William Bruce
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
WILLIAM BRUCE
Direct Examination By Mr. Belcher.
Q: Where do you live?
A: At Lens creek
Q: Tell the jury your name?
A: William Bruce.
Q: Is Lens Creek in Kanawha County?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Where did you live during the month of August, 1921?
A: At Hernshaw on Lens Creek.
Q: Were you a member of the United Mine Workers of America?
A: Yes, sir
Q: To what local did you belong?
A: 5046 I believe the number of it was.
Q: Did you see an assemblage of armed men on Lens Creek?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How far do you live from the point where they began to assemble?
A: About 2 miles.
Q: Was it below or above your home?
A: Below my home.
Q: Did you hear Mother Jones speak?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: When was that if you recall?
A: I don't remember the date of it.
Q: How many speeches did you hear her make?
A: One.
Q: Tell the jury what you remember of the speech made by her?
A: I can't remember much about this speech.
Q: Can you remember anything she said?
A: Yes, sir, I can remember hearing her advise the boys there to go home, that they were making the wrong move.
Q: What did the men do at the time she finished making her speech?
A: Part of them started back and part wanted to stay and they formed a guard line.
Q: Did you see Frank Keeney on that occasion?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What, if anything, did he do about the time Mother Jones had finished her speech?
A: He made a little talk.
Q: What did he say?
A: He told them to go on, not to go back home, that it was a fake.
Q: After Frank Keeney had told them to go on what next was done, if anything?
A: They formed a guard line and would not let them go home.
Q: About how soon was that guard line formed after Keeney had said for them to go on?
A: The guard line was formed before he said that.
Q: About how many men were in that line?
A: I can't say how many were in there, but there was a good bunch of them they were standing close together.
Q: What did they have?
A: Rifles.
Q: What kind?
A: All kinds.
Q: What was the length of this guard line?
A: I don't know how long it was, it was up on each side of the hill.
Q: All the way across the knoll?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How near to the point where Mother Jones spoke was this guard line thrown out?
A: About a hundred and fifty yards.
Q: About how many people were there that day?
A: About three thousand.
Q: About what proportion of them would you say was armed?
A: I would say about 2/3 of them.
Q: Were there any men on Lens Creek at any other point other than at the place where this meeting was held?
A: None that I know of.
Q: did you try to get our on this occasion?
A: Yes, sir, I tried to get out.
Q: Did you get back home?
A: Yes, I got back home that evening.
Q: About how long was it from the time you started until you got to your home?
A: About an hour and a half.
Q: What is the distance from the point you started from to your home?
A: About a mile.
Q: Why were you and an hour and a half getting there?
A: Because they would not let me through the lines.
Q: What if anything was said to you?
A: They told me I could not get through.
Q: Did you hear any of the men say there on that occasion where they were going and what they intended to do?
A: No, I didn't hear them say.
Q: Did you hear them say at that time where they were going?
A: Yes I heard lots of them say they were going to Logan after Don Chafin but I don't remember who they were.
Q: Did you hear any statement made as to what their purpose was in going to Mingo County?
A: To organize it.
Q: Did you join this march?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Why did you join it?
A: Because I thought it was my duty to join it.
Q: Were you furnished with a gun?
A: Yes, sir a fellow give me a gun.
Q: Why did you consider it was your duty to go on that march?
A: Well, I was a United Mine worker and I saw all the rest going and I thought I should go with them
Q: Did you understand that the United Mine Workers were interested in that march?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: What do you know about the United Mine Workers being behind that movement?
A: I didn't know of anything.
Q: What pass word, if any, did they give you?
A: I never had a pass word given me.
Q: How did you get by the guard line?
A: There was no guard line in front of me after I got the gun.
Q: After you were given this gun when did you start on the march?
A: I don't remember the date that I started.
Q: Where did you go to?
A: I went to Hewitt Creek, Jeffrey.
Q: Did you reach the firing line?
A: I don't know whether I did or not, I was up there some place.
Q: Did you do any shooting?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you hear any?
A: Yes, sir, plenty of it.
Q: How long did you stay up there?
A: One day.
Q: And you heard plenty of shooting while you were there?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What did you wear around your neck?
A: A piece of red cloth.
Q: Why did you do that?
A: I reckon to let the miners know who I was.
Q: Did anyone tell you to wear it?
A: No, sir.
Q: Where did you get this piece of red cloth?
A: I got it at Racine.
Q: Tell the jury why you got it.
A: I heard them talking about it being dangerous to go up there without it that some of the miners might shoot me.
Q: How did you get from Marmet to Jeffreys?
A: I walked to Racine and there was a train came there and took me to Jeffreys.
Q: What time did you get on this train at Racine?
A: About two o'clock in the afternoon.
Q: About how many men got on this train with you?
A: I don't have any idea, a good bunch of men.
Q: Give your best judgment as to the number.
A: About 300.
Q: Which way did you go when you got on the train?
A: We went down Big Cove to a place that I have forgotte[n] the name.
Q: Was it Sproul?
A: Yes, sir, it was Sproul.
Q: Where did you go from Sproul?
A: To Jeffreys.
Q: That was up little Coal River?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What time did you arrive at Jeffreys?
A: About 11 o'clock that night.
Q: What did you do upon your arrival there?
A: I got my supper.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: Up on the hill.
Q: Who was in charge of the situation at Jeffreys?
A: I don't know.
Q: Did you pay any money on the train from Racine to Jeffreys?
A: No.
Q: Did any of the others that were with you pay so far as you know?
A: Not as I know of.
Q: What was said about your fare if anything?
A: Nothing.
Q: Who had charge of the train?
A: I don't know who had charge of it.
Q: Did you see any railroad conductor on the train that you were on?
A: No, I never saw any conductor.
Q: What kind of care or coaches did you ride in?
A: Flat cars like you use to haul logs on.
Q: Who had charge of the men on this trip?
A: I don't know who had charge of the men.
Q: Did you see anyone give directions or orders?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you know before the train came in that it was coming?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Who told you that?
A: I don't remember who it was. I didn't hear there was a train until I got to Racine.
Q: Do you know anything about any money that was brought over from your local?
A: There was $100. brought over from our local.
Q: Who brought it?
A: Everett Tony, Bill Price and Lip Clark.
Q: Were they members of the United Mine Workers?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And members of the local to which you belonged?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What was done with this money?
A: They divided it up among us.
Q: Did you get any of it?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How much?
A: $12.50
Q: Do you know the names of any other persons who got part of this $100.?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Give the jury their names.
A: Garrett Griffith got part of it and Wayman McCormick and Sam Brice is all I remember.
Q: Were these men of your local union?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did this train upon which you rode from Racine to Jeffreys have anything on it other than men?
A: Yes, sir, a few women.
Q: Did it carry provisions?
A: I never say any.
Q: About how man of these men on this train were armed?
A: Just about all of them.
Q: What kind of arms did they have?
A: Rifles and pistols
Q: What kind of rifles?
A: All kinds.
Q: Where were they carrying the pistols?
A: In their pockets and on their belts.
Q: Out where they could be seen?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Do you know of any men at Lens Creek or Racine that were turned back because they did not have arms?
A: No, I didn't know of them, but I heard them talking about being turned back but I was not along.
Q: How many days were you gone from Lens Creek?
A: Four days.
Q: When did you return with reference to the time the soldiers went in?
A: I returned that evening.
Q: What day did the soldiers come in?
A: I don't remember exactly.
Q: You didn't leave that country until after they came in?
A: No, the soldiers came in in the morning and I left Jeffrey that evening.
Q: When did you come in from the hills?
A: The day before the soldiers came.
Q: What did you do with your gun?
A: I give it to a fellow to hide.
Q: Was it understood among the men that they were to hide their guns?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Was there any understanding as to what disposition you were to make of the guns?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: How many men that left Jeffrey with you had guns, if any?
A: I don't know of any.
Q. About how many men came out of the hills to Jeffreys with you?
A: About 12 or 15 came out.
Q: Do you know what became of their guns?
A: No, I do not.
Q: How did you get back home from Jeffreys?
A: I came back on a train.
Q: Did any of the other men go out on the train with you that day?
A: Yes, sir, a whole train load of them.
WILLIAM BRUCE cross examination Questions by MR. TOWNSEND
Q: Your name is William Bruce?
A: Yes, sir.
MOTION is made by counsel for the defendant at this point to strike out all the testimony of this witness.
Overruled.
Exception.
MOTION is made to strike out all the testimony of each witness was has testified for the state.
Overruled
Exception.
Q: Where did you say you lived?
A: Hernshaw, up on Lens Creek.
Q: How long have you lived there?
A: Lived there about 24 years.
Q: How many years?
A: About 24.
Q: Were you living there during August and September, 1921
A: Yes sir.
Q: Do you know Wm. Price?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Talked to him about this case, didn't you?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Do you know Frank Morris?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Talk to him about it?
A: No sir.
Q: Do you know Mr. Coates?
A: No sir, I don't know him.
Q: Did you ever see him?
A: I don't know. If I did, I didn't know him.
Q: Did you ever talk to anybody about this case in Mr. Belcher's office in Charleston?
A: I don't know whose office it was.
Q: But you did talk about this case in an office in the Kanawha Valley Bank Building in Charleston?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Who took you down there?
A: I was summoned to go there.
Q: Who issued the summons.
A: Mr. Price.
Q: Is that the same Mr. Price that has testified in this case?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did he hand you a subpoena?
A: No.
Q: How did he summons you?
A: He told me to come.
Q: What else did he tell you?
A: That was all.
Q: Did he tell you why?
A: No sir, he didn't tell me why.
Q: Whom did you see when you got there?
A: Mr. Williams.
Q: George Williams?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Who's he?
A: I don't know.
Q: He is one of the counsel in this case for the State, is he not?
A: I don't know whether he is or not. I guess he is, he is here.
Q: Have you seen him since you have been here?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You came over on the special, did you not?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You were furnished a ticket?
A: I don't know whether I was or not. I never saw any ticket.
Q: You didn't pay anything to get here, did you?
A: No sir.
Q: Did you make a statement of what you knew of this case in Mr. Belcher's office?
A: Yes sir.
Q: To Mr. Williams?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Pay you anything for it?
A: No sir.
Q: Tell the jury what date Mother Jones made her speech at Marmet?
A: I don't remember the date.
Q: Do you remember the day of the week?
A: No sir, I don't remember the day of the week.
Q: Is there anyway you can fix the day?
A: No sir.
Q: Was it August or September?
A: August.
Q: Was it the latter part of August?
A: As well as I remember, it was.
Q: The last week of August?
A: I don't remember whether it was or not.
Q: Had you been there prior to the time you saw Mother Jones, I mean on the Creek. You lived there, didn't you?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How long prior to the time Mother Jones spoke there, did the men begin to assemble?
A: I don't remember.
Q: You have some idea, haven't you? You lived there all the time?
A: They was there a week or two.
Q: Week or two?
A: Yes sir, maybe it was a week or two. I don't just remember how long it was.
Q: How many men were there at the time Mother Jones made her speech?
A: To the best of my judgment, about 3,000.
Q: Had you been passing up and down the creek prior to that time?
A: Not while the miners had been there. Not while there were camping there.
Q: Had you been out of the creek during the time the miners had been there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And came back in?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You had been out of the creek before Mother Jones came there and made her speech, had you not?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How many days before?
A: I don't remember how many days it had been before.
Q: Several days?
A: I don't remember just how many days it was.
Q: You had been in and out of the creek about every day after the men came there up until she made her speech, had you not?
A: No sir. I went out two or three times.
Q: At the time you went out, you found a guard line down there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And every time you went out you found a guard line?
A: I found guards.
Q: Well, they stopped you, didn't they?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What did you do to get through?
A: I had to tell them where I was from and what Local I belonged to.
Q: Tell them where you were from and what Local you belonged to?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You had to do that every time you went out?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And that was from the time the miners began to assemble there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: The day Mother Jones was there, did you see Frank Keeney?
A: Yes sir.
Q: I understood you to say he made a speech?
A: Yes sir.
Q. Well, was he on an elevated platform or in an automobile?
A: In the county road.
Q: What did he say?
A: He was advising them to go on. He said if they went back they wouldn't win. If they went on they would gain. If they went back they would lose.
Q: Where was Mother Jones then?
A: I don't know where she was at just at that time. I believe she was in a car - she was around there somewhere.
Q: Was that before or after she had made her speech?
A: After she had made her speech.
Q: You are positive that is what he said?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you see Mr. Mooney there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you hear him make a speech, also?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What did he say?
A: He was advising them to go on.
Q: Did you see Mr. Blizzard there?
A: No sir.
Q: Didn't see him?
A: Not as I know of. If I did, I didn't know him.
Q: You did see Mr. Mooney and Mr. Keeney?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Both making speeches?
A: They was talking in the road.
Q: Were they simply talking to the men, or did they address the men (You know the difference between simplying talking to them and addressing them.)
A: They was talking to the men.
Q: Just talking?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Talking loud?
A: Yes sir, pretty loud.
Q: Talking so all three thousand could hear them?
A: I don't know whether all three thousand could hear them or not.
Q: You heard them?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How close were you?
A: Ten or 15 feet.
Q: You could hear 10 or 15 feet away.
A: Yes sir.
Q: They were standing right together when they made the speech?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Which one made a speech first? Were they both talking at the same time?
A: Both talking at the same time.
Q: And both telling them to go on, that is right?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And both saying the same thing, didn't they?
A: Yes sir. As well as I could tell you.
Q: Where did you go with that assembly? Did you go with them?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Where?
A: I went to the head of Hewetts Creek.
Q: What time in the day of the day that Mother Jones made her speech, did you leave Lens Creek?
A: I never left Lens creek that day. I went back home.
Q: You went back home after the speech?
A: Yes sir.
Q: When did you leave Lens Creek?
A: I didn't leave for several days.
Q: Do you know what day of the week it was when you left?
A: No sir.
Q: Have you any idea?
A: No sir.
Q: How many days after the day that Mother Jones made her speech was it that you left for Hewetts Creek?
A: I don't just remember.
Q: Can you give the jury some idea of whether it was one day or two days or three days or four days?
A: No sir, I don't remember.
Q: You don't know whether it was a week or a month?
A: Yes sir, in side of a week.
Q: Within side of a week?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Then if Mother Jones made her speech on August 24th, assuming that she did, then you left for Hewetts Creek within a week following that time, is that correct?
A: As well as I remember.
Q: How's that?
A: As well as I remember.
Q: Now, how many men were in the crowd that you left with?
A: Well, near as I could tell, there was about 2 - or 300.
Q: Who had charge of them?
A: I don't know.
Q: Who told you to go to Hewetts Creek?
A: Nobody told me.
Q: You just went along with the crowd?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you know where you were going when you started?
A: I don't know what point I was going to.
Q. Did you know what you were going for?
A: Yes sir, I knowed pretty well what I was going for.
Q: You were going to Logan to get after Don Chafin and to Mingo county to organize, that is what you said?
A: Yes sir.
Q: That is what you had in your mind?
A: Yes sir.
Q: That is what this assembly had in its mind that you went with, wasn't it?
Objection.
Overruled.
A: That is what they all had in their minds from the talk they had.
Q: That is what, from the talk they had, that the 300 men you were with had in their minds, they were going over there to get after Don Chafin and organize Logan county and Mingo county, that is right, isn't it?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What time in the day did you get to Jeffery?
A: About 11 o'clock that night.
Q: The same night you left Hernshaw?
A: I left there that day sometime.
Q: What time did you leave Hernshaw?
A: Left along somewhere in the morning.
Q: Before 12 o'clock?
A: About 10 or 11 o'clock.
Q: You got to Jeffery the same night about 11 o'clock?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Which way did you go?
A: Up Lens Creek - down Short Creek to Racine. Taken a train there and went down to - I forget the name of the place, and come back up to Little Coal Mountain, went down to the same place then came back up Little Coal, across to Big Coal River, through the tunnel, and back up Little Coal River.
Q: Did you go all the way to Jeffery on the train?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You got on the train at Racine and went down Coal River?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Then you went up Little Coal River?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you go by Madison?
A: Yes sir, I guess I did.
Q: Did you stop there?
A: I don't know whether we did or not. I don't remember whether we did or not.
Q: Did that train make any steps between Racine and Jeffery?
A: Yes sir.
Q: How did you get that train, was it a regular passenger train?
A: No sir. I don't know what kind of a train it was.
Q: Was it coaches or flat cars?
A: Flat cars.
Q: Did you see Ed Reynolds on that train?
A: No sir, never say Ed Reynolds until after I got on the train coming out here.
Q: Coming up to this trial?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Was that the first you ever saw him?
A: The first time to know him.
Q: You didn't see Blizzard anywhere on your trips?
A: No sir.
Q: You didn't see Mooney or Keeney?
A: Yes sir. I saw Mooney or Keeney?
Q: You saw them at Hernshaw. You didn't see them anywhere else, did you?
A: No sir.
Q: You got to Hewetts Creek at 11 o'clock at night?
A: Yes sir, at Jeffery.
Q: Then what did you do?
A: I went and eat my supper and laid down until the next morning.
Q: Did you stay in a house or outside?
A: Yes sir, stayed in a hall there.
Q: Where did you go the next morning?
A: I went to the head of Hewetts Creek. Went up on the hill there top of the mountain.
Q: Now, how many days after Mother jones made the speech was it that you got to Hewetts Creek?
A: I don't remember.
Q: Was it three days or a week?
A: I don't remember.
Q: It was within a week, wasn't it?
A: To the best of my knowledge, it was.
Q: Was it the same day?
A: No sir.
Q: Was it the next day?
A: I told you I don't remember how many days it would be.
Q: You remember her making the speech, don't you?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You remember, as you say, Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney told them to go on'
A: Yes sir.
Q: Do you mean to tell the jury you can't tell how many days after that it was that you started to Hewetts Creek?
A: Yes sir, I do.
Q: You can't tell them?
A: No sir.
Q: Don't have any idea?
A: I told you I had an idea it was within a week.
Q: Might have been within two weeks, might it not?
A: I guess it could have been.
Q: Might have been two weeks, isn't that true?
A: Yes sir, It could have been.
Q: It could have been within two weeks, and it could have been within three weeks, is that so?
A: Yes, it could have been.
Q: As a matter of fact, you don't remember much about it, do you?
A: I don't remember much about that. I don't remember the dates.
Q: Where did you stay the night Mother Jones spoke?
A: Home.
Q: Was it the next day you left?
A: No sir.
Q: Was it the day after the next day?
A: I don't remember.
Q: You don't remember?
A: No.
Q: Your memory is good, isn't it?
A: Not much.
Q: On how many different occasions did you see Mother Jones there? One or two?
A: I saw her on one.
Q: When did you come back from Hewetts Creek?
A: The same day the soldiers come in there.
Q: How many days had you been over there?
A: I had been over there one day before they came.
Q: One day?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did I understand you to say you were there one day before the soldiers came?
A: I was there one day and part of one night and one whole night when the soldiers came. I went in there - about 11 o'clock one night and stayed there the next day and night, and the soldiers come the next morning.
Q: Then, if the soldiers came on September 3d, on the morning of Saturday, September 3d, then you got into Hewetts Creek on the night of September 1st, didn't you?
A: Yes sir.
Q: And if you for in on the night of September 1, at 11 o'clock, then you left Lens Creek on that same morning, didn't you? That is right, isn't it?
A: That I left Lens Creek the same morning the soldiers come in there?
Q: No. Assuming that the soldiers got in on the morning of September 3d, you said you have been there the day before, and got in there two days before, then that would get you into Hewetts Creek on the first at 11 o'clock at night. You said it was 11 o'clock when you got there?
A: Yes sir.
Q. Then you left Lens Creek before noon that same day?
A: Yes sir.
Q: That would make you leaving Lens Creek on the morning of Sept. 1st, that is right, isn't it?
A: I reckon it is.
And further said deponent saith not.