Charles T. Smart
(transcriber may have made spelling and punctuation changes)
Witness Maj. Charles T. Smart
DIRECT EXAMINATION
By Mr. Belcher.
Q: What is your name?
A: Charles T. Smart.
Q: Are you connected with the United States Army?
A: Yes sir. I am a Major in the United States Army.
Q: Where are you now stationed Major?
A: Lewisville, Ky.
Q: Were you in West Va during the later part of the month of August 1921?
A: I believe it was the early part of September.
Q: Why did you go there, Major?
A: At that time, I was in the 19th Infantry. That regiment was ordered into the coal fields of W. Va on account of some march being made by the miners at that time.
Q: To what point in W. Va. did you go?
A: The 19th Infantry went to Madison.
Q: On what day did you reach Madison?
A: The morning of Sept 3rd about daylight.
Q: Did you stop at Madison on that occasion?
A: The balance of the regiment stopped at Madison. I was placed in command of a detachment of troops which had arrived a few hours earlier from Fort Thomas, Ky, near Cincinnati and went up the valley with those troops.
Q: On what day was that?
A: The morning of the 3rd.
Q: Did you receive any information while at Madison as to the situation in Logan County at the fighting front?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: From whom did you receive that information?
A: From Col. Ford and Col. Martin.
Q: Did you receive any information from anyone else or anyone connected with the United Mine Workers.
A: Mr. Blizzard went up from Madison to Sharpless on the train with me.
Q: Did you have any conversation with him on that occasion?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What information if any did you receive from him as to the location of the fighting force over there?
A: I learned that these miners were defending a line from above Blair down towards Jeffries, back of those towns.
Q: Please state to the Jury just what Mr. Blizzard said to you on that occasion in reference to this fighting there going on since you came Major?
Objection.
Overruled.
Exception.
A: I don't remember any exact words that Mr. Blizzard used to me at that time, but the impression I received from my conversation with Mr. Blizzard was that he was in close touch with these miners who were on the fighting line and in supplying of these troops.
Motion to strike out.
Overruled.
Exception.
Q: How far did Mr. Blizzard go with you on that occasion?
A: He went with me to Sharples.
Q: From what point?
A: From Madison.
Q: At what time did you arrive at Sharples that morning?
A: I suppose about six o'clock.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: We disembarked from the train at Sharples.
Q: Did you see Mr. Blizzard after your troops disembarked from the train.
A: I talked with him after getting off the train.
Q: What was Mr. Blizzard doing there on that occasion?
A: Blizzard and I were talking as to getting the miners to turn in their arms and ammunition. I had tried to get in touch with the armed men, there were several in sight, and had had very little success in getting any arms or ammunition turned in, so I spoke to Mr. Blizzard and told him that if he had any influence with these miners I would like to have him give them the information that if they would turn in their arms and ammunition I would see that peace and quiet was restored and would allow the miners to return down River Valley on the train on which he had come up. Blizzard then told me that he supposed a good many of the guns revolvers and ammunition had been hidden back up in the hills back of Sharples, but that if we would wait awhile he though[t] that something could be done to get the arms turned in. So he left me then. In a few minutes, the men began turning in their guns. They first went back from Sharples over the bridge over the Creek unarmed and in about ten or fifteen minutes they began coming back with guns and turning them in to me. We accepted them and then the men got on the train and were sent down to Madison and taken out of the Valley.
Q: Do you know whether any army officers had preceded you to the town of Madison or not?
A: Capt Wilson and Capt. Dixon with troops from Fort Thomas had arrived there during the night, and I joined them, and they accompanied me to Sharples.
Q: Did you converse with anyone else at Sharples other than Mr. Blizzard as to what you wanted done at that time?
A: Yes, sir there were four reporters came and asked me if they could go up on the train with us, and with Col. Martins consent they went with us as far as Sharples, but outside of them I do not remember having any conversation as to the situation with any outside people.
Q: Is that the man you talked to there?
A: Thats Blizzard, yes sir.
Q: Who seemed to be in authority there at the time you got in, Major, of this armed force?
A: Where was that.
Q: At Sharples?
Objection
The Court -- I suppose you mean the word seemed
Overruled
A: I consider Blizzard was the man that had more authority than anyone in that vicinity, and that was the reason I went to him.
Motion to strike out
Answer stricken from the record.
The Court - The question was - who appeared to be in authority.
A: Mr. Blizzard appeared to be in authority and that was why I went to him.
Q: Did you get in touch with the armed forces through the defending Blizzard?
A: I certainly did.
Q: I will ask you whether or not so far as you know you observed where the orders given by Blizzard to the men on the ground were obeyed or not.
Objection.
Question withdrawn.
Q: Did you hear any orders given by Mr. Blizzard on that occasion to any of the armed force there.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Please state whether or not they were obeyed by those men to whom they were given?
A: Yes sir they were obeyed without question apparently.
Q: I will ask you if you know whether there was any fighting in the mountains there after you first got into Sharples?
A: As commanding Officer of the troops in the Valley from Madison towards the head of the Coal River Valley reports were brought to me of all the activities in that vicinity, and the only fighting that we had any actual reports of were the activities of aeroplanes [airplanes] on the afternoon of the 3rd.
Q: What period of time was given by these men going out from the mountain after you reached Sharples?
A: They took out one load on the morning of the 3rd and on the morning of the 4th another detail of troops were sent to Blair.
Q: Do you know whether or not any armed miners left Blair before the troops went in?
A: I believe they did. In fact, I saw several going down the road from the direction of Blair mountain.
Q: Did you go to Blair after you stopped off at Sharples?
A: I stayed at Sharples and went to Blair on the 4th.
Q: What was the situation at Blair?
A: Practically the same as at Sharples the morning before. The miners troops were there armed and were receiving rations from the school house, the headquarters apparently were located there. Rations were being issued to the miners, and they had a hospital or infirmary there where they were two or three lady nurses in uniform and one or two sick.
Q: Did you while there observe whether or not there was any organization of the miners, I mean along military lines?
A: There appeared to be good organization because the men came from the hills, the fighting line, and were in turn relieved by men from the headquarters, where they received their rations and rest and then again the issuing of rations seemed to be done in quite a well organized manner.
Q: How far is it from Sharples to Blair?
A: I guess about six miles, something like that.
Q: Major - about what was the length of the fighting line between the Logan forces and the armed forces or miners, if you know?
A: I don't remember the distance in miles. I would say the line extended from about Blair down in the direction of Jeffries.
Q: From your knowledge and observation of that situation there what estimate do you make of the number being engaged on the miners side of the fighting?
A: I would say there were over 2500 men actually involved, and probably a thousand or more that were not actively fighting but were helping in the supplies and securing replacements.
Q: Was there any fighting or shooting after you reached Blair on that morning of the 4th?
A: No sir.
Q: I will ask you whether or not while there you observed any outposts of the miners?
A: No, sir.
Q: Major - how long if you remember did the troops remain there?
A: I was in the coal River Valley just about a month.
Q: About what number of guns were surrendered or turned over there?
A: To the troops under my command there were between two hundred and fifty and three hundred guns and revolvers.
Q: What kind of guns were they?
A: There were hardly any two alike, of every make that I have ever seen or heard of.
Q: Do you know where those guns are now?
A: I turned them over to Col Martin. He was in charge at Madison and disposed of them. I had nothing to do with them after turning them over to him.
Q: Was he connected to the United States Army?
A: He was the commanding officer of the 19th Infantry.
CROSS EXAMINATION
By Mr. Houston
Q: Major you say you are located at Louisville, Ky at the present time?
A: Yes, sir I am stationed there.
Q: Where were you stationed during the month of August and Sept. of last year?
A: Chillicothe, Ohio, Camp Sherman
Q: From whom did you first get your orders to enter the West Va. coal fields?
A: Orders were received at Camp Sherman. I received my orders from The Commanding Officer.
Q: Did you command the first contingent of solders that went into Boone County?
A: I went as far as Madison under the command of Col. Martin. From there I was sent with my troops from Fort Thomas to Sharples.
Q: So you were with the first contingent of Federal troops that reached the town of Sharples?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did I understand you correctly to say you reached the town of Madison about midnight on Sept 3rd?
A: No daylight on Sept. 3rd.
Q: How did you go into Madison from St. Albans, by train.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Was it a regular train or did you know?
A: It was a special train, we came from Camp Sherman on this train.
Q: It was carrying troops, was it?
A: Yes, sir to Madison.
Q: And you stopped in the town of Madison?
A: Just long enough to change trains.
Q: How long did you stay there that day?
A: Probably an half hour.
Q: What time did you proceed from the town of Madison to Sharples?
A: It was along about four-thirty or five o'clock in the morning when we left.
Q: That would be on what day?
A: The morning of the 3rd.
Q: When you reached the town of Madison did you get in communication with anyone.
A: No, sir Col. Martin was with me and he was in charge of the troops. I was placed in command of other troops already there. They were on a different train and I transferred my baggage to that train, and after transferring a few animals we proceeded to Sharples.
Q: Did you have any conversation with any of the civilians in Madison?
A: No none except Blizzard.
Q: When did you first meet Blizzard?
A: At Madison.
Q: That was the early morning?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How did you come in contact with Blizzard?
A: Col. Martin introduced me to Blizzard.
Q: He told you who he was did he?
A: Yes, sir said he was President of the sub-division or something of the United Mine Workers.
Q: And Mr. Blizzard proceeded with you from Madison to the town of Sharples?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What time did you reach the town of Sharples?
A: I don't remember. It was sometime before breakfast, we unloaded and had breakfast about ten-thirty.
Q: Do you recall whether Mr. Blizzard said anything to you that morning about having made a trip up there the evening before at the instance of Capt. Wilson?
A: No, sir.
Q: You didn't learn about that?
A: I don't remember, he may have told me.
Q: Do you recall whether you learned at any time after that that Mr. Blizzard had been up there the evening before and had come back early on the morning you met him at the instance of Capt. Wilson?
A: No.
Q: Now you say that Mr. Blizzard seemed to know a good deal about that. It was your information was it not that the bulk of the men who were engaged in this march were members of the United Mine Workers?
A: Yes, sir that is my understanding.
Q: And that Mr. Blizzard was President of that district or sub-district, you learned that, didn't you?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And it was that to which you attributed his authority, was it not?
A: He seemed to know every man that I spoke of.
Q: He seemed to use his influence on that trip to get those men to go back?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And when he requested those men to turn in their arms they consented?
A: Very prom[p]tly when he spoke to them.
Q: You were not known to those men were you?
A: I had on my uniform.
Q: But you were not known to them personally?
A: That would not make any difference.
Q: And you don't know whether these men knew you had on a Federal, State or State Police uniform?
A: State or State Police.
Q: Yes, State or State Police?
A: I don't believe there was any doubt in any of their minds that I was anything but a federal officer.
Q: You think they knew that?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did you order them to lay down their arms.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And they seemed reluctant to do so?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did they convey to you any reason for that reluctance?
A: They said they were afraid they would not get them back and it would all the State deputies to come down there and do what they pleased without them having any means to stop them.
Q: They seemed a little apprehensive of certain persons over the m[o]untain, didn't they?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: They wanted to protect themselves?
A: That was the prevailing opinion.
Q: And you didn't attribute their reluctance to turning in their arms to any hostility to you did you?
A: I explained to them that I was a federal officer and would protect them.
Q: And after you explain this to Mr. Blizzard and he requested them to turn in their arms they complied did they not?
A: As soon as Mr. Blizzard explained this to them they turned in their arms, but not when I asked them to do it.
Q: They seemed to place a little more confidence in his statements according to your observation?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: After you assured them of protection, did they surrender their arms?
A: No, not until Mr. Blizzard spoke to them.
Q: They seemed to place more confidence in his statement than they did in yours because he knew everyone there, did they not?
A: Yes.
Q: How long did you remain at Jeffries?
A: I left there early the following morning, and went to Blair on a trip and came back and stayed at Sharples another day, and then went to Clothier and made headquarters there for the entire Coal River section. Colonel Martin left and I was placed in charge.
Q: Did you go as far as Blair?
A: Yes.
Q: What day did you go there?
A: On the 4th.
Q: That would be the day after you first arrived in Madison?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall placing a lieutenant of the Federal army with ten men, who were accompanied by Mr. Blizzard, on the train and sending them to Blair to try to get the men to come back?
A: When do you mean?
Q: I mean on Sept. 3rd, after you reached Sharpless - the same train you came in on?
A: I may have, but I do not remember that because I sent troops to Blair in the afternoon of the third, but whether Blizzard was with them I do not remember.
Q: You did not go on that t[r]ip yourself, did you?
A: No. Of course, I went with some of the troops to Blair on that day.
Q: Did not these men come back and report to you that the men would not come into the town - that they were afraid to come?
A: The men I sent to Blair came back with a report concerning the air planes that were reported to be in the town of Blair.
Q: Did you notice any Federal planes there during your visit?
A: No.
Q: Do you know whether any Federal planes were in that neighborhood at that time?
A: No.
Q: After this first trip was made from Sharpless to Blair, how long was it before you went there personally?
A: Very early the following morning, the 4th of September.
Q: When did you last see Blizzard on these trips?
A: I saw him at Clothier some time after the excitement was all over. He came in on the train and I saw him at the station.
Q: Do you remember the day?
A: No, I do not.
Q: That was several days after this time, was it not?
A: Yes, a week or ten days after the first trouble
Q: It was after the march was all over, was it not?
A: Yes.
Q: You don't remember seeing him on the evening of Sept. 3rd boarding a train going toward Madison, do you?
A: He may have been there, but I do not recall it
Q: I believe you were asked about a report coming to you while there about thing that had happened. Did you receive a report of two miners being killed at Beech Creek near Sharpless?
A: Yes.
Q: You don't know the date do you?
A: I believe it was the 3rd or 4th of September.
Q: Was it not that incident that seemed to cause so much anxiety among the men?
A: There was considerable nervousness displayed by all the people in that vicinity for the first few days, and after that things quieted down to practically a normal condition.
Q: I understood you to say you net some persons in Sharpless that you understood to be newspaper correspondent - is that correct?
A: I met them at Madison.
Q: And they went with you to Sharpless?
A: Yes.
Q: What were their names?
A: On was named Jacobs, and then there was one names Sharp, and there was one whose name I think was Miss Morris.
Q: Do you recall the fourth one?
A: No, I don't remember that now.
Q: Was it Burnside?
A: I don't remember.
Q: Was it Shields?
A: I have seen one of them here to day, but I don't know whether it is Shields or Jacobs.
Q: Do you know what became of these people?
A: Yes. They went on up Beech creek and we did not see any more of them, so I sent a party out to find them and they came back after a long search and brought back with them a raincoat and a Corona typewriter and some other things that belonged to the newspaper people that they had found there at the head of Beech creek[.] Later on I received a letter from one of them asking me to send on the typewriter, and from another one asking for the raincoat, that they said they had left there when they have been captured by the miners, or had been captured by someone, and that they had been searched and that they had gone on over to Logan instead of coming back
Q: Did they state whether they went over there or were captured and taken over there?
A: I believe they were forced to go with the men who captured them.
Q: The miners were not taking anyone into Logan Court House, were they?
A: I don't know
Q: From your information, union miners did not go to Logan Court house at that time, did they?
A: No. They were scattered along the ridge all the way from Sharpless to Blair.
Q: Did the Federal troops there under your command, ever shoot any that you know of?
A: No.
Q. As a matter of fact, at the time you were on Coal River with these troops you never heard of the Federal soldiers firing a shot, did you?
A: No.
There was no necessity for it, was there?
A: No.
Q: Did you see any air planes there that were not Federal airplanes?
A: I saw one on the afternoon of the third.
Q: What direction did it come from?
A: I could not say. It seemed to come from toward Blair. I was at Sharpless then.
Q: Did any planes drop anything around there?
A: One dropped a bottle of Acedic acid. I sent there a party of men to investigate the report that they were dropping gas bombs. It was rather rainy weather, and they claimed that the dampness kept the gas close to the ground and that people were being suffocated by it. They investigated these reports and came back with the pieces of a broken bottle of Acedic acid. The bottle had had two streamers tied to it and was dropped from this airplane
Q: Was anyone hurt by the contents of this bottle in any way?
A: No.
Q: Did you hear any bombs being dropped on Hewitt creek?
A: Some were dropped near the camp at Jeffries.
Q: Do you mean the camp of Federal troops?
A: Yes.
Q: These bombs were not dropped by any of the Federal airplanes, were they?
A: I know of no Federal planes that were there.
Q: Did you see and of the bombs that were dropped?
A: Yes.
Q: Describe to the jury how they were made?
A: The one dropped up there near the camp at Jeffries, that was dropped there while they were making camp, was made out of what was apparently a piece of steam pipe, with a plunger that was so arranged that this plunger would strike the ground first and would in that way be driven into some composition inside of it, and this was supposed to explode the bomb, but this one fell in soft ground and did not explode
Q: If it had exploded, it would have done some damage in that neighborhood, would it not.
A: I have no knowledge of what it would have done. I am simple stating what it did.
Objection.
Objection sustained.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BELCHER.
Q: No effort was made, was there, to drop any bombs on the Federal troops?
A: No, we were not disturbed by any bombs.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON.
Q: There was no effort made to prevent them from going on the Federal soldiers, was there, if they fell close enough?
A: Those I mentioned dropped within 200 yards of where we were camping.
Q: Do you know where Gen. Bandholtz is now?
A: I think he is stationed in Washington.
Q: You don't know whether he is there at present, or not, do you?
A: No.
Q: Do you know where Captain Wilson is now?
A: No.
Witness is dismissed with the understanding that he will return later if desired.