Holt Dickens testimony
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
HOLT DICKENS. (Recalled)
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON.
Q. How long have you been a member of the United Mine Workers of America?
A. Near about three years at Mont Coal. I joined shortly after it was organized.
Q. Are you a member now?
A. I have not been in the local for a good while. I still hold the book.
Q. Then you don't know whether you are a member or not?
A. I don't guess I am. I have not been to the local for a good while.
Q. How long were you treasurer of the Mont Coal Local?
A. I have been treasurer something over two years.
Q. Do you recall when you took office as treasurer of the Mont Coal Local, No. 4719?
A. I don't not recall the time.
Q. When did you cease to be treasurer of that Local
A. I never have been in the Local since all the funds were checked out.
Q. When was that?
A. I believe it was last January.
Q. Then you were treasurer for two years before last January?
A. Yes, I was treasurer for that long.
Q. I believe you said the only person who spoke to you about the checking out of the funds drawn out by these check on these orders as Mr. Munsey?
A. No, I said he was the first one I heard say anything about going to Marmet.
Q. State if your name is signed to these various checks as treasurer?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Who told you to make out all these checks?
A. When ever they brought an order to me I wrote the checks for them. The order would have on it the name of the President and the recording secretary.
Q. Did you attend a meeting of the Local at that time?
A. I did at first, and afterward I did not attend any meetings until the men came back.
Q. Were most of these order drawn as you say at the meetings that you attended?
A. No, they were drawn through the week. I don't know just where they met. They brought the order to me. I got most of them after the men began to leave.
Q. Is it not something unusual to draw out such sums of money so rapidly?
A. There never had been so much drawn out before at one time.
Q. You were placed under bond as treasurer, were you not?
A. I don't know.
Q. When these orders were presented to you, did you make no inquiries into their regularity or authenticity?
A. No.
Q. When these orders were presented to you, some of them as large as $300, several of them, would you draw the check on the funds of the Local without making any inquiry as to whether the orders were regular or not?
A.Yes.
Q. As treasurer, you familiarized yourself with the constitution and by-laws of the United Miner Workers, did you not.
A. Yes, some of it.
Q. You tried to familiarize yourself with your duties as treasurer did you not?
A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you to state whether or not at that time you were familiar with this part of Sec. 25 of Article 14 of the Constitution of the International Union of Mine Workers of America
"Any Local using its funds for other than legitimate shall be fine double the amount so used, the fine to be collected by the District and turned over to the International Secretary-Treasurer."
Did you know about that section?
A. Yes.
Objection.
Objection overruled.
Q. When they presented the order to me with the name of the officials on them I would write the check for them.
Q. Did it not strike you as peculiar that these amounts of money should be drawn out?
A. They looked pretty large, but they brought orders to me for those amounts and I did not try to find out what they were going to do with it. That was not my place.
Q. Were you familiar at that time with this additional provision of Article 14 of the International Constitution -
"Any member receiving money from a Local Union for other than a legitimate purpose shall be suspended until double the amount received is returned." Did you know about that provision?
A. Yes, I knew about that.
Q. Have you familiarized yourself also with the constitution of District No. 17 of the United Mine Workers?
A. I have read some of it.
Q. Do you not recall Sec. 4. of Article 9 of the constitution of District No. 17, which reads as follows -
"All local treasurers and such secretaries as handle the finances of the organization shall furnish sufficient security for the faithful performance of their duties, the amount of said security to be determined by the Local Union. All Local officers entrusted with the funds of the Local Union shall procure a bond from a reputable Surety Company through the District Secretary-Treasurer, when such Surety Company and contract therewith is approve by the District Executive Board."
You complied with that provision, did you not?
A.I certainly did.
Q. Were you not familiar with Sec. 5 of Article 9 of the constitution of District No. 17 as follows -
"The treasurer of a local union shall give a receipt for all finances of the Local Union subject to check only when signed by the President, Recording Secretary and Treasurer, with seal attached, after order has been drawn by Local Union in regular or special session."
You were familiar with that provision?
A.I don't recall whether I was or not.
Q. Did you not know the formalities require before drawing out the fund of this organization?
A.I did not know them all.
Q. As a matter of fact not a single one of these checks has on it the president of the recording secretary, has it?
A. No. There was no name of the president of recording secretary on the check. They were on the order.
Q. But the name of the president and the recording secretary is required to be on the check by the constitution of District 17 is it not?
A. No, only on the order.
Q. And the only name that is on the checks is your own? as treasurer?
A. Yes, and the Local seal I put my signature and the Local seal on them.
Q. Did you not know when you were drawing these checks that your drawing them was a contradiction and a violation of the provisions of the District No. 17?
A. No.
Q. Had you not read the constitution?
A. I don't know what I had. I thought I was doing my duty when I issued a check if the President's name was on the order
Q. You stated, I believe that you understood the provision in regarding to receiving and drawing out funds belonging to the Local.
A. I don't know that I knew all about it, but I knew enough to give checks when the orders were right.
Q. Then you were only ignorant of the fact that you could not draw the funds of the local out of the bank without the name of the president and recording secretary on the check?
A. I never knew they had to go on the checks.
Q. You never knew that before?
A. No
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OSENTON
Q. Was this local of which you were treasurer under District 17?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that the District of which Mr. Keeney is President and Mr. Mooney Secretary?
A. Yes.
Q. Have the district officials objected to the manner in which you issued the checks of like character?
A. No, they had not.
Q. Has there ever been any action taken on your bond for having issued the checks in the manner in which you did issue them by either Mr. Keeney or Mr. Mooney?
A. No.
Q. Or by your Local?
A. No.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TOWNSEND.
Q. Do you know whether Mr. Keeney knew anything about the order or not?
A. I don't know whether he knew about the orders or not, but I paid the capitation by check just like them and there has never been any kick.
Q. Did Mr. Keeney knew you drew these checks?
A. I could not say about that.
Q. Did Mr. Mooney know about your drawing these checks?
A. I have written him checks.
Q. I am asking you whether these particular checks and the manner in which you drew them came to the attention of Mr. Mooney as secretary?
A. I could not say about these checks.
Q. So far as you know Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney never saw them until to day?
A. I don't know whether they did or not?
Q. Do you know whether Mr. Blizzard knew about them?
A. No, he did not.
Q. Did the traveling auditor of the Union ever check you up?
A. No, he never has.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. OSENTON.
Q. You say you gave checks for capitation which you sent to Mr. Mooney - were they drawn the same way there check are drawn?
A. Yes, they were drawn with the seal and my signature.
Q. What do you mean by the capitation?
A. The tax or assessment that we paid ever month.
Q. Where would you send the capitation assessment?
A. To Mr. Mooney as Secretary-treasurer of District 17.
Q. Was there ever any protest on the part of Mr. Mooney as to the way these checks were drawn?
A. I never heard any.
Q. Were all of these checks for capitation and assessment signed the same way as these checks are sign on an order to you as treasurer?
A. Yes.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TOWNSEND.
Q. Do you recall that circular letters were sent out by Mr. Mooney as Secretary, calling your attention and the attention of all the treasurers to irregularities in the way checks were issued and calling attention to the constitutional amendment in regard to the same?
Objection.
Objection overruled.
A.I don't recall it.
Q. Circulars were received there from the Secretary and read in the meetings, were they not?
A.Yes.
Witness dismissed.