: Until they went into winter quarters.
Q: When was that?
A: I left them before they went into winter quarters a little. We came back on the Norfolk & Western to Kenova, and I left them at Huntington.
Q: Where did you go from Huntington?
A: I don't remember.
Q: What did you work at?
A: I followed my trade of musician.
Q: Where did you follow it?
A: I am sorry I did not make a list of all the different places I have been.
Q: Tell me the name of one place then that you worked after you left Huntington?
A: I worked in Parkersburg for a while.
Q: For whom did you work there?
A: I worked with four boys out of a Pittsburg show. They called themselves the Symphony Quartet.
Q: Did you work there in connection with the show?
A: I played the music for them.
Q: Where did you go from Parkersburg?
A: We busted up there, and there was a short period of unemployment for me.
Q: When did you leave Huntington?
A: I went from Huntington to Omar and was there in September and October, 1921.
Q: What time in September did you go there?
A: I cannot give the exact date.
Q: Was it in the early part of the month?
A: Yes.
Q: Was it somewhere between the first and the tenth of the month?
A: Yes, it was about that time.
Q: Could you say it was on Sept. 1st?
A: No, I could not say that.
Q: Could you say it was on Sept. 2nd?
A: No.
Q: Could you say it was Sept. 3rd?
A: No.
Q: But you could say it was before the tenth?
A: Yes.
Q: Well, how long before the tenth was it?
A: I cannot give you the exact date.
Q: Would you say it was on or about the 7th?
A: It might have been about that time.
Q: Then you say you were in Omar on or about the 7th of September, and you went there from Huntington, and that was about the 7th of September?
A: Yes.
Q: Where did you go from when you went to Huntington?
A: I think I came to Huntington from C________.
Q: Then you must have left C______ on what day in September?
A: About the first, I reckon.
Q: Then you spent from the first to the 7th of September on your way from C______ to Huntington?
A: No, I went from the[re] to Omar.
Q: That occupied your time from Sept. 1st to the 10th?
A: Yes.
Q: You are certain about that?
A: Yes, as far as I can remember.
Q: That is your best recollection?
A: Yes.
Q: You left C_______ September 1st. Where were you just before that?
A: Do I have to give my whole life history?
Q: That is for you to decide. What I want to know is just where you were on Sept. 1, 1921.
A: I had been with the Old Colonial show and they went into winter quarters at Cleveland in August.
Q: What day in August?
A: I don't remember the date.
Q: You say you left C______ on Sept. 1st?
A: It was about the first of September.
Q: Was it on or before the first?
A: I am not certain about that.
Q: It might have been Aug. 31st, might it not?
A: Yes.
Q: Or it might have been the 30th?
A: Possibly.
Q: You are certain you left there about the 29th or 30th or 31st?
A: No, I am certain I left there about the first.
Q: But might have been the day before or the day afterward?
A: Yes.
Q: Where did you go from when you went to Cincinnati?
A: From Cleveland.
Q: Direct to Cincinnati?
A: No I stopped at Columbus.
Q: When you went to Cleveland, then to Columbus and then to Cincinnati?
A: Yes.
Q: How long were you in getting from Cleveland to Columbus and from Columbus to Cincinnati?
A: Several days.
Q: About how many days?
A: I suppose about a week.
Q: Then you spent on the road from Cleveland to Columbus and from Columbus to Cincinnati from about the 24th to the 31st of August?
A: That is about it.
Q: You are practically certain of that?
A: Yes, just about.
Q: Where did you go from when you went to Cleveland?
A: To New Eagle, Penna.
Q: When did you leave New Eagle?
A: We closed in New Eagle and we left New Eagle for Cleveland by way of Pittsburg.
Q: When did you leave New Eagle - can you have me some idea?
A: According to your reasoning, if I left Cleveland on the 24th, I should have left New Eagle on about the 20th of August.
Q: When you went to New Eagle where did you go from?
A: To Monongahela City, Penna.
Q: When did you leave Monongahela City?
A: A week from the time we arrived from New Eagle.
Q: Then left Monongahela City a week prior to the 20th of August, 1921?
A: Yes.
Q: Then you left there the 13th or 14th of August?
A: Yes.
Q: Where were you before you went to Monongahela City?
A: We were at Cannonsburg, Pa.
Q: How long were you on the way from Cannonsburg to Monongahela City?
A: I was travelling with the show and we left Cannonsburg in time to open at Monongahela City Monday night.
Q: Monday night would be August 15th. Then you left Cannonsburg on August 13th?
A: No we left there on Sunday, we did not leave until 3 in the morning.
Q: But you really left there Saturday night, August 13th?
A: Yes we closed Saturday night.
Q: Before you went to Cannonsburg where were you?
A: At Heidelburg, Pa.
Q: How long did it take you to get from Cannonsburg to Heidelburg?
A: I don't know, we drove in a truck.
Q: How long were you in Heidelburg?
A: About two weeks.
Q: Then if you were there two weeks you went to Heidelburg about August 1st?
A: Yes.
Q: Then beginning with the 1st of August, 1921, you were in Heidelburg -
A: I beg your pardon, but that was in 1920 that I am speaking of.
Q: Then all your answers have applied to 1920, did they not, and this trouble occurred in 1921, so you were out a year?
A: Yes, I was speaking of 1920.
Q: I understand you to say you went to Huntington about the 1st of September, 1921, and then to Omar?
A: No, that was 1920. I could not have went to Omar on September 1st 1921, when I was in Blair in September, 1921.
Q: I want to see if we cannot get this straightened out as to your dates. Did you go to Omar in 1920 or 1921?
A: In 1920.
Q: You are certain of that?
A: Yes, unless I have forgotten what year this is.
Q: I understand you to say you were in Madison, is that so?
A: No in Danville with the Old Kentucky Shows.
Q: Do you know the date the miners are supposed to have come into Danville?
A: I can't give you the date. I know we went there on Monday, and they came on Friday.
Q: Friday of what month?
A: August.
Q: You say you went there the day the miners reached there?
A: No we came there on Monday of that week.
Q: And when did the miners come?
A: They came on Friday.
Q: Did you see Mr. Blizzard there at that time?
A: No.
Q: Did you see Mr. Blizzard there at that time?
A: No.
Q: Did you see Mr. Keeney?
A: I saw Keeney and Mooney the day they turned them back.
Q: Was that on Friday?
A: Yes that was on Friday.
Q: Did you see them before that time?
A: They passed me on the road in their machine.
Q: Where were you?
A: I was standing in front of the court house in Madison when they passed.
Q: Where did they go?
A: They were headed for Calloners.
Q: What kind of a car did they have?
A: They were in a Studebaker.
Q: You are positive of that?
A: Yes I was close enough to see that it was a new machine.
Q: You say you are sure they were travelling in a Studebaker car?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was driving it?
A: I don't know.
Q: Was one of they driving, or did they have a driver?
A: There were only two men in the car.
Q: Was General Banholtz in the car?
A: I did not see him.
Q: Was there any Military Officer in the car?
A: No.
Q: What time of day was it?
A: About noon.
Q: And they went from there to the Ball Park?
A: Keeney headed the miners off in Madison and told them he wanted them to come to the ball park that he wanted to talk to them.
Q: Did he make a statement to them that he want to talk to them at the ball park?
A: The word was passed along the line that Keeney and Mooney would talk to them at the ball park.
Q: How did you know that?
A: I was right there with the men. They were all about me. They were wondering why they were stopped. I could not help hearing what was being said.
Q: And you went on to the ball park with the men?
A: No. I walked down to Danville to the show.
Q: I understood you to say you went to the ball park.
A: I went there in the afternoon and could not get in. I did not go there directly from Madison.
Q: You don't know what took place in the ball park, do you?
A: No.
Q: Then that night you saw a number of these men at the show?
A: Yes.
Q: And that night was Friday night?
A: Between eleven and twelve Friday night.
Q: Where did the train load?
A: At the depot. There is a road that crosses by the depot, and the engine was standing right there, and the men entrained there.
Q: Was this at Danville or Madison?
A: Danville.
Q: What time?
A: Between eleven and twelve o'clock.
Q: You got on the train with them?
A: I was made to go.
Q: Who was in charge?
A: Lewis White was what I learned was his name later.
Q: What time did you get to Blair?
A: I could not say. I had been up late the night before, as we always are in my business, and it was early in the morning when the miners came into Danville, and I got up to see then, and I did not have much sleep and I slept a good deal that night but I expect it took us about two or three hours to run that distance. It was not day light when we got to Blair.
Q: Was that the first stop?
A: No they stopped at every little town and hamlet on the line to pick up men.
Q: When you got to Blair did the train unload?
A: It stopped at the Spruce Valley fork and the men detrained there at the bridge.
Q: That was on Saturday morning, was it not?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you see Mr. Blizzard there that day?
A: No.
Q: When did you see him there?
A: On the following Wednesday afternoon.
Q: Who came there with him?
A: I did not go to the car to see who was with him.
Q: What kind of a car did he come in?
A: In a Studebaker car.
Q: Was there anyone with him?
A: No.
Q: There was a man in the car with him, was there not?
A: No.
Q: Are you sure it was Blizzard?
A: Yes.
Q: You are sure the man in the car was Blizzard?
A: Yes.
Q: Had you seen Blizzard prior to that time?
A: No.
Q: Have you seen him since?
A: Yes.
Q: Have you seen him often?
A: No, not often.
Q: Where have you seen him?
A: I have seen him on the streets of Charles Town.
Q: Prior to seeing him here, when did you see him?
A: I saw him the afternoon he brought the ammunitions to Blair.
Q: Where did you next see him?
A: In this town.
Q: Did you not see him between that time and the time you saw him here?
A: No.
Q: And you had never seen him prior to that time?
A: No.
Q: You are positive that this man here is the man who came in the automobile with another man and unloaded ammunition at Blair?
A: Yes, and he turned it over to Jim Morrison.
Q: Was that the same man you see here to day?
A: Yes.
Q: And you say that was on Wednesday?
A: Yes, in the afternoon.
Q: And that was the Wednesday following the Friday you were in Madison with the show?
A: Yes, and following the Saturday I arrived in Blair.
Q: Assuming that your show left on Friday - that would be August 26th, would it not?
A: If that was Friday, it would.
Q: It was the last Friday in August, was it not, and that was the 26th?
A: Yes.
Q: Then you must have arrived in Blair on August 27th?
A: Yes.
Q: How long did you remain in Blair? From then until the arrival of the Federal troops?
A: They came in on Sunday and I left on Wednesday.
Q: You were there in Blair on Sunday, Aug. 28th, were you not?
A: Yes.
Q: And you were there on Monday, the 29th?
A: Yes.
Q: And on Tuesday, the 30th?
A: Yes.
Q: And on Wednesday, the 31st?
A: Yes.
Q: And that was the day on which you say you saw Bill Blizzard in Blair?
A: Yes.
Q: You say you saw him in a Studebaker car with another man and he was unloading and distributing ammunition?
A: He gave the ammunition to Jim Morrison and he distributed it.
Q: He made a speech there, did he not?
A: Yes.
Q: What did he say?
A: He said in substance - "you have got what you have been waiting for - now go and get them."
Q: Then you never saw him any more from that time until you saw him in Charles Town?
A: No.
Q: Then you stayed there in Blair the remainder of the week until the Federal troops came?
A: Yes, with the exception of the trips I made on the trains.
Q: You were there on Sept. 2nd, in Blair were you not?
A: Yes.
Q: You did not see Blizzard there on that day?
A: No, assuming that the Wednesday when he came there is the date you mention
Q: Wednesday was the 31st of August.
A: All right then.
Q: Then the second day of September would be Friday, would it not?
A: Yes.
Q: You were there on that day and did not see Blizzard?
A: No.
Q: I understood you to say the general headquarters of the miners was at the school house, and that the men would gather there from day to day, would they not?
A: Yes.
Q: You dropped in there nearly every day when they assembled, did you not?
A: I was not there all the time every day. I would not go there at any certain time. I generally went there except the time I was out on the train.
Q: When was that?
A: Thursday was the first clash. I went out on the train and got back on Friday. Then I went out Friday night and got back on Saturday. Then I went out on Saturday night and got back on Sunday.
Q: Did I understand you to say you went to Logan County and talked with the sheriff and then went to jail?
A: Yes.
Q: How did you get out of jail?
A: On bond.
Q: Who went on your bond?
A: Some parties in Logan. I don't know what their names are.
Q: Who arranged about the bond?
A: Mr. Chafin, the sheriff.
Q: Then where did you go?
A: I remained in Logan until I came here.
Q: Have not been away from there since?
A: No.
Q: Have you been employed as a deputy sheriff?
A: No.
Q: What have you been doing, anything?
A: Yes, I have been with the West Virginia and Kentucky Power Co.
Q: What were you doing?
A: Helping on the electricians to put in a power unit.
Q: You say it was on the 31st day of August that Blizzard distributed there ammunition?
A: It was Wednesday afternoon.
Q: How long after that was it before Gore was killed?
A: About 15, 16 or 17 hours.
Q: What day of the month would that have been?
A: That would make it Sept. 1st, I think.
Q: You say you were with the party that killed him?
A: Yes, I was a member of that party.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
Q: You say you were in Danville for a week nearly before you began that march?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you get acquainted with any of the people in Danville?
A: I stayed at a house there. I can recall the house and could locate in, but I don't know the name of the people. The biggest part of my time was on the 1st.
Q: You don't remember getting acquainted with anyone at that time before the march?
A: No.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TOWNSEND.
Q: I understood you to say Frank Wilburn was in the crowd that killed John Gore, is that correct?
A: Yes, John, Frank and the Reverend Wilburn.
Q: All three of them?
A: Yes.
Q: Was Westfield there?
A: I did not see him.
Q: Did I understand you to give the name of the party who fired the shot that killed John Gore?
A: I did not say that.
Q: He was fired upon from that bunch of men?
A: Yes.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
Q: Did you know Westfield?
A: I knew a negro by that name and saw him at Blair.
Q: If he had been present at that time would you have remembered it?
A: More than likely I would.
Witness dismissed.