Henry A. Walker
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
HENRY A. WALKER, a witness of lawful age, being first duly sworn deposes and says: Questions by MR. BELCHER.
Q: What is your name?
A: Henry A. Walker.
Q: Have you been sworn, Mr. Walker?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Where do you live?
A: I live in Charleston, W. Va.
Q: What official position, if any, do you hold in Kanawha county?
A: I am Sheriff of Kanawha County.
Q: How long have you been such sheriff?
A: Since January 1, 1921.
Q: Mr. Walker, do you know anything about the armed assembly of miners at Marmet on Lens Creek during the month of August, 1921?
A: Yes, I know they were there.
Q: When did you first know of their being there, or their coming there?
A: The first information I had that they were going to assemble there was on Friday evening as I recall, before they assembled on Saturday. On Saturday, about the noon hour, I went to Lens Creek and found some, - I would say from 5 - to 700 there.
Q: Were any of them armed?
A: Yes sir.
Q: What character of weapons did they have, their arms?
A: Well, they had pistols and high powered rifles. Saw some shot guns.
Q: Please state to the jury whether you encountered any guard lines or outposts.
A: Yes, at the mouth of Lens Creek, they had some guards stationed there, and then on up from this point, I was say half a mile, they had some guards thrown out and possibly two miles up the Creek they had some guards.
Q: Then there were three guard lines below the main body of assembly?
A: No, this farthest guard line I spoke of was up above their main assembly, as I recall it.
Q: Then there was a guard line up the Creek above the assembly and two below, that you found there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you talk to any of those men who were assembled there?
A: Yes, I talked with a number of them.
Q: Did you, as Sheriff of the county, endeavor to persuade them to disperse?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: What did you do in reference to that situation there?
A: I talked with them. There was one a few of the men I knew by name. I talked with them and tried to get them to lay down their arms or take their arms back home. I explained they were doing the wrong thing.
Q: What heed, if any, did they give your request or advice?
A: None at all.
Q: Did you have any difficulty in getting through those guard lines when you visited this camp?
A: Well, on the first occasion I had some little difficulty.
Q: Tell the jury what you encountered there.
A: At the mouth of the Creek, they halted me, and wanted to know who I was. I informed them that I was the sheriff of the county and asked them why they halted me. Some of them remarked they didn't want to let anyone get up the hollow who might have moonshine whiskey or anything like that on them, and they let me pass on. So, I went on up to this other guard point, and I was halted there. I went on through this one and past the third. I passed the second one after being halted and at the third place where they had their guard, they didn't halt me as I went through. I went on above this point and came back. As I came back, they halted me there.
Q: About how many men were stationed at the outposts or guard lines?
A: At the mouth of the Creek, I would say there was possibly 50 or 60, I expect there.
Q: Were they armed?
A: A portion of them were.
Q: Where was the first guard line in reference to the town of Marmet. Was it within the corporate limits of the town?
A: I believe it was, yes.
Q: Were you threatened at any time by these guards?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: Were you there at any other time?
A: Yes, I made from one to three trips up there each day they were assembled in that neighborhood.
Q: How long from the day you first went there, Sheriff, did they continue to assemble there?
A: They must have been there close to two weeks.
Q: Can you recall the date it was when you first went there and found these men assembled, numbering you say from 5 to 700.
A: I don't recall the date, but it was on Saturday, it must have been along about the 10th or 12th of August.
Q: I will ask you whether or not the civil authorities of Kanawha county were able to cope with that situation when you first went there?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: You saw you went there several trips a day, what date was it that you were there the last time, if you recall?
A: I don't recall the date, but the last trip I made there was about the time Mother Jones was there and made a speech to the miners.
Q: What is your estimate of the number of men there on Lens Creek at that time?
A: Must have been 2 or 3,000. I would say there was something like that.
Q: What did you do in reference to that assembly after they had refused to obey you and go home?
Objection.
THE COURT: He stated he had requested several of them to go home.
QUESTIONS BY THE COURT
Q: What was it you said about that?
A: As I stated before, I requested them to lay down their arms or take their arms home with them, and explained to them that they were doing the wrong thing.
Q: Whom did you make that request of?
A: I don't know as I recall the names of any of them I made the request to. As I said, I didn't know many of them. I knew their faces but not their names.
Q: Who were those you knew there and spoke to?
A: One of them was Mr. Barsham, and another by the name of John Flemming.
Q: What I am trying to get at is: Whether you made that announcement to the whole assembly or whether it was to individuals you spoke to?
A: I did not make it to the whole assemblage.
THE COURT to Counsel You may inquire what he did after that.
Q: Now, after that what did you do if anything?
A: I went back each day - two or three times a day. Each time I went there, I talked to them about turning back and going to their homes.
Q: Do you know whether or not it was generally understood among the men there as to your mission?
Objection.
THE COURT: I think they can ask him if he knew that. That is the purport of the question. If he didn't know, that would end it.
A: No, I did not know.
Q: After they kept on coming in, as you say, what action if any did you take to disperse these men?
A: I didn't take any action to disperse them.
Q: Did you call on any other authorities?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: Tell all you did in regard to that, after you had been there on these occasions and had talked to these men, just tell the jury what you did?
A: You want me to state what I did on the first occasion?
Q: Yes.
A: On the first occasion, after going up there, I got in communication with the Governor and made an engagement with him. I told him what I found, and also stated to him that the situation was beyond my control, and the situation got worse, that is, there was more men coming in each day, from that time on until they finally left Lens Creek.
Q: Did you make any report to the Governor as to the conditions you found there?
A: I did.
Q: Was that report in writing?
A: It was.
Q: Who, if anyone, joined you in that report?
A: I believe Mr. Burdett, the Prosecuting Attorney of Kanawha County and Judge Black of the Intermediate Court.
Q: In that report, did you state the situation and the condition?
Objection, the report would speak for itself
Q: I hand you a paper and will ask you if that is a copy of the report you made on that occasion to the Governor?
A: Yes sir, that is a copy.
Counsel for the State offers to introduce the paper in evidence.
Objection, first on the ground that it is an alleged copy. The principal objection is that is it the recital of matter that came to the sheriff upon information.
QUESTION BY THE COURT
Q: Did you compare this with the original report you made to see if it is a correct copy?
A: I have compared it, Your Honor.
THE COURT SUSTAINS the objection on the ground that it is only a copy of the original report, but holds that he would admit the original report.
COUNSEL FOR THE STATE says that when they get the original report, they will introduce it in evidence with the testimony of this witness.
Exception.
Q: Sheriff, were you in Charleston on the 7th day of August, 1921, when the miners had a meeting, a mass meeting on the old Capitol Grounds?
A: Yes, I was there.
Q: About how many men would you estimate attended that meeting?
A: I passed through - or by, rather, the assemblage there, I would say between three and four o'clock. I would estimate there was a couple of thousand at the time I was there.
Q: Where was the meeting held in reference to the Governor's mansion?
A: Directly across the street, opposite the Governor's mansion.
Q: Any speeches made there that day?
A: At the time I passed there, Mr. Mooney was making a speech.
Q: Mr. Fred Mooney?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you see Mr. Keeney there on that occasion?
A: No, I don't recall seeing Mr. Keeney.
Q: Do you recall seeing the defendant, Mr. Blizzard?
A: No, I do not.
Q: About when, if you know, did that meeting first assemble there?
A: I don't know.
Q: Do you know what time it broke up?
A: No, I don't know that, I didn't tarry there long. Just passed through.
Q: You stated that you were on Lens Creek that day Mother Jones spoke, did you head that speech?
A: No, I did not.
Q: When did you get to Lens Creek in reference to the time she made her speech?
A: I was up there a couple times that day. I went once in the morning and once in the evening. I left Lens creek I think about close to 5 o'clock.
Q: What time did you get there in the afternoon?
A: Must have been 3 o'clock, around 3.
Q: I will ask you whether or not on that occasion you saw Mr. Keeney or Mr. Mooney or both?
A: If I saw them?
Q: Yes.
A: You mean at Lens Creek?
Q: No, on your way going up?
A: On my way back, the last trip, I passed Mr. Keeney and Mr. Moone[y] and another gentleman in an automobile at the mouth of Rush creek.
Q: In what direction were they traveling?
A: Going toward Lens Creek.
Q: What time did you say that was in the afternoon?
A: Must have been around 5 o'clock, possibly a little later.
Q: About what time in the day was it you received information about Mother Jones making this speech?
A: I don't remember what time.
Q: Did you know the man in the automobile with Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney?
A: I did not recognize him. I just recognized Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney and noticed another man. I didn't recognize who he was.
Q: Who was driving the car?
A: I believe Mr. Mooney was driving.
Q: Did you notice what kind of car it was?
A: No, I didn't notice.
Q: At any time during the times that you were there, did you see Mr. Keeney and Mr. Mooney with these miners on Lens Creek?
A: I did not.
Q: Now, you say that they continued to come in from the time you first went there until they marched out, do you know from what sections of the county and state these men came from?
A: Seemed to come from all sections.
Q: How would they come, Sheriff?
A: Automobile, on trains, and afoot.
Q: What, if anything, would they have?
A: Well, some of them would be carrying rifles, some pistols, and some wouldn't have any arms at all that I could see.
Q: Do you know anything about provisions being sent in?
A: Well, I could see at times machines coming with provisions. That is trucks, meet them coming from Charleston.
Q: How were they provisioned on the ground, where did they eat?
A: They ate on the ground.
Q: Do you know where they slept during the time they were on Lens Creek?
A: No, I do not.
Q: Please state to the jury whether you saw any of these armed men going to Lens Creek through the City of Charleston? Or returning from Lens Creek?
A: I have seen some in Charleston with guns wrapped up in paper - I never saw any of them carrying them open.
Q: Do you know whether any of these armed men rode on the street cars?
A: I don't recall seeing any of them that way.
Q: I will ask you whether or not you saw any armed men around the depot or Post office around the town of Marmet?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: Do you know where the station stop of the Charleston Interurban is?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know where the C and O depot is located there?
A: Yes sir.
Q: I will ask you if during your visits to Marmet and in that vicinity you noticed any armed men around these points I have named?
A: I have, yes.
Q: Do you know whether or not the armed men there at these points were watching the street cars coming in?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: What were they doing there at these points, if you know?
A: They were just standing and walking around these places.
Q: Armed?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you hear any declaration made by these men on Lens Creek as to what their purpose was and what they were doing?
A: Some of them that I would talk to would complain about the miners being imprisoned in Mingo and some would complain about the guards in Logan and Mingo, and some would state they were going over there and clean up that condition.
Q: Did you hear anything said by them in reference to releasing the prisoners in Mingo?
A: Yes, I believe I heard them say this.
Q: What, if anything, did you hear about Martial Law in Mingo County at that time from these men?
Objection.
THE COURT: I think that they would have a right to direct the witness's attention to the general subject they want to inquire about.
A: I don't remember hearing them say anything about Martial Law.
Objection is withdrawn.
Q: Sheriff, as Sheriff of Kanawha County, why did you not arrest these men who were carrying pistols and assembling there armed?
Objection to the word Pistols
Q: Sheriff, you did say you saw men armed with pistols, did you not
A: Yes sir.
Q: Tell us why you did not arrest them?
A: Well, Mr. Belcher, I didn't feel if I arrested them that I was sufficiently equipped to take them out of these. I didn't want to start something I wasn't able to back up.
Q: You considered yourself unable to back it up?
Objection.
Sustained.
Q: Do you know about what time these men marched out of Lens Creek in reference to the time Mother Jones made her speech?
A: Well, shortly afterwards. I don't know the exact date.
Q: Do you know in what direction they went from there?
A: Only from I have been told.
CROSS EXAMINATION, questions by MR. TOWNSEND
Q: Sheriff, I believe you said you heard Mr. Mooney speak on the Capitol grounds at the time they had the assembly of people there, can you recall anything he said?
A: No, I don't think I can, Mr. Townsend.
Q: Did he say anything, to the best of your recollection, that would incite people to arise to violence or create the mob spirit?
A: Not that I heard.
Q: That assembly didn't impress you as being disorderly or unlawful or violent, did it?
Objection.
Sustained.
A: No.
Q: Did see any guns on that occasion, did you?
A: No sir.
Q: Nor pistols?
A: No, I did not.
Q: No violence of any kind or character?
A: No sir.
Q: It was held right in the center of the city of Charleston, about as near as you could place it, wasn't it?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Police officers in uniform in close proximity to the people?
A: Yes, I saw Chief Shanock. I met him on the sidewalk.
Q: Do you know what they were doing there?
A: I don't know the purpose of their meeting. Mr. Mooney was making a speech when I passed through.
Q: I believe I understood you to say that the first time you went to Marmet was on Saturday?
A: Yes, I recall it was Saturday.
Q: That was a Saturday in August?
A: Yes.
Q: I would like, if you can, to fix that Saturday with reference to the following: There were four Saturdays in August; One on the 6th - 13th - 20th and 27th, which, would you saw to the best of your recollection, was the Saturday you first went there?
A: Must have been on the 13th.
Q: Do you have any way to determine definitely which Saturday that was?
A: Not at this time, I haven't.
Q: Now, the first occasion that you went to Lens Creek, did you encounter the guards?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: And you first encountered them at the bridge going up Lens Creek?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you, on that occasion, encounter the three guard lines you have described.
A: Yes.
Q: And they told you they were looking for moonshine liquor?
A: No, they told me the purpose of the guards was to keep anyone from getting in there with moonshine whiskey.
Q: They told you the purpose of their guards was to keep anyone from coming into the assembly with moonshine whiskey?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Now, from that time on, I understood you to say you revisited those camps frequently, about every day until they marched away, is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know about when they marched away?
A: It was about the latter part of August of the first of September along there sometime that they left.
Q: You don't undertake to fix the date?
A: I won't now.
Q: I believe you said you remember something about Mother Jones's speech, but you didn't hear it?
A: I didn't hear it, no.
Q: Were you at the camp on the day that speech was made?
A: Yes, I was up there, I think, a couple of times that day, not at the time she was there.
Q: Did you see her there?
A: No.
Q: How long after that, if you can fix the date, was it that those men went away?
A: Probably a day or so afterwards.
Q: On each of the trip you made there, you naturally talked to some of these people?
A: Yes.
Q: You heard them discussing the purpose of the assembly?
A: Yes.
Q: And where they were going and why they were going?
A: Yes sir.
Q: If I understood you correctly, you said they were complaining about the conditions in Logan and Mingo counties?
A: Yes.
Q: Complaining about some of their prisoners being jailed?
A: Yes.
Q: Said they were going over to Mingo to release the prisoners?
A: I heard some of them make that remark. I don't know what time it was I was up there that I heard it, but I heard it made.
Q: To remedy the situation existing in those two counties?
A: That was about the substance of their conversation with me.
Q: What situation did you understand existed in Logan county that they wanted to remedy?
A: Well, the guard system they complained of to me.
Q: Do you know Mr. Blizzard here?
A: Yes.
Q. Did you see him there.
A: I did not.
Q: Never did see him during any of your trips?
A: No.
Q: I want to ask you a little about that assemblage. Did those men have on uniforms?
A: No. I did see some Ex - soldiers in the assembly that were dressed in uniform.
Q: They were dressed as ordinary citizens are dressed in a community, were they not?
A: Yes.
Q: Some of them had rifles, some shot guns, and some pistols?
A: Yes.
Q: No uniformity in their firearms?
A: None whatever.
Q: See any tents?
A: No, I don't believe I saw any tents.
Q: See any regularly established mess houses?
A: No sir.
Q: See any flags?
A: I did not.
Q: Did you see any camp fires?
A: I believe I did see a camp fire or two.
Q: Fire or two?
A: Yes, up toward the far end of their camp.
Q: While you were there during your various trips, from the time they come until they went away, did you see them drilling?
A: No, never saw anything like that.
Q: Did anyone particularly appear to be in command?
A: No sir.
Q: Did you see any of these people salute anybody else as a recognition of superior office?
A: No sir. In fact, I inquired who their leader was. I couldn't get that information.
Q: They didn't know?
Objection.
Question is withdrawn.
Q: You didn't find out?
A: No sir.
Q: After that assembly marched away, sheriff, did you have any information that another assembly was gathering there later?
A: Yes sir, I did.
Q: Did you investigate that?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you determine whether or not there was a second assembly there?
A: I called Mr. Mooney, I believe it was, after I heard that there was to be a second assembly and asked him about it, and he didn't seem to know anything about it.
Q: He didn't know anything about it?
A: No, he told me he would investigate it, and if he found it to be true, he would let me know.
Q: Did you also about that time talk to Mr. Petry, Vice President, about the report?
A: I believe I did.
Q: Did you make any statement to him in regard to it, or he to you?
A: I don't recall the conversation or any statement he might have made to me.
Objection.
Q: Did you visit Marmet after the first assembly left?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you find any second assembly?
A: I did not.
Q: You don't remember the date you visited there, do you?
A: Well, it was I believe the next day after it was reported to me they had left up there that I went back.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
Q: In answer to a question propounded to you by Mr. Townsend, you said you could not get the information as to who the leaders of the miners was on the ground. Did you have any difficulty in getting information from the men there as to their leaders?
A: I never was able to get it.
Q: Those men you talked to of the armed assembly, did they appear eager to give you information?
A: No, I could scarcely get any information from them.
Q: At the times you went in there, did anyone else accompany you on any of these occasions you testified to the jury?
A: I had one man with me.
Q: Who was he?
A: Mr. Newcomber, Deputy Sheriff.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION, questions by MR. TOWNSEND
Q: You don't know whether or not they ever had a leader, do you?
A: I do not.
And further said deponent saith not.